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Old 07-25-2008, 02:48 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
I donít see how it was rebutted or how you can change physics.

You are talking about two entirely different things. Slowing the cars down will do everything that you think taking weight out of the cars will do. So why not start a thread about slowing the cars down....that is what really needs to happen IMO. .
Then it is agreed, that we have TOO much motor and battery in our cars for the lower speed classes.


I am not changing physics either. If a 17.5 motor on a 5000 LiPO give an average of 130watts with the current weight limits and goes 25mph on the straights and does 15 second laps, how much does a 21.5/LiPO car need to weigh to go the same speeds putting out 85watt average? 300 grams lighter?
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:09 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
This is a frustrating thread.

Most TCs are underweight with 6-cell NiMh so the fact you have to add ballast or that it is ugly is not a good argument because you have to do it anyway regardless of the battery you use.
Thing is Rick, you say that TC's are lighter with 6 cells before you start regardless to what cells you use, but if a car is lighter before the then now limit of 1500 grams, then with lipo you are adding already 220 grams to make up for the difference between lipo and NIMS, then you have to add MORE to the already light weight car, this could add upto maybe 300 grams of ugly, unsightly, unwanted ballast/lead whatever you use.

Ive made a Lipo Weight Plate, trouble is, not everyone one is able to make one (not trying to blow me own trumpet here btw) and its the pure hassle of HAVING to make something so the car is balanced properly, it took numerous cardboard templates before I decided upon the version I have now, and still want to make it a little better, as I don't want to risk just sticking the lead on with Cyano in case of them coming off, I will drill and tap the plate and lead weights so as to be able to screw the lead on. Its just why do we have to go through this hassle, now we have new cell technology for our TC's and be penalized with all this hassle of weighting the car to 1500 grams
Cheers Malc
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Lowering the weight of Touring Cars that use lipo-tc-clone-lipo-plate-006.jpg   Lowering the weight of Touring Cars that use lipo-tc-clone-lipo-plate-010.jpg  
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:29 AM   #78
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Malc,

Your right we should be looking at lowering the weight limit down to 1400grs
for 6 cell/Lipo racing.
Last winter had to add 40grs while running 6 cells to bring it up to weight on
a standard T2' 008.

Manufacturers wont need to lighten their cars as the weight we will reduce
is from the Lipo packs themselves.

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Old 07-26-2008, 11:45 AM   #79
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I like the idea of lower weight. In 1/12th scale I couldn't get my kit low enough to make the weight.
Seems to be a double standard.? I say make the limit so low people will add weight just to make it handle well.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:56 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by gijoe64 View Post
Aren't TC light enough? Man I just wish manufactures make a chassi for lipo's with weighted battery tray! Solved! You take weight off the TC and parts will fly
Here is one argument against the Naysayers, with lighter cars, you could use smaller lipo mah packs saving money for the racer (something we need). I wouldn't argue tires however, as all that will happen is softer compounds will come out to take advantage of the lighter cars.
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Old 07-26-2008, 02:02 PM   #81
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Ummmm if the car is lighter it will be moving faster given the same HP so when it crashes it will now be going faster then it was before. The increased speed by the reduction in weight has to factor in at some point. Check out Newton's Second Law....F=MA (Mass X Acceleration = Force) Just because you are going to make something lighter doesnt automatically mean it will break less....you will be going faster so run the math and see which way will have more force when it hits a wall.
Incorrect, Sir.

Physics state that given the same amount of force(HP), an object of lighter weight will ACCELERATE quicker but retain the same resultant speed. The same can be said for Newton's second law of motion where an object of lighter weight will DEcelerate quicker aswell.

CF and other chassis components still retains the same strength factor regardless of the mass differences of each electronic component.

Conservation of inertia and angular momentum become more apparent with less weight aswell.

The only time you get an increase in SPEED (S=d/t) is when you physically change the gearing ratios. you cannot increase it with lighter weight.


"F = ma: the net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration."

S=d/t: speed equals distance divided by time.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:42 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
Do any of you complaining about having to 'add ugly weight and penalize technology' go to national level events? If so, what events have you gone to, and what events are you attending this year?
I respectfully disagree with you... National organized racing makes up a small fraction of the overall body of racers or weekend club warriors. me myself I just club race so all I have to do is balance the car and not worry about trying to hit the oudated 53 oz mark. we need to just get back to having club fun
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Old 07-26-2008, 07:33 PM   #83
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I respectfully disagree with you... National organized racing makes up a small fraction of the overall body of racers or weekend club warriors. me myself I just club race so all I have to do is balance the car and not worry about trying to hit the oudated 53 oz mark. we need to just get back to having club fun
You are a man after my own heart. Club racing and a natl event are totally different. I say run your race and don't stop a club racer from running his own.

I had this battle and lost at our track. I just don't really see the concern on a club night. Took the spirit out of me. The class you race in and with is all that matters.

Club "racing" fun. I went back to dirt where this is still alive.
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:28 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by dawgmeat View Post
I respectfully disagree with you... National organized racing makes up a small fraction of the overall body of racers or weekend club warriors. me myself I just club race so all I have to do is balance the car and not worry about trying to hit the oudated 53 oz mark. we need to just get back to having club fun
What do you disagree with? I asked a question. Nobody answered my question. I simply asked; How many people complaining that we need to lower weight actually attend National events, and what events were they or will they be within a year from today?
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:35 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Sabin View Post
Incorrect, Sir.

