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Old 05-30-2008, 02:29 PM   #91
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10.5 is only legal in superstock this year as a transition. Next year forward it will be 13.5 only for superstock. Oval has a different deal , however.
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Old 05-30-2008, 02:32 PM   #92
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It's really not that expensive to make a new spur gear. I know for a fact that with a little dremel work you can fit a 37/78 on a B4 (with a gear cover) and it will be overgeared for most tracks with a 17.5 and LiPo. If they made a 72 you wouldn't need to hack up the motor plate at all.

In any case, I think that stock in sedan needs to slow down. I seldom run offroad so I can't say there but with sedan, I've seen the new people struggle to get around the track. I've seen the 100% sponsored racers at big races.

We shouldn't force the racer to run a specific class but we should make classes that encourage sponsored racers not to race at an entry level. I've been racing for almost 20 years now and I can tell you that up until about 5 years ago winning a big stock race ment nothing. It ment that you were ready for mod. What changed? It's the speed. Almost all of the classes are running as fast in stock as mod was 10 years ago.
Of course it isnt that expensive to make a new spur gear. The issue is that the slipper setup restricts how small the spur gear can be so thats where it becomes a problem with getting the correct gearing. I have a friend who is in the process of making spur gear adapters to use any TC spur gear on losi/kyosho/AE buggies and with his prototype with 17.5, hes geared 33pinion/65spur and the motor is only getting warm. Hes got plenty of power, its controllable, and at our track theres a big ski jump 95% of all stocks (brushed) cant clear (and if they can, its the first 2 laps fresh off a peak) but now his 17.5 can, and thats with lipo even. These things can gear much higher than 37/78 and be plenty fine. The point is that i (nor anyone else) should have to whip out a dremel to even get near the correct gearing. That also moves the motor back farther and pushes the weight balance of the buggy beyond what its supposed to be, and the motor hangs lower so will get more easily damaged if the rear end drags or lands hard...etc. Thats just nitpicking though.
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Old 05-30-2008, 03:26 PM   #93
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I'm looking at the ROAR online rule book and I don't see anything that says 10.5 brushless can be used in Super Stock. Only 13.5. Where can I find this information?
Page 83 of the 2008 ROAR Rule Book

12.4.6.3 Drivers may not use their own stock motors or stock motor components when the event requires that Handout motors be used. If controlled motor event, stock participants may use any ROAR approved 27T brushed or 17.5 brushless motors. Super Stock class participants may use any ROAR approved 19T brushed or 10.5 brushless motors. (2009 Super Stock will be 13.5 BL only) All motors must be inspected by the ROAR RMT Technical staff prior to the start of qualifying. Participants will be limited to a maximum of 3 ROAR approved motors. All ROAR stock and super stock motor rules shall apply.
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:41 AM   #94
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You dont believe the president of ROAR??
LOL

Thanks Ruben for posting the information regarding our transition allowance of 10.5 in SS this year.
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:06 AM   #95
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Trans Am has helped with a place for guys who are new or who don't want to get involved with the high end of racing. That's a good thing, and it shows, turn out wise.

I agree with Fred B that stock has to go back to what it was--the slow class. We have 19t/13.5/superstock as a ROAR class now for all the sponsored drivers who don't run mod. In fact, we should keep the mod drivers out of superstock.
This is still a hobby, and it's health depends not on paid drivers, or 100% stock guys, or even 50% guys, but the PAYING public. Trying to separate classes so we have some sort of ladder to move through would go a long way to retaining racers in the hobby, and would let the new ones learn before they get eaten alive.
I thought Trans Am would be cheaper as well but after looking at the rules I can still run a high dollar Xray 008 with all the fixin's and tools that go with it. Next the batteries. I would have to assemble those so now we have a good soldering station and jig required for that. Sorry guys this is not the answer either. New people need to have competitive stuff they can buy off the shelf. Not attacking you robk or your opinions...just happens to be the post that brought this to mind.
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Old 06-01-2008, 06:58 AM   #96
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Actually to post on what this thread is about. We have some weeks where the turnout is up and somewhere it is down. We currently have a point series going on so the turn out is up. Everyone likes them bowling trophies.
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:01 PM   #97
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Dude, I just had a guy tell me the other day he sunk $1000 into a micro rs4. Im not saying it has to be that much. But you know if it became popular and had a nats and a worlds for it then the cost of the stuff would go up.

Again Im not saying people need to spend that much. Just highlighting the cost of racing is out of control regardless of class.

