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Old 05-30-2008, 03:09 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by geeunit1014 View Post
one advantage to SL nobody has mentioned is that you cant thermal in the middle of a run
Great, so you get to thermal overload the rotor. It will still work, it will feel like it dropped a bank of transistors though. Remember, magnets don't like heat.
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:13 PM   #32
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I think itīs just Novak ESC which shut down an overheated motor.
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:11 AM   #33
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There are no 4T star motors, all of them are 7T deltas. There are some differences but basically the Orion and the GM motors are the same. Both are based on Feigao as Speedpassion, CS,.....

LRP also has a 4T what actually is a 7T delta.
I think the motors are labeled as 4T so people could compare them more easily with the usual star wound motors.
Sorry, but on this you're COMPLETELY WRONG! The LRP 4.0t motor IS and always was a star wound 4.0t motor and not a 7t Delta. Why would we call it a 4.0t Star if it would be a 7t Delta anyway?!? I'm sure it's the same for the Orion 4.0t also.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:29 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
Great, so you get to thermal overload the rotor. It will still work, it will feel like it dropped a bank of transistors though. Remember, magnets don't like heat.
not when you gear correctly. last i ran my 17.5 i came off @ 160-170 (under novaks rec. limit) but my freind with the same car was having to run 2-3 teeth lower to avoid the cutoff in the last 30 sec. of the run. its not fun trying to fight the track and your electronics
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:33 PM   #35
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Sensorless is more accurate and tracks the motor dynamically.
WRONG!!!
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:39 PM   #36
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Would you like to explain why?
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:44 PM   #37
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Yes please.. back it up with more than a opinion. I am here to learn and big enough to change my mind when convinced.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:29 PM   #38
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I know this is one manufactures view but I wouldn't think they are feeding crap.

http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/b...ensorless.html
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by AZrcdriver View Post
I know this is one manufactures view but I wouldn't think they are feeding crap.

http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/b...ensorless.html
I would call that an explanation.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:55 AM   #40
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I am not against sensors, although we certainly tried to do it without them. It is a very solid technology for starting the motors and allows more power immediately. However, it is not always accurate when running the motor and varies with rpms, temperature, magnet strength and physical position per phase. The electrical commutation point in the motor also changes with rpm and load, changing timing over a large range. Sensored is a clear signal, but is not accurate or consistent. It is more like a brushed motor with mechanical commutation.

Sensorless is measuring the motor in real time, is always "accurate" and consistent which provides a smooth power response. Sensorless is a misleading term, both techniques are sensing something.

We offer a Dual mode with sensored starts and sensorless run, sensorless only mode and sensored only mode so that you have all the choices to get the feel you want. This also gives us the safety net of always falling back to sensorless if a sensor does fail or the plug comes out so you can finish the race …. Which does happen.

We like sensored starts, but sensorless run gives us more accurate information to drive the motor more efficiently and a better a feel.

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Old 06-10-2008, 06:47 PM   #41
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I am with TekinPrez on this one. I love sensorless, delta motors and I can't wait for some changes to be made to the rules. There is so much more power out there with better efficiency. I can't figure out where a certain manufacturer thought the ROAR style motor was more like brushed. As far as I can tell, it is the farthest thing from brushed. I can't even find gearing low enough to make my sedans work with what is considered stock in ROAR's rules and the weight of these motors is just ridiculous. Having to add 4 ounces of weight to the right side of my sedan is just crazy (ROAR brushless and Lipo). Until then I will just keep running at the parking lot were the rules are pretty loose.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:23 PM   #42
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Only thing I will say is more than one company gave input to the rules but has been posted that only one company stepped up. I talked to the other parties involved and know this is just not true. Enough said on this.

As far as what is better.........well that is up to the user. I have ran both types and like the feel and adjustability that my sensorless system gives to me and love not having extra wires to worry about as it just is one more thing to go wrong during a race. Seen first hand at least 4 times this year of sensor wires either coming unplugged or being frayed and cause the system to quit working.

The debate will be ongoing and no one system is perfect for everyone.


TeamTekin I always like to read your posts. Infomative without talking bad about other companies products. Class act in my book.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:40 PM   #43
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I have been assuming slotless sensorless motor are more efficient than slotted and sensored motors.

Do not know if it is 100% true.

If they are more efficient they should use less battery mah to do the same job as the slotted and sensored ones, am I right?

I put this question because I have been told the opposite by some guys that where making experiences at the track.

Can anybody help?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:32 PM   #44
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As an ESC manufacturer, I have my opinion:

For competitive racing, a sensored ESC is the best choice. (Not only because of its small adventage of startup, but also because of its expensive price. We always think that only an expensive ESC is suitable for such a competitive racing)

For sportful racing or just for fun racing, a sensorless ESC is absolutely wonderful.

We are arguing about the throttle sense of sonsored and sonsorless, but with the technology evolution, the difference between these 2 type systems maybe only exists in the start process , when the motor is running at a little higher speed, sensored and sensorless are almost the same!

So for some very very low speed appliacations, a sensorless system is not so suitable. But for RC on-road car, the sonsorless brushless system will be more and more popular.


Last edited by hobbywing; 07-24-2008 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:03 AM   #45
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Hobbywing, you are the maker of the SpeedPassion GT speed controller aren't you?

Congratulations on that fantastic ESC, I am using one right now. I have to admit I prefer the architecture of the Castle Mamba Max with the condensers inside the box, but it was the small program box that made me decide, well beside that with the GT I can plug sensors if needed and in the MM it is not possible.
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