R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-02-2009, 09:38 PM   #1366
Tech Master
 
240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,115
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtveten View Post
The offset steering block is an old trick used back when many were still trying to get the "hop-up" pivot ball rear end to work. In the end the fastest consistent result was to go back to the o-ring setup with the stock front end. The erratic feeling many find with the car is a result of the lack or rear dampening when using the pivot ball rear end w/o tweak screws.
Looking at the F103GT I see that the offset is built into the front suspension out of the box. (option #53258)
240Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:39 PM   #1367
Tech Elite
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,287
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

havent posted on here for a while, but been reading through the last few posts, so here goes nothin'
As far as the carbon axle goes, I have run the Tamiya ones forever, I have broken 2 or 3, but thats over the course of 15+ years of running 102's and 103's. They are more money, but they are very strong, the ones that broke were 2-3 years old and had alot of indoor running on them
The pivot ball controversy, well there are people that swear up and down on one or the other.
I really want to do some back to back testing to see which is quicker. I never liked the Oring set up because as the orings collapse, it changes the handling. The pivot ball is tricky to set up, but once you get it set up, I think it is more consistent, but thats just my opinion.
The offset blocks are an option, but they are not as bulletproof as the stock uprights. The screws that hold the axles in the uprights bend real easy and ruin the upright. I think those were developed to run out doors with no boards.
The thrust bearing issue is a 2 parter, one it needs to be cleaned spotless, and then the AW grease needs to be applied, although I have run high quality bearing lube on the thrust bearing and gotten a smooth diff out of it, but I dont think the diff action was as good
__________________
I'll hit the brakes he'll go right by
http://f1rclab.com
http://f1rclab.mybigcommerce.com
BP SHADOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 02:26 AM   #1368
Tech Elite
 
Dan the Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Perth, W.A
Posts: 2,006
Trader Rating: 40 (100%+)
Default

Is there a serious difference in performance between the R and the RM, or is a case of a lot of Tamiya bling for not much extra perfromance?

Don't get me wrong, I love my blue bling, but for the difference in price I could get another lipo.
__________________
|--|Hot Bodies Pro 5|-●-|The "F109X"|--|

If you don't have clean bearings, good transmission and a perfect car, trust me when I say this...someone else does.
Dan the Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 06:29 AM   #1369
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,002
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

hi, the price of the r over the rm is worth it. the stiff chassis and a-arms makes a difference.

anyways love the blue bling bling

rccartips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 06:36 AM   #1370
Tech Elite
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,287
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
Is there a serious difference in performance between the R and the RM, or is a case of a lot of Tamiya bling for not much extra perfromance?

Don't get me wrong, I love my blue bling, but for the difference in price I could get another lipo.
Remember, the R is a limited edition commemorative deal. The thing with these 103's is they are competitive in pretty much any level of trim. I have seen guys take almost bone stock chassis and beat up on fully hopped up cars. Even after 15 years of running this chassis, the closer I look, there are many very small details that can make a huge difference in the performance of the car.But I dont think the R has any significant advantage over the RM. I would say that the parts that come with the R are of higher quality than the RM , and everything is in one box instead of hopping up one part at a time. If you look at the cost of an RM , and then add a few hopups to the price of that kit, the R is a pretty good deal for what you can get it for on the street.
I am picking mine up tonight.
__________________
I'll hit the brakes he'll go right by
http://f1rclab.com
http://f1rclab.mybigcommerce.com
BP SHADOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 07:25 AM   #1371
Tech Champion
 
liljohn1064's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Deerfield, WI
Posts: 5,581
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
Remember, the R is a limited edition commemorative deal. The thing with these 103's is they are competitive in pretty much any level of trim. I have seen guys take almost bone stock chassis and beat up on fully hopped up cars. Even after 15 years of running this chassis, the closer I look, there are many very small details that can make a huge difference in the performance of the car.But I dont think the R has any significant advantage over the RM. I would say that the parts that come with the R are of higher quality than the RM , and everything is in one box instead of hopping up one part at a time. If you look at the cost of an RM , and then add a few hopups to the price of that kit, the R is a pretty good deal for what you can get it for on the street.
I am picking mine up tonight.
You got that right! It expensive. I wish I'd waited for the R myself.
__________________
John Higgins former student of The Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driving School. The "Team Principal".
liljohn1064 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 02:40 PM   #1372
Tech Master
 
