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Old 05-29-2008, 11:49 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by maximebeauvais View Post
At our track, we started a beginner class with the HPI cyclone something (sorry forget the name) and it is all stock. a RTR cost 350$ and it is pretty fast. we got a few more racer this years because of this class.

Mini is way less expensive then 1/10. I'm in the hobby for around 6 years...running mini and 1/10 and I spend way to much money on 1/10 sedan compare to 1/18 onroad so please do not tell me that mini are expensive
I wont tell you. I will just show you a link...

http://www.atomicmods.com/Products/M...an__10990.aspx

People drop a ton of money into mini-scale racing. It can be as expensive as 1/10th scale. Doesnt need to be, just is unfortunately.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:49 AM   #62
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I'll post my thoughts as a person brand new to RC.

I bought and built a race ready 1/10 elec truck. I spent a good chunk of $$$.

But now, in Allentown, PA/Phily, PA area I can't find a place to race unless I drive a considerable distance.

And when I get there, the track is a 1/8 scale track with jumps that are unfriendly to 1/10 scale trucks. I also find the majority of the 1/8 nitro guys to be pretty rude as if my manhood is in question because I decided on an electric car (because my kids don't like the loud nitro cars and I wanted to include them in the hobby with me when they are older).

But I think the thing that turns me off the most is track insistance on point races. I can't come every weekend. I don't even want to and doing so isn't family friendly.

Where are the casual events? Beginner events? Its shocking to me how unfriendly this sport is to beginners.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:51 AM   #63
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Ias well as opening the organization's eyes to how things are being done without their input.

We are trying.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:54 AM   #64
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is it happening... yet?



No? Why not?

Yes? Why so?

Please.. need help in this one.... this discussion will help determine changes in next years electric proposals given to class committee's in ROAR....



Dawn
As a ROAR member since the mid '80s I'll log in a suggest a few things.
I am of the opinion that if anything RCing has gotten cheaper than it was 20 years ago, at least in comparison to the economy and huge prices increases in every other consumer good, so I don't think it's not as much of a cost concern as a return on the investment concern which has alway been a problem amoungst the have and the have not racers.

1) As far as any "electric resurgance" is concerned I think it might have more to do with more of a phase the hobby is going through than anything else. I can remember when electric 1/12th onroad took off, all but elminating 1/8th onroad from racer's minds, as well as seeing the growth of 1/10th offroad with the introduction of vehicles from AE and Losi to compliment and surpass what was already on the market. And I clearly remember the day when the first RC10GT hit the track and the buzz it created as everyone that seemingly had never heard a nitro run got all excited about the real sounds of racing cars. In quick succession manufacturers started churning out nitro buggies and monster trucks and finally truggies, and factory drivers soon all but left the electric ranks to run gas. Which brings me to my next point.
2) While ROAR seemingly was intended as a rules-making organization, it's never really in my opinion differentiated any difference between the pro or factory drivers and the average joe. Yes, there has been things in the rules relative to accepting prize money, but more to point there's never been anything in the rules relative to actually noting the difference between paid drivers vs. ones that run out of their own pockets. Which brings me to my next point.
3) As I saw it and heard if from their mouths, a lot of average guys ran from electric to get into something they had a chance of winning at as much they chased the so-called sound of racing motor thing. We were going through a bit of a battery wars era, and unless you had the best packs you didn't stand a chance. Going gas was the easy answer for many of them. But as nitro cars and trucks have evolved so has the engineering involved with going fast and now once again the average guy has little chance competing, even on the local level against the lhs-sponsored drivers, because of engine costs. And then when you add that to the fact that all the medium to large event podiums are filled by the big names, whether it be ROAR or RC Pro Series or whatever, the little guy is again all but being forced to find a playground in which they can play in, and be competitive, and still have a chance to take home a trophy at the end of the weekend. And many of those guys are migrating from nitro to electric, or back to electric, because they're tired of getting beat by the money. Which brings me to my final point.
4) Do something in the rules to quantitatively differentiate between sponsored and unsponsored drivers. Between the guy and gal that pays for their stuff out of their own pocket and the ones that are either on salary to a factory team or even the ones getting a discount at the local hobby shop -- because one way or another for the organization (ROAR) to grow it's going to have to come from the grass roots level. ... and that's the little guy.

But you've probably heard that sort of thing before, as well as most of the similar points made by all of us oldchool and longtime members. So maybe, and more to point, you really do need to hear what the little guy and what the new guys wants to see changed and what it'll take for them to become more involved in the hobby and ROAR events.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:55 AM   #65
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Here is one thing to think about. You say 2 - 4 in each class. Does it matter to the LHS? Those 2 or 3 people still pay to race. Why not let them get their money’s worth by being with the same skill level of racer instead of wreaking havoc in the Pro-Stock class trying to learn to drive. May make the day a little longer but who cares.