Physics state that given the same amount of force(HP), an object of lighter weight will ACCELERATE quicker but retain the same resultant speed. The same can be said for Newton's second law of motion where an object of lighter weight will DEcelerate quicker aswell.

CF and other chassis components still retains the same strength factor regardless of the mass differences of each electronic component.

Conservation of inertia and angular momentum become more apparent with less weight aswell.

The only time you get an increase in SPEED (S=d/t) is when you physically change the gearing ratios. you cannot increase it with lighter weight.


"F = ma: the net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration."

S=d/t: speed equals distance divided by time.
If all other equations stayed the same, a car that is just made lighter will attain the same top speed, only faster, with less potential energy. However, without the additional load, the power plant in the car along with the power source is now capable of producing greater speed with a gear change. No racer in their right mind would skip that invitation. Now you have a lighter chassis that is traveling at greater speed with the same potential to break parts just as easily or easier at the heavier weight. I believe that Newton's law will support this hypothesis.
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:24 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
If all other equations stayed the same, a car that is just made lighter will attain the same top speed, only faster, with less potential energy. However, without the additional load, the power plant in the car along with the power source is now capable of producing greater speed with a gear change. No racer in their right mind would skip that invitation. Now you have a lighter chassis that is traveling at greater speed with the same potential to break parts just as easily or easier at the heavier weight. I believe that Newton's law will support this hypothesis.
I don't know wether or not you're disagreeing with me, because you said the exact same thing I did.

A car of lighter weight will achieve it's top speed quicker than a car of heavier weight given the same gearing.

it will SEEM faster, but when the motor itself hits the maximum rpm at load, it will have achieved it's highest possible speed.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:57 AM   #87
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I did agree with what you said. However, it doesn't stop there. Now that the chassis is lighter, the motor will be under geared due to the decreased weight. This will allow for a change in gear. This will allow the car to go faster. Not only will the car accelerate faster, it will then have a faster top speed. This is why I stated earlier that not all things are being taken into consideration in that equation; lighter cars will solve all mankind's problems.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:17 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
What do you disagree with? I asked a question. Nobody answered my question. I simply asked; How many people complaining that we need to lower weight actually attend National events, and what events were they or will they be within a year from today?
To answer your question I nave been to 2 National events Roar 2005 Carpet 2007 birds and I will be attending 2009 birds, I'm in the Navy so I attend we I can. This is my opinion but once the weight is lowered you might see a jump in attendance at a national event from all the racers run nothing but lipo, the only racers still running Nimh batteries are the Sponsored guys, my .2$
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:07 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by TheCoolCanFanMan View Post

Ive made a Lipo Weight Plate, trouble is, not everyone one is able to make one (not trying to blow me own trumpet here btw) and its the pure hassle of HAVING to make something so the car is balanced properly, it took numerous cardboard templates before I decided upon the version I have now, and still want to make it a little better, as I don't want to risk just sticking the lead on with Cyano in case of them coming off, I will drill and tap the plate and lead weights so as to be able to screw the lead on. Its just why do we have to go through this hassle, now we have new cell technology for our TC's and be penalized with all this hassle of weighting the car to 1500 grams
Cheers Malc
This is simply not the case. I designed marketed and have sold hundereds of stainless steel baseplates and chassis inserts and very nice looking polished and easily adjustable side weights for under $23.00 ea. all over the world. They have been in all the major magazines and websites. These have been run and proven for over 7 months, TQed in the NATS and used by many high profile racers. Battery protection is better then NiMh, will absolutely not EVER come out (when used properly) and they install in under 10 minutes.

You choose to go to all that hassle if you want...but there is a better easier way. Also, lead in the chassis slots will dent and mis-form and eventually move, cnc machined stainless steel will not.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin View Post
Incorrect, Sir.

Physics state that given the same amount of force(HP), an object of lighter weight will ACCELERATE quicker but retain the same resultant speed. The same can be said for Newton's second law of motion where an object of lighter weight will DEcelerate quicker aswell.

CF and other chassis components still retains the same strength factor regardless of the mass differences of each electronic component.

Conservation of inertia and angular momentum become more apparent with less weight aswell.

The only time you get an increase in SPEED (S=d/t) is when you physically change the gearing ratios. you cannot increase it with lighter weight.

"F = ma: the net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration."

S=d/t: speed equals distance divided by time.
Although your math may be correct your logic is not. Yes lighter/heavier cars may be the same speed given enough track to reach top speed. Most impacts are not on the straights, they are in the technical areas in the track, and the lighter and quicker accelerating cars WILL BE GOING FASTER, creating higher impact speeds.
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Last edited by Verndog; 07-27-2008 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:24 PM   #90
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I think this lighter going faster has overlooked a critical function of "Race Classes" and the fact that the motors can be "downgraded" to lower power and the speed.

I am just advocating that the extra mass(weight) is making the hobby cost more. With less mass is less need for power. Power COST MONEY.

Just compare the electronic gear from a mini setup to a 1:10 setup. What is the difference in prices for a complete setup? $300 cheaper if buying a the mini electronics, which have more power capibilities than what 1:10 sedan had 10 years ago.
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