240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,115
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hanson View Post
I think I figured it out. Thank you to all that offered some suggestions....
Just curious, how did you get it to work out?
240Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 03:04 PM   #1373
Tech Master
 
padailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Council Bluffs, IA
Posts: 1,603
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Well I just got an RM and a fellow racer just got an R. My maiden voyage and his second we ran together and his handled a little better than mine. But he is a better driver and knows how to set pan cars up much better than I do. So that being said my RM was not that far off of his, so even though his is prettier there really wasn't that much difference in performance. If you've got the dough get the R.. if you are a little more budgeted get the RM and upgrade a few things as you go.
__________________
www.hobbyplexraceway.com

Tamiya TRF417X (Lion's Automotive GTR)
Tamiya TRF416X
Tamiya F104W MP6/4 converted to F104X1 (Renault R30)
padailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 03:30 PM   #1374
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
havent posted on here for a while, but been reading through the last few posts, so here goes nothin'
As far as the carbon axle goes, I have run the Tamiya ones forever, I have broken 2 or 3, but thats over the course of 15+ years of running 102's and 103's. They are more money, but they are very strong, the ones that broke were 2-3 years old and had alot of indoor running on them
The pivot ball controversy, well there are people that swear up and down on one or the other.
I really want to do some back to back testing to see which is quicker. I never liked the Oring set up because as the orings collapse, it changes the handling. The pivot ball is tricky to set up, but once you get it set up, I think it is more consistent, but thats just my opinion.
The offset blocks are an option, but they are not as bulletproof as the stock uprights. The screws that hold the axles in the uprights bend real easy and ruin the upright. I think those were developed to run out doors with no boards.
The thrust bearing issue is a 2 parter, one it needs to be cleaned spotless, and then the AW grease needs to be applied, although I have run high quality bearing lube on the thrust bearing and gotten a smooth diff out of it, but I dont think the diff action was as good


Hi, any tips on setting up the pivot ball suspension.

I tried that and I didn't liked it (most probably that I don't know how to set it up).

Could you shed some light. thks
Ben.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 10:30 PM   #1375
Tech Elite
 
BP SHADOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In the LAB paintin' bodies!!!!
Posts: 2,287
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben.C View Post




Hi, any tips on setting up the pivot ball suspension.

I tried that and I didn't liked it (most probably that I don't know how to set it up).

Could you shed some light. thks
Im not going to give specifics, because im still working on my setup.
But I will tell you this.
Back when we ran the rubber tires in TCS I was running alot of roll with the pivot balls. I was running tweak screws, but I did not have them locked down like a 1/12th scale car.
With that said, on foams it is a different game. foams make so much grip that you need to minimize the movement. To me the oring setup creates a kind of binding effect on the t plate. I polish the pivot balls with simichrome polish and a dremel to make sure that the movement is as smooth as possible. I run the tweaks screws set up like a 12th scale, that is locked at the front , free in the rear.
To me the whole secret to hooking these 103's up is to control the motion of the rear pod. In doing this you have 2 functions, the damper and shock. Both essentially dampen, but they control different aspects. The damper post and plates control the side to side motion, and the shock the fore and aft motion.
The object of the game is to keep the tires in contact with the road. Since there is not much compression that occurs with the shock, the rebound is the important motion of the shock. In other words the faster the tires get back in contact with the track, the more control you have. Now there are plenty of guides out there on shock setup, so I wont bore you any more with that. the other thing you can do is control the amount of compression that does occur with the shock. This would generally require a thicker shock oil or minimal openings in the shock piston( also referred to as valving) here is where the balance comes in. Getting the shock to react quickly but still provide good dampening is tricky because they are opposite of each other in behavior.Spring is going to depend on the surface you are running on, but I would stay in the neighborhood of a medium spring, too soft and the chassis will sag and bottom, too stiff and the chassis will buck and bounce. Try to run as little preload on the spring as possible as I believe that preload jacks the weight bias of the chassis to the front wheels and makes the rear end loose. As far as the damper goes, you have 2 aspects there. First is pressure. As far as Tamiya parts go, you have 2 options for damper springs. Again, there is a balance to achieve here, you want to control the side to side motion, but you still need the reaction to get the chassis to rotate. I run the gold springs, and from there I play with the tension on the damper post. Most of the time it is run fairly tight. This starts to limit the amount of side to side motion in conjunction with the tweak screws. The grease you run will keep the damper from binding, but also controls the reaction time of the damper, thinner= faster thicker=slower. That is a personal preference, I tend to fall somewhere in the middle.
The only other settings to work with are front springs and toe.
I would run the stiffest spring (Tamiya black) because it keeps the front end from rolling over on itself, as well as minimizing the wight transfer to the front end. You can get some of the twitchiness out of the car by running 0- a touch of toe in on the front end.
Hope this helps, this is just my way of doing things, someone else could have a setup that is the exact opposite from what I just said, it all depends on how you like to drive.
__________________
I'll hit the brakes he'll go right by
http://f1rclab.com
http://f1rclab.mybigcommerce.com
BP SHADOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2009, 11:31 PM   #1376
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