Here is what we have found. Those 2 or 3 people have fun racing. They get better and enjoy racing and start racing another class because of the money they saved getting started to begin with. Now they are having a lot more fun and invite their buddies and it starts all over.

Some stick with it and some leave but usually for unseen reasons

I just think ROAR needs to come up with some sort of low budget, beginner level class that somehow targets RTR cars. I think this would be a great idea.
i don't have a problem with having more classes, but the lhs has to keep a balance of the number of additional racers and how much more time it extends the race day. and therefore increase employee costs.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:55 AM   #66
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In all fairness, NovaF1 mentions this to avoid the ROAR bashing that inevitably happens in forums when ROAR is a topic. Somebody will have an issue and that person does not have the communication skills that others have and their keyboard strength is over used.

ROAR uses the website for official statements, as per the bylaws, and uses forums for communication. I have a tendency to over burden myself by following too many forums and am criticized for not following enough... oh well... LOL

As for the question about why a 13.5 - yes, that was answered months ago in several locations on RC Tech and other forums. And, it is the closest possible and this is why we allowed 10.5 in 2008 in SS so people wouldn't have to rush out and buy new motors when the rule books hit mailboxes. It is fair and I will stand by that decision.
Not a post of the subject matter of this thread but Dawn is correct about my reasons behind my opinion. Any one I mean anyone can create 5,10,15 IDs if they want to in here and the new owners/mods refuse to do anything about it, no accountibility for what people post.....
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:59 AM   #67
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In all fairness, NovaF1 mentions this to avoid the ROAR bashing that inevitably happens in forums when ROAR is a topic. Somebody will have an issue and that person does not have the communication skills that others have and their keyboard strength is over used.

ROAR uses the website for official statements, as per the bylaws, and uses forums for communication. I have a tendency to over burden myself by following too many forums and am criticized for not following enough... oh well... LOL
Understandable. I just wish more ROAR members were as eloquent and level-headed as you are. Makes for happy members and non-members alike.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:28 PM   #68
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hopefully 15.5 will shake things up once it becomes widely available, 17.5 is still too slow (according to many people) for onroad...

other than that, electric is alive and well if you ask me.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:41 PM   #69
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17.5 is almost dead nuts on comparison for Stock.... if you want to go faster, run 13.5

IMHO stock needs to be even slower.... ALOT slower



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hopefully 15.5 will shake things up once it becomes widely available, 17.5 is still too slow (according to many people) for onroad...

other than that, electric is alive and well if you ask me.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:24 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by oldschoolracer View Post
As a ROAR member since the mid '80s I'll log in a suggest a few things.
I am of the opinion that if anything RCing has gotten cheaper than it was 20 years ago, at least in comparison to the economy and huge prices increases in every other consumer good, so I don't think it's not as much of a cost concern as a return on the investment concern which has alway been a problem amoungst the have and the have not racers.

1) As far as any "electric resurgance" is concerned I think it might have more to do with more of a phase the hobby is going through than anything else. I can remember when electric 1/12th onroad took off, all but elminating 1/8th onroad from racer's minds, as well as seeing the growth of 1/10th offroad with the introduction of vehicles from AE and Losi to compliment and surpass what was already on the market. And I clearly remember the day when the first RC10GT hit the track and the buzz it created as everyone that seemingly had never heard a nitro run got all excited about the real sounds of racing cars. In quick succession manufacturers started churning out nitro buggies and monster trucks and finally truggies, and factory drivers soon all but left the electric ranks to run gas. Which brings me to my next point.
2) While ROAR seemingly was intended as a rules-making organization, it's never really in my opinion differentiated any difference between the pro or factory drivers and the average joe. Yes, there has been things in the rules relative to accepting prize money, but more to point there's never been anything in the rules relative to actually noting the difference between paid drivers vs. ones that run out of their own pockets. Which brings me to my next point.
3) As I saw it and heard if from their mouths, a lot of average guys ran from electric to get into something they had a chance of winning at as much they chased the so-called sound of racing motor thing. We were going through a bit of a battery wars era, and unless you had the best packs you didn't stand a chance. Going gas was the easy answer for many of them. But as nitro cars and trucks have evolved so has the engineering involved with going fast and now once again the average guy has little chance competing, even on the local level against the lhs-sponsored drivers, because of engine costs. And then when you add that to the fact that all the medium to large event podiums are filled by the big names, whether it be ROAR or RC Pro Series or whatever, the little guy is again all but being forced to find a playground in which they can play in, and be competitive, and still have a chance to take home a trophy at the end of the weekend. And many of those guys are migrating from nitro to electric, or back to electric, because they're tired of getting beat by the money. Which brings me to my final point.
4) Do something in the rules to quantitatively differentiate between sponsored and unsponsored drivers. Between the guy and gal that pays for their stuff out of their own pocket and the ones that are either on salary to a factory team or even the ones getting a discount at the local hobby shop -- because one way or another for the organization (ROAR) to grow it's going to have to come from the grass roots level. ... and that's the little guy.