We had about a dozen people come watch our races regularly. They want to join the hobby but the cost is too much. I think that is what really keeps the hobby from growing. Not sure there is much that can be done about it though.

first of all, anyone who spends 1k on an MRS4 is retarted. My nats winning M18 cost $470 to put together.(counting the cost of a BL setup (i won in stock.brushed), a lipo batt, hitec servo, and m18 pro kit w/ exotek R3 chassis). you could build the car for a stock class with brushed stuff and without the R3 for $350 and be competitive. and with support costs considerably less ($5/pair tires, brushed motors under 40, match packs are 40, bl and lipo only makes it cheaper), theres no way it cost as much. most alu/expensive stuff on these cars is a downgrade, considereing the plastic hub carriers, axles, and diffs wear better than thier alu counterparts, and the plastic shocks are smoother than the alu's.


and not to forget we wanted micros to be a part of roar because rules are so inconsistent with them, and it would be good to have a national standard, instead of having to switch up for each diffrent track.


also, anyone looking for cheap racing should look into 1/18th's. our micro program with 2 classes (stock and mod) draws just as many or more entries as our outdoor program (coopers, trans-am, sportsman & pro sedan, and occasionaly 1/12 and nitro), and as mentioned is cheaper. 1/14 recoils are just as cheap(same electronics) and bigger, making them easier to run on bigger tracks I know weve had more than a few racers get started on the micros and get hooked any get into 1/10 as well

our counts for outdoor have been up a little with trans am being so popular, but the tc's are down somewhat(some locals switched up from tc to trans am).
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:23 PM   #98
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I thought Trans Am would be cheaper as well but after looking at the rules I can still run a high dollar Xray 008 with all the fixin's and tools that go with it. Next the batteries. I would have to assemble those so now we have a good soldering station and jig required for that. Sorry guys this is not the answer either. New people need to have competitive stuff they can buy off the shelf. Not attacking you robk or your opinions...just happens to be the post that brought this to mind.
So? You can buy a TA05 and a set of Wiha tools ($19). Also, Weller sells a nice 60w iron that will do batteries for about $40, and a Radio shack iron stand costs about $5. The Venom jig is like $18, or a deans jig is what, $12? Or you can just mooch like everybody does anyway...Also, lipo and 21.5 motors will become reality in the T/A rules soon, which will make things even easier.

If you want to spend all that money, you can. If you have all that stuff, you can race T/a too, and not have to buy all new stuff.
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:35 AM   #99
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So? You can buy a TA05 and a set of Wiha tools ($19). Also, Weller sells a nice 60w iron that will do batteries for about $40, and a Radio shack iron stand costs about $5. The Venom jig is like $18, or a deans jig is what, $12? Or you can just mooch like everybody does anyway...Also, lipo and 21.5 motors will become reality in the T/A rules soon, which will make things even easier.

If you want to spend all that money, you can. If you have all that stuff, you can race T/a too, and not have to buy all new stuff.
Since this is not a TA thread I have to ask why you insist on thread-jacking it?
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:44 AM   #100
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is it happening... yet?



No? Why not?

Yes? Why so?

Please.. need help in this one.... this discussion will help determine changes in next years electric proposals given to class committee's in ROAR....



Dawn

I thought I would help get this back on topic....
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:41 PM   #101
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One thing Roar (and the other races) needs to look at is cost for the average Joe and the time needed for these races.

With the Economy the way it is, the "extras" are taking a back seat to the "gotta haves".

I am one of the fortunate that has very little going out and a job paying job..but for me to goto the upcoming on-road nats and SPLIT the bill in half with some one is gonna cost out of pocket about $800.

$110-entry and Roar membership (one calss)
$150-tires (if you don't make the A) $175 if you do
$200 in gas (round trip 1400 miles)
$200 in hotel bill (5 nights at $80)
$100 food for the week (this was being conservative) LOL
$100 misc. (parts that might break, something left at home I need)

This is not including the cost of (not that this is needed) a new motor and/or batteries. That could easily add another $150 to the trip.

Then tack onto that 2,3 or 4 days of vacation time. That could be pulling from "family" vacation for some.

Looking at the list I have, I know that ROAR only has a few things they could change...but those few could actually have a big impact.

Roar needs to help the Race director/owner find more reasonable hotel. Do some home work on their normal rates and the discounted ones....

For the onroad nats I have called the HOST hotel and just ask for a quote on Tues- Sat. same week as the nats and GOT THE SAME price as the "Discounted Host hotel price"!?!?!?! Where was the savings I thought to myself?

Tires- yes the home track owner should have some input into tires, but ROAR should handle the actually pricing and suppling of tires!

ROAR should be in such good standing w/ the RC manuf. that they should be able to garner a better price for tires than the track!

Tire pricing should not be only a few more $$$'s than regular HS pricing when you know 150 ppl are going to be using that tire and that tire only!

I understand the tracks are trying to make $$$ but $10 a set on tires is not fair for the racer either. (I do not know the actaual pricing just assuming) LOL

But if ROAR is involved and not trying to PROFIT (NON-Profit org. RIGHT) off of the racers this is a good way to help out.

Another idea. I know for a Company to "sponsor" the race or a class they pay XXX amount...WHo gets this? the track or ROAR? Pretty sure its the track...so instead of CASH have these companies DONATE tires for the race or have bigger discounts for the tires..

I don't feel the Entry is TO out of line VS the OTHER races...but I do remember the days of $50 entries WITH handout motors!

Now we pay $80 w/ no hand out...

As for vacations...the average American gets 40hrs vacation..so if you work 5 days a week its 10 days, 12hr days and its 6.666 days.