To add to what BP said, I find that adding screws to the rear pivot as motion stops works well on carpet. I had originally tried a bushing on the dampener post, between the dampener plates to limit the roll, but I guess that it is illegal. The screws work fine, and they are not too hard to set. I actually set them with the bushing still in place as a guide.

For carpet, I have also found that the car should have the washers between the t plate and the pivot ball removed. This will raise the t bar and give better rotation.

For the shock, I use the blue mini car spring, and 30 wt oil. The mini car springs give more adjustment range. Blue helps keep the car turning on power. I don't think you need to be too heavy with the shock setup, since a lot of dampening goes on at the dampener plates. Also remember that the shock length will set your pod droop, which affects rear end traction and weight transfer. More droop = more traction, and weight transfer.

I have also noticed that the 15th Anniv. dampener plates give better dampening action that the stock RM stuff. I went from 30k on the RM plates to 20K on the 15th setup. YMMV I like to go heavier to keep the car flatter.

I also like the gold springs on the front since they help the car turn. Running some diff oil like 15k or 20k on the kingpins will slow the reaction a bit. The gold springs like some preload to keep from rolling the weight back to the rear of the car. You can use a shim, or if this isn't kosher, use the grub screw in the steering arm to set preload. Just use a caliper to keep it even side to side. A little goes a long way, you just want to keep the spring loaded up.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 04:31 AM   #1377
Tech Fanatic
 
Ffejdat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 904
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

BP and Robk- What are the part numbers on the different front springs, or where do you get those, are they part of a front end kit? Thanks!
__________________
Ahhhh, I could'a got a falcon!
Ffejdat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 06:16 AM   #1378
Tech Champion
 
RC MARKET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 6,172
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

TRG
Hard Front Suspension Arm arrived !
Attached Thumbnails
TAMIYA F103 RM-trg-5066.jpg  
RC MARKET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 06:39 AM   #1379
Tech Fanatic
 
bakaguyjean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atsugi Japan
Posts: 823
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ffejdat View Post
BP and Robk- What are the part numbers on the different front springs, or where do you get those, are they part of a front end kit? Thanks!

SP-395 will get you a full set of uprights with all three springs for the front.
SP-509 all three springs for the front.
__________________
My body projects blog http://rcbodyproject.wordpress.com/
bakaguyjean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 12:50 PM   #1380
Tech Regular
 
inconceivable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakaguyjean View Post
SP-395 will get you a full set of uprights with all three springs for the front.
SP-509 all three springs for the front.
What color spring equals what spring rate (soft, med, hard). I believe an earlier post referred to the black as firm, however what is the gold and silver rated at ? Thanks.
__________________
"And now the Matador shall dance with the blind shoe maker"
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed. - Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936"
inconceivable is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
tamiya f103 gt madmiki Australia For Sale/Trade 1 02-04-2009 12:13 AM
looking for a Tamiya F103 GT level-4 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 6 05-22-2008 04:56 PM
Tamiya F103 GT heavy Australia For Sale/Trade 3 05-15-2006 02:49 AM
WTB: Tamiya buggy & Tamiya f103 stuff rays_tt Australia Wanted to Buy 2 04-20-2006 07:10 AM
Tamiya F103 or F103 Parts MM-F1 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 4 04-24-2004 04:14 PM


Tags
rasta scbc


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:23 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net