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Old 08-04-2008, 07:54 AM   #61
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Since Mark runs for SMC, I can only assume they are our cells. However, Victor and Jilles also run for SMC and I did not hear if they had issues. I have not spoken to any of these guys yet so I can only speculate what happened.
Our manufacturer makes 2 versions of the Ener-G sub-C cell. For the US market, there is a longer version that is identified with a white colored washer on the positive end of the cell. The shorter European version has a black washer on the positive end of the cell. We have run numerous races that were EFRA sanctioned in the past with no issues. Why Marc had problems and Victor didn't is puzzling to me. We certainly did not intentionally try to manipulate the rules. These guys are perfectly capable of winning no matter what batteries are in the car. It serves no purpose for us to try to run an illegal battery at ANY event, let alone such an important race with obviously tight scrutiny.
We worked extremely hard to get our cells legalized for EFRA. So for this to happen is very disappointing. We do not check every cell that passes through here for length. We assume that when we get a cell with black washers that they are all EFRA legal. We spot check each batch, but to inspect every cell is not practical. We do notice variations in can length within a batch, but this variation is always within the required specs. Until we find out more details I can only speculate what happened.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:39 AM   #62
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I spotted this:

1. (2.) Marc Rheinard (D) - Tamiya TRF-416 / LRP Sphere TC / SpeedPassion / Boomerang EP4600
2. (3.) Viktor Wilck (S) - Tamiya TRF-416 / LRP Sphere TC / SpeedPassion / Boomerang EP4600

And pictures shows that both Marc and Wilck used EP4600 cells.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:01 AM   #63
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Why Marc had problems and Victor didn't is puzzling to me.
According to RedRC both Viktor and Marc were checked after the 2nd final. Both were beyond the limit while the batteries were still hot and they apparantly waited for them to cool down to recheck. Viktor's passed (I assume barely) while Marc's did not (again I assume barely). RedRC does not provide info on other drivers having been checked and whether or not their cels were close to or over the limit either when hot or after cooling down at any point during the competition.

It may well be that this only made the headlines because it delayed Marc getting a well deserved Euro title and not that he was the only one. But like you say, we can only speculate at the moment.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:20 PM   #64
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How come it has only one S400 Serpent?
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:29 PM   #65
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How come it has only one S400 Serpent?
hmm,maybe because only 1 driver showed up with a serpent????
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:00 PM   #66
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Anyone know offhand if a T2 '08 will fit lipos better than an S400 without mods?
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:27 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv View Post
According to RedRC both Viktor and Marc were checked after the 2nd final. Both were beyond the limit while the batteries were still hot and they apparantly waited for them to cool down to recheck. Viktor's passed (I assume barely) while Marc's did not (again I assume barely). RedRC does not provide info on other drivers having been checked and whether or not their cels were close to or over the limit either when hot or after cooling down at any point during the competition.

It may well be that this only made the headlines because it delayed Marc getting a well deserved Euro title and not that he was the only one. But like you say, we can only speculate at the moment.
Only one cell in Marcs pack was too big, very unlucky.

Lots of drivers were checked, personally mine were checked three times during the race, I used Orion SHO's and there was no size problem.

I know of another driver who had his Ener-G cells measued both hot and cool and they were failed too....
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:38 PM   #68
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Not quite, Steve, but a good point...

The European Federation (EFRA) changed the class from 6-cell to 5-cell in order to prevent the problems with tyre wear and improve motor reliability. It worked, in spades! Mod is now enjoying a huge renaissance in Europe, because the cars are driveable, and the reliability is high. Because of the 5-cell limit, LiPo plays no role, and because of the 5-cell limit, weight is down and that helps tyre wear and reliability. It's a virtuous circle...

Manufacturers want a healthy class to sell into, so they've done their bit to provide cars that work with the new Rules. That hasn't made things any less competitive, but because anyone can get a Mod car to go, it's done wonders for participation - everyone wins!

The impression we get over here is that the US is set against 5-cell, and that reflects in the IFMAR decision to run 6-cell at this year's Worlds. In Italy 2006, there were serious problems with speedos and motors, and that will be worse in the heat of Thailand. Japan run 4-cell, Europe runs 5-cell and both have high participation. US runs 6-cell...

For Stock classes (very popular in US compared to Europe) 6-cell seems OK, but it is very interesting to see the 12th and World GT entries at the IIC - large entry and using 4-cell!

There is a simple explanation to why modified is not popular in the U.S. - American drivers are simply not good enough.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:53 PM   #69
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Mod seems to be popular in Florida but they have pretty decent size tracks there......
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:38 PM   #70
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There is a simple explanation to why modified is not popular in the U.S. - American drivers are simply not good enough.
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:14 PM   #71
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there are american drivers who want to go to mod, but just dont have the support to do it

Companies shouldnt give a 100% deals to any driver unless he runs Mod, If "mr stock pro" already has a full ride+traval why on earth would he run mod?
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:16 PM   #72
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there are american drivers who want to go to mod, but just dont have the support to do it
That's the issue, I can still run stock with a C027 and 4300's, but to get the motor/batteries that the pro drivers use would cost me several hundred dollars out of pocket, if not a couple thousand; besides, to run at those speeds takes practice, which most of us don't have enough time to do. I've seen races where one pro mod driver outpulls another in the straight by a large margin, so even within that class there's a desparity with equipment. You can make a lot more mistakes and recover with a faster motor than everyone else has..., just try running around the track with a 19T while everyone is running 27T if you don't believe me. Besides, there isn't much of a payoff for anyone in the US to turn pro/run mod..., there aren't any tv or nike sponsorships, there's only local and some national rep at stake. Take a look at some of the salaries for college graduates and you'll have to agree that most Americans would rather spend the best years of their youth (and the thousands they'd spend on rc) in school to make a career in something that'll make them enough money to be able to run mod, if they want to. If the sponsored drivers can turn their rc skills into a job with the rc companies, then more power to 'em. I've been following the hobby for a long time and see that many drivers have. I'm sure that it's made their lives better by doing so.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:47 PM   #73
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By not having the support I meant that we just cant afford it. the cost of tires,speedo's, the extreme wear and tear.

factory drivers equipment isnt much, if any better than what on the hobby shop shelves
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:53 PM   #74
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Brushless motors makes it easy to move to mod which i'm about to do this weekend.....
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:10 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyS View Post
That's the issue, I can still run stock with a C027 and 4300's, but to get the motor/batteries that the pro drivers use would cost me several hundred dollars out of pocket, if not a couple thousand; besides, to run at those speeds takes practice, which most of us don't have enough time to do. I've seen races where one pro mod driver outpulls another in the straight by a large margin, so even within that class there's a desparity with equipment. You can make a lot more mistakes and recover with a faster motor than everyone else has..., just try running around the track with a 19T while everyone is running 27T if you don't believe me. Besides, there isn't much of a payoff for anyone in the US to turn pro/run mod..., there aren't any tv or nike sponsorships, there's only local and some national rep at stake. Take a look at some of the salaries for college graduates and you'll have to agree that most Americans would rather spend the best years of their youth (and the thousands they'd spend on rc) in school to make a career in something that'll make them enough money to be able to run mod, if they want to. If the sponsored drivers can turn their rc skills into a job with the rc companies, then more power to 'em. I've been following the hobby for a long time and see that many drivers have. I'm sure that it's made their lives better by doing so.
Bobby, good points, I agree. The really tough question is, why is mod so dead in North America and so popular everywhere else in the world? I don't think any of your points shed light on that.
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