Now figure in that there are 7 "major" races on the onroad side... with most being a wed- sun. deal. The average Joe can only attend 2 races. Roar is up against Reedy, IIC, Snowbirds, Cleveland and the Novak. So ROAR has TWO chances of pulling racers (carpet and asphalt nats) from the other 5 Big races not including the 2nd tier races I call them..Halloween, Regionals, and Local "BIG RACES".

Gonna be hard to pull from IIC and Snowbirds since they can be used for "vacation" also.


Here is another Idea for ROAR, at any ROAR event, National, regional, state that DOES NOT offer a juniors class WAIVE the entry fee for any child under say 15 yrs of age that is coming with a PARENT!
This does two things, gets younger ppl involved and helps the FAMILY MAN that wants to take his child....

EX. I know some one that is bring his son to the nats, but is having to pony up almost $300 extra dollars for entry, membership and tires just for his son. He knows as well as the child that he will not be a "contender" (unless the planets align just right). He can't even let his son use HIS re-runs for the race. So he is having to buy at least 2 sets of tires for him.... Roar could do something to help out these kinds of situtaions, RIGHT????
Waived entry of $80 would make buying the tires alittle easier.


I just think if RACING in general is going to GROW these are some of the things that need to be looked at.

This is in NO WAY trying to bash ROAR!
Just some ideas and things I see that may or may not help the hobby!
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:04 PM   #102
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Since this is not a TA thread I have to ask why you insist on thread-jacking it?
Not thread jacking, part of the conversation. Pay attention.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:51 PM   #103
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The average Joe doen't need to go to a National event. In fact if money is a problem I would rather see him stay home and race his local track. Big events are doing fine. The local tracks are dying a slow painful death.

And another one just died: Speedzone RC in Connecticut, home of the 2007 ROAR Region 1 Carpet Championships, has just announced they are closing the doors end of August.

Your first line item in racing costs is ROAR membership. ROAR membership is for the year, and frankly should be automatic for anyone who races RC. If you're going to support RC racing you have to support ROAR. No one is ever going to start a new organization. Far too complicated to start from scratch.

Granted, ROAR could be doing a better job (especially the Region 1 Director) but that's no reason not to join. Support. Join. Volunteer. Everyone will be better for it!
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:53 PM   #104
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Not thread jacking, part of the conversation. Pay attention.
I guess I need to go check the T/A threads and remind myself how vehemently some of you attacked that one guy for trying to make something "part of the conversation." But I could be wrong.
I was paying attention, and I don't think T/A rules coincide at all with ROAR's.
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:51 PM   #105
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The average Joe doen't need to go to a National event. In fact if money is a problem I would rather see him stay home and race his local track. Big events are doing fine. The local tracks are dying a slow painful death.

And another one just died: Speedzone RC in Connecticut, home of the 2007 ROAR Region 1 Carpet Championships, has just announced they are closing the doors end of August.

Your first line item in racing costs is ROAR membership. ROAR membership is for the year, and frankly should be automatic for anyone who races RC. If you're going to support RC racing you have to support ROAR. No one is ever going to start a new organization. Far too complicated to start from scratch.

Granted, ROAR could be doing a better job (especially the Region 1 Director) but that's no reason not to join. Support. Join. Volunteer. Everyone will be better for it!
So national events should be only for Factory drivers? I totally disagree...I do see the point if $$$$ is a factor then stay home and run local races.
But on the other hand its NOT Roar's problem to keep "small" businesses going..That is the owners that need to do the "foot"work to get new ppl involved NOT ROAR!

Ask yourself this, for any track you know that has closed, did the owner do anything to get racers there or just rely on word of mouth an ad in the yellow pages???? Did they contact any of the racers to see what the problem was? Or just stand back and say "where is everyone?" The guys that aren't there can't answer why they are not there if not ask.....

You say EVERYONE should be a ROAR member if you are involved in RC....well to that I say this. I have ZERO tracks with in 2 hours, haven't had a regional nor a Roar State race in almost three years, Tell me WHY I should be a member again??? I join Roar when I am attending a ROAR race. So don't take that as a bash, just what I hear most when I mention ROAR to a new person.

Now I can help with this suggestion, IF ROAR wants to help the LOCAL TRACKS, they could put together a booklet with some suggestions as to how the owner/track could get exposure. Like Local newspaper, localTV news, Fliers at the loacl mall/shopping center. Demo day/race at a local "festival/family day"

But again, I don't feel RAOR should have to do the FOOT work for a business owner.

I look at ROAR as a small NASCAR, they provide rules, TECH and help set-up dates and tracks. They don't Find Drivers for the teams and they don't find ppl to put in the seats...thats someone elses job.

PLEASE no one take my post as a ROAR BASHING or as negativity!

I think ROAR has made great strides in the last few years and I TOTALLY understand what ROAR has doen for this hobby over the past 25 yrs or so...I raced when NORRCA was around. That wasn't any better! LOL

One of my favorite answers to the question of "What does ROAR do for me?" is "Look in your pit and at the track area, if not for ROAR you would have NONE OF THIS"
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