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Old 06-09-2008, 01:14 PM   #16
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I cant image that any of the racing organization would try to regulate timing at this point. Regulating brushless motor specifications require a different philosphy than the brushed motors we became accustomed to.

The framework that we have now for brushless motors works well and I would expect that they would be tweaked as we see revisions and designed to the current system.

The timing adjustability allows use to "tune" for track conditions without affecting the power the motor creates.
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:22 PM   #17
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This came up on another thread before Roar carpet nats and Dawn Sanchez (Roar Pres.) said no restrictions on ESC were planned. I've also spoke with Roar Technical director and draftsman of the brushless rules and he said they could not see limite]ing that technology not to mention the tech of such with all the hackers and factory testers would be near impossible.

So crank that timing
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J View Post
what about when guys were cutting the brushes in stock motors to change timing/powerband??dont you do the same with changing spring tensions? If thats the cae stock motors should use the same brush/spring combination all the time and not be allowed to tune their motors,stock is stock right?? I hope ROAR doesnt make a stupid rule like banning those ESC'S
Exactly!.....with a little difference. Its easier to find that the sweet spot settings are (figure them out, or ask your fellow racer) and type those in your ESC than to learn the whole brushed voodoo thing. The brushed voodoo was not easily duplicated even if someone gave you a point by point list of exactly what to do.

Guy who runs the comm until there's a valley carved out of it
Guy who trues, dyno's, springs...and all the rest of it
^^^^^^^
That wasn't cheating

Guy who tweaks the settings on the ESC to gain more
Guy who runs it with the box settings and don't bother with the manual
^^^^^^^
That isn't cheating either in my opinion.

We are not dealing with spec type racing here are we? Are we confusing stock rules with spec rules per chance?

Last edited by CaliberX; 06-09-2008 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Thought popped in my head
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:18 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CaliberX View Post
Exactly!.....with a little difference. Its easier to find that the sweet spot settings are (figure them out, or ask your fellow racer) and type those in your ESC than to learn the whole brushed voodoo thing. The brushed voodoo was not easily duplicated even if someone gave you a point by point list of exactly what to do.

Guy who runs the comm until there's a valley carved out of it
Guy who trues, dyno's, springs...and all the rest of it
^^^^^^^
That wasn't cheating

Guy who tweaks the settings on the ESC to gain more
Guy who runs it with the box settings and don't bother with the manual
^^^^^^^
That isn't cheating either in my opinion.

We are not dealing with spec type racing here are we? Are we confusing stock rules with spec rules per chance?
But 17.5 and 13.5 is considered stock racing, and not spec. This needs to be defined, brushless motors are faster than brushed motors, so if a manufacture comes out with a stock motors where you can adjust the timing and low maintence, can we put these on a level playing field?
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe64 View Post
But 17.5 and 13.5 is considered stock racing, and not spec. This needs to be defined, brushless motors are faster than brushed motors, so if a manufacture comes out with a stock motors where you can adjust the timing and low maintence, can we put these on a level playing field?
In a sense, you answered your own question... This is "not spec" racing - rules are defined for "stock racing" and designers and racers are finding the gaps and gray areas in the rules... "Spec" racing currently exists only in the BRL oval racing series, where ONLY Novak motors are allowed and only a limited number of ESC's are allowed -- that is a strict "spec" and only a "spec" can create a level playing field...

The old brushed rules were never a level playing field anyway -- with a dyno, a comm lathe and some brush cutting tools you could always out-tune the "Joe Racers" who bought "off the shelf"... Only true untouchable handout motors ever cured that and they were never able to catch on because racers always look for "the edge"...
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe64 View Post
But 17.5 and 13.5 is considered stock racing, and not spec. This needs to be defined, brushless motors are faster than brushed motors, so if a manufacture comes out with a stock motors where you can adjust the timing and low maintence, can we put these on a level playing field?

I dont agree that in all cases that brushless are faster. At my club level, the brushed motor seem to have an advantage, due to the size of our track.


I have have been agaist the evoluation of brushless motors untill i drove one. they are so smooth and the power band is the same all the time.As a die hard brushed motor guy. I feel that my opinon has really changed The local club really likes that brushless motors.. but the bug question is, which is the best esc/ motor combo to run for 27t stock and 19t???
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:40 AM   #22
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The brushed vs. brushless thing really doesn't matter to me. Brushed stock is still faster than 17.5 (see carpet nats). People are switching to brushless because it's cheaper or what they prefer.

Variable timing has been out ever since the original LRP. It's not like there's a new $500 speedo out every year like sedan kits so it's not a big deal as far as I'm concerned. LRP updated the sphere once. Novak put a plate on theirs for 4 cell and made a spread specktrum system (not a big deal). Tekin had to make a new speedo to fit the spec motor rules and Speedpassion released the V1.1 speedo's but that's about it. There are new speedo's out but things are pretty stable for now.

For me, there are bigger issues than timing in the speed controls.
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:30 AM   #23
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As was said before, timing on the bl motors is no deal at all, imo it only makes the motor run hotter. advancing the timing gives a change that could just as easily be accomplished by going up on the pinion. im with matt howard, i get the best feel from 0* timing and finding the pinion
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:50 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by geeunit1014 View Post
As was said before, timing on the bl motors is no deal at all, imo it only makes the motor run hotter. advancing the timing gives a change that could just as easily be accomplished by going up on the pinion. im with matt howard, i get the best feel from 0* timing and finding the pinion
Physical timing on the motor definately does make the motor run hotter. From my limited testing electronic timing is more efficient and is a finer adjustment than gearing or physical timing alone. So it won't make a huge difference but from my experince it helps you make small changes when gearing up or down, or changing the physical timing is too drastic.
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