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Old 12-28-2008, 03:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Impulse_racer View Post
Why do you need a motor dyno/checker for a BL motor? I maybe wrong but I thought all you can do to a BL motor is adjust the timing, the effects of which can be seen immediately on the track. When I was running brushed stock I would buy 2 or 3 motors, tune them, and throw them on a TurboDyno to see which one was best. Some guys bought more than that because there were big inconsistancies from motor to motor. But I thought BL was supposed to eliminate this madness as well as weekly maintenance, comm lathes, a box full of brushes/armatures, inconsistances between motors, and best of all, cheating. The "black art" of brushed motor tuning was supposed to be a thing of the past as well as "leveling" the playing field. But this thread maybe saying that things are headed back in the direction, buying several motors to find the "best" one. Except the motors are $80 instead of $40 and laptops are replacing comm lathes and brushes. I don't know about the rest of you but this is not what I bought into BL for.
Sorry for the rant.


Impulse,

Not trying to be a jerk or anything but racing is racing, it didn't change with BL or lipo it just evolved a bit. If a racer used to race with 1 brushed motor and 1 battery pack then a racer could still do that with 1 brushless motor and 1 lipo pack. Racers however will still test and tune and buy multiples of the main equipment. There is still a lot of stuff to tune on a BL motor. Rotor size, rotor strength, wire resistance in the can as its used, timing on the motor, timing in the speedo, etc.

Look at the pictures from the IFMAR Worlds, I saw pictures posted that showed Speed Passion and Orion had their motor guys there with there tuning tools ready to go. Maybe a driver felt that his motor wasn't running as well as it could, well this equipment will show whether it was or wasn't. It will compare motors to each other, etc.

Most all long time racers tried in vain to tell all you guys that racing with all this new equipment will not stop any of this stuff, I for one would not want it too either, I enjoy the tuning and racing part of rc. What we should be doing however is make sure that it doesn't get too expensive or complicated for us all to still enjoy, that is what needs to be addressed.

Steve
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:46 PM   #32
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During the brushed days, I saw all sorts of equipment for motors at the track for club races. Lathes, dynos, zappers, brush doohickeys, etc. And the same was true with batteries, with multiple GFX's, equalizing trays, discharge voodoo devices, and so on.

You know what I see now? Guys with a couple of motors, two LiPo's and a charger. I'm the only one that's got anything fancy (rotor strength meter) and that's only to see how they fade over time, not buy up a bunch and look for the best numbers.

My point is, maybe the level of tuning you're talking about is still out there somewhere, but it's not here, and it's not at the big races I've attended, especially with hand-out motors... 'cause they're sealed.

I guess we do warm up our LiPo batteries now, but even that will probably be phased out eventually by the rules, as it should be.

Racing today is nothing like it was a few years ago. It's way better, without all the superfluous crap. Anybody that says otherwise is still butt-hurt over the glorious death of brushed motors and nasty old NiMH.

I realize the equipment like this dyno from SpeedPassion are out there, but show me where it's made one ounce of difference on the track. It's all a bunch of bench racing B.S.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:03 PM   #33
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Adam,

Can I assume your reply was to me? Butt Hurt, that sure is an interesting choice of words. Please show me where I said anything rude. I posted my opinion, same as you. I can asure you that I am NOT BUTT HURT. I have owned and raced RC cars since 1980, I have been sponsored since 1988. I worked for Team Br00d during 2005. I currently own BL motors and BL speedos, I just sold 2 trinty Lipos. Not all of us are haters. I love BL motors. I do not miss cutting comms or soldering a perfect pair of brushes onto a motor for myself or my Br00d customers.

What I was saying was that racing has evolved or changed but it did not get any easier at the higher levels which is what most of us are disscussing on most threads. Do I expect rotor strength testers and complex dynos in the pits at club racing, probably not at least not soon. I hope people realize that most of that stuff is not needed to have a fun club atmosphere. But at a big race it already there so I don't know what your point was to me.

I am on your side basically, but I just wanted to remind everyone that what was posted 2 years ago about how every BL motor will be equal to each other and that everyone will only need one and that they will last forever with zero maintenance has largely been wrong to a point.

Now please insult me again and insult everyone else who doesn't share exactly your opinion.

Your friend,
Steve
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:22 PM   #34
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Steve,

Sorry that was more of a generalized statement than to you specifically. You seem to have a good attitude toward it all. Many of the people that respond to these threads are part of the "I told you so" crowd. They like to pop in every time anything regarding motor or battery technology/tuning comes up, and remind us all of how we'd be right back in the same boat. I find that crowd particularly irritating, because they used the same tired old argument to try and stifle these things from becoming mainstream in the first place.

We're worlds ahead of where we were before, and while there might be a little wiggle room for tuning now, it's dramatically minimized compared to the past. So much so, that it's not hard to question whether it means anything at all.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:28 PM   #35
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Anybody that said all motors and batteries would be exactly equal and require no tuning back in the day were delusional. Truly, though, I think that was a very small minority of ill-informed people. Many of us knew and acknowledged these things would happen, but felt they would mean a whole lot less, and therefore, we'd be better because of it. That was my personal stance all along, and so far, it's been my experience in the real world. Perhaps others see it different.

That said, oiling a bearing once a month and not throwing too much gear at a motor is about as close to zero maintenance as you can get! :-)
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam? View Post
Anybody that said all motors and batteries would be exactly equal and require no tuning back in the day were delusional. Truly, though, I think that was a very small minority of ill-informed people. Many of us knew and acknowledged these things would happen, but felt they would mean a whole lot less, and therefore, we'd be better because of it. That was my personal stance all along, and so far, it's been my experience in the real world. Perhaps others see it different.

That said, oiling a bearing once a month and not throwing too much gear at a motor is about as close to zero maintenance as you can get! :-)
Unfortunately, there were a lot of people who seemed to have this exact idea that all would be right with the world once brushless and lipo got in. Things are MUCH easier now, but we are already seeing 2nd and 3rd generation motors as well as batteries. That being said, racing is better in that you can concentrate on your car and driving vs. building motors and keeping up batteries all day long.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:15 AM   #37
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whats the point of running a BL motor into a motormaster?

a BL motor with no load = false data/output

BUT.. its another story if they will use a true motor dyno.


Id stick with motor temp. and track test..
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:43 AM   #38
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For the average day to day club racer, this sounds like an expensive paperweight to try and look good with / impress people with.

I am planning on going brushless but I dont buy into trying different motors to see which one is better etc etc, just go out and RACE....

Brushed motor dynos could never give an on track performance test of a motor, same for brushless motors and the dynos coming out.

verdict: overhyped and gimmicky...
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:09 AM   #39
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Of course, now that I've gone and said all that, I see shots like this from the Grand Slam race at FastCats, and begin to wonder if I'm out of touch...

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