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Old 06-05-2008, 07:39 AM   #136
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in terms of people voicing 'how it should be done in RC'...

...opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one and they all make others leave the party...

R
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:10 AM   #137
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ROAR and EFRA have always worked closely together, because they have the most influence on the hobby. The three main areas of RC racing are America, Europe, and Asia. Usually as one goes, so does the other 2, with America trailing slightly behind.

RC racing in Europe is much different than here in America. Eurpoe tends to stay within the rules much more than we do. It's more a culture thing than anything else. I don't think we could copy that here.

And you can't blame the manufacturers for making what the racers want. If you're a racer you want the best car possible, regardless of price. X-Ray has capitalized on this by releasing a new car every year, with the latest and greatest updates. Doesn't matter that a T2 is still a great car, to some if you don't have a '008 you're already behind. We can complain all we want about cost. As long as someone buys it, they'll make it.

My suggestion for banning foam tires in TC comes from the fact that the only place where foam tires are used is here in the US. That's why the thick chassis '008 is called the US spec car.
In all the RC scene world wide, USA is half of the market, Europe 25% and Asia the others 25% (round numbers)

You are right, in Europe people are slow to react to everything. Think to much, and when is time to do something are already out of date. RC rules is no different.

But there is a very important thing that I believe you are missing. Everyday racers like me and a lot others will buy the cars that Champions are driving whatever they are. If the "Masters" by the rules must drive "plastic" cars you can be sure that those will be the cars that will sell more.

I am just mentionning the cost for the class (electrics) grow faster, because I think it is growing every day. Cars are already as fast as nitros and for a fraction of the price. The problem is that nitro cars are much stronger, and that is the way I think electric cars must take.
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:15 AM   #138
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Now comes the big question.....

Which person would you want to be?

A person who wins a stock race or the person who places 10th in a mod race?
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:23 AM   #139
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Now comes the big question.....

Which person would you want to be?

A person who wins a stock race or the person who places 10th in a mod race?
If I was a racer that consistently placed 1st or 2nd in Stock, then I would move to modified to increase the challenge. You have to start at them bottom at some point.
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:31 AM   #140
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Now comes the big question.....

Which person would you want to be?

A person who wins a stock race or the person who places 10th in a mod race?
That is where the rub comes in, because there are such a wide variety of racers with differing intents and personalities you'll likely get a bevy of answers. You'll get the ones that would move up to accept a so-called greater challenge. You'll get the ones (I've know quite a few over the years) that will stay where they are because of not wanting to increase their costs. You'll get the ones that are happy dominating the lower levels knowing good and well what will happen when the take their minnow to take on the sharks. And likely some others for other reasons.
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:25 AM   #141
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how is your 'ka' running riccardo? pretty cool that bodies more your vintage are back in style now. heh

take it easy

R

PS-the sound of a nitro engine pains me dearly, so i'm glad elec is back even if i'm not runnin anymore
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:41 AM   #142
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Are you saying that clubs should tell a racer whick class he/she should run in?
Sure, if someone is in the rookie/beginner class and after time they get to the point they're consistently spanking everyone else in the rookie class it would be a good idea to suggest they move to the next higher class.
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Old 06-05-2008, 09:48 AM   #143
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Sure, if someone is in the rookie/beginner class and after time they get to the point they're consistently spanking everyone else in the rookie class it would be a good idea to suggest they move to the next higher class.
This is what we do at our track in Dayton. We have never had a problem. What hurts is the cost of getting started or the perception of it. In our sportsman class we have guys running 10 year old cars and winning with them. We even have a guy that runs in our Superstock class that wins pretty regularly with a tc3. We try to tell everyone you don't need to have the newest latest and greatest to be competative, but that's the mindset people have these days. I think If we could get around that somehow we could see an even bigger gain in electric racing.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:24 AM   #144
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I think that the more resounding question that is never getting answered is; Why is the group that insists that people that are good enough to get in the show at large events have to move on to modified where the costs of maintenance and time required grows exponentially? There are very few people these days that can fully fund a mod ride at the national level, and a lot of local tracks don't have enough racers or a track large enough for them to practice on. If everything was pancars, then the equation of cash outlay is substantially lower, but still not cheap.