But you've probably heard that sort of thing before, as well as most of the similar points made by all of us oldchool and longtime members. So maybe, and more to point, you really do need to hear what the little guy and what the new guys wants to see changed and what it'll take for them to become more involved in the hobby and ROAR events.
+1
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:24 PM   #71
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I wont tell you. I will just show you a link...

http://www.atomicmods.com/Products/M...an__10990.aspx

People drop a ton of money into mini-scale racing. It can be as expensive as 1/10th scale. Doesnt need to be, just is unfortunately.

Lets be honest here. A: That is a custom built machine and Atomic isnt known for their pricing. B: Thats for the 1/27th Mini-Z which has more limitations stock and uses built in electronics which they (atomic) are modifying. In fact that machine being advertised could only be run in the super mod class. C: There is labor in that. D: Mini-Z is a more concentrated group, so the manufacturer/production of parts for it is higher than a 1/18th which has a higher demand.

The closest comparison you can have in the one18th arena is this: http://www.twistedind.com/ thats still nearly 1/2 of the above. Actually, in more to the point, look at the price for Atomics custom built RC18T, which really is adding more bling than anything (and using Integy, which really does not have a good rep for precision/quality in 1/18th). Its still nearly 1/2 the price.

We are getting way off subject from what Dawn was attempting. How about we take this up in PMs as far as price arguments? I was simply making a point that 1/18th is cheaper than 1/10th and is another option to help bring new blood in these economic period. They also require less room than a 1/10th which means a track won't have to spend as much rent for a larger space.

I simply hope ROAR will realize these scales could help the hobby during this period versus always being overlooked or somehow downplayed that simply because the are smaller they are more "toys" than the other scales.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:36 PM   #72
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Dude, I just had a guy tell me the other day he sunk $1000 into a micro rs4. Im not saying it has to be that much. But you know if it became popular and had a nats and a worlds for it then the cost of the stuff would go up.

Again Im not saying people need to spend that much. Just highlighting the cost of racing is out of control regardless of class.

We had about a dozen people come watch our races regularly. They want to join the hobby but the cost is too much. I think that is what really keeps the hobby from growing. Not sure there is much that can be done about it though.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:41 PM   #73
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Understandable. I just wish more ROAR members were as eloquent and level-headed as you are. Makes for happy members and non-members alike.
Thank you.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:25 PM   #74
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hopefully 15.5 will shake things up once it becomes widely available, 17.5 is still too slow (according to many people) for onroad...

other than that, electric is alive and well if you ask me.

The people that want to go faster than 17.5 can simply run the next faster class. that would be Superstock (13.5 next year). Stock shouldn't be the place for ultra-compeditive racers that want to go "fast". It should be the place for new racers and hobbyists.

That's the thing that I just don't understand. If you want to go faster why not run the next faster ROAR class. Winning in stock should mean nothing (except maybe you're ready for a faster class). Back 20 years ago, that's how it was. We corrected the speed of stock in 91 and I think it needs to happen again. I think that there needs to be a bigger spread between the three classes that we have.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:27 PM   #75
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Racing will always be expensive. Even bone stock spec classes. Does it have to be? NO. There will always be someone that is willing to drop a little extra cash than the next guy in order to go faster. It's the nature of racing.

Is there a resurgance in RC racing? There seems to be in certain places. As one economic level can no longer afford to spend their 'disposable income' on one hobby or source of entertainment, they will move into something that is more affordable. The people complaining right now about costs are the people that are feeling the pinch. They may have to move on to a lower cost hobby or a lower priced version of this hobby, which sucks. There will also be another group that will find RC as something new and fun to do. I honestly think that there is a changing of the guard.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Look at the resurgance of pan cars. Over priced over engineered 4wd off-road buggies we call sedans have met their match. It's called pricing themselves out of the market. I have raced sedan, and have liked racing it. I still race it from time to time. IMO, 12th scale is where it's at. World GT will be the larger variation, and it's a blast to drive.
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