I fully realize that to go fast requires cubic dollars per -.1 second. And of those of you that think that mandating a plastic tub chassis is going to reduce costs, you are unfortunately mis-informed, or pulling the wool over your own eyes. While it will initially cost less to get one of these chassis running, maintenance will be just as costly.

I watch the top off-road drivers at my local track replacing whole cars every 3 months. No exaggeration. Off-road has the rigors of dust and dirt along with constant repeated jumps and bumps, and they use plastic tub chassis. On-road has boards that don't move that we hit at 2 - 3 times the speed with STOCK motors. I have also witnessed some faster drivers in on-road replacing their rollers every 6 months. Why? It is because the fresh is easier to work with, and will ultimately cost less than to refresh the whole chassis.

This hobby is what you make it. It can be low cost and something fun to do on a race night. Or it can get as intense as you want it. The fastest growing class at my home track right now is Speed Spec (200mm pan with no side damping) with silver cans, 4 cells. We will be moving this class over to 21.5s in the fall to keep the motor of the week club from cropping up. The people in this class find it a blast with plate chassis that need hardly any maintenance to place in the top. Obviously, people that spend a little extra time will reap the rewards, but most people will either sit around and bench race, or work on their 12th and/or sedans.

Plate chassis cars will always be lower cost to manufacture in low quantities, and tub chassis will always be cheaper in higher quantities, unless the global glut on oil continues to drive up the costs of making plastics...
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Last edited by timmay70; 06-05-2008 at 10:39 AM. Reason: typ-o
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:25 AM   #145
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Bumps ups in electric.

The JConcepts Clash and the RcSignUp SuperCup(both electric offroad races) tried doing bump ups and that added a little more fun to the electric racing. Every race down to the lower mains was entertaining to see who was going to bump to the show.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:15 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
I think that the more resounding question that is never getting answered is; Why is the group that insists that people that are good enough to get in the show at large events have to move on to modified where the costs of maintenance and time required grows exponentially? There are very few people these days that can fully fund a mod ride at the national level, and a lot of local tracks don't have enough racers or a track large enough for them to practice on. If everything was pancars, then the equation of cash outlay is substantially lower, but still not cheap.

I fully realize that to go fast requires cubic dollars per -.1 second. And of those of you that think that mandating a plastic tub chassis is going to reduce costs, you are unfortunately mis-informed, or pulling the wool over your own eyes. While it will initially cost less to get one of these chassis running, maintenance will be just as costly.

I watch the top off-road drivers at my local track replacing whole cars every 3 months. No exaggeration. Off-road has the rigors of dust and dirt along with constant repeated jumps and bumps, and they use plastic tub chassis. On-road has boards that don't move that we hit at 2 - 3 times the speed with STOCK motors. I have also witnessed some faster drivers in on-road replacing their rollers every 6 months. Why? It is because the fresh is easier to work with, and will ultimately cost less than to refresh the whole chassis.

This hobby is what you make it. It can be low cost and something fun to do on a race night. Or it can get as intense as you want it. The fastest growing class at my home track right now is Speed Spec (200mm pan with no side damping) with silver cans, 4 cells. We will be moving this class over to 21.5s in the fall to keep the motor of the week club from cropping up. The people in this class find it a blast with plate chassis that need hardly any maintenance to place in the top. Obviously, people that spend a little extra time will reap the rewards, but most people will either sit around and bench race, or work on their 12th and/or sedans.

Plate chassis cars will always be lower cost to manufacture in low quantities, and tub chassis will always be cheaper in higher quantities, unless the global glut on oil continues to drive up the costs of making plastics...
+1
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:44 AM   #147
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Tim, I think I agree with most of what you say, but there's one big problem. This is the way we have done things for at least 10 years, and it's not working! Slowly the numbers of racers is dwindling. We need something new to bring people into the hobby, and keep them. And pan car isn't it.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:39 PM   #148
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Personally I thinks it more simple than all that has been said previous, I live in the UK, and our so called government have put so many stealth taxes in place in the last 3ish years, that people simply DON'T have the monies to buy luxury's like we used to, just ask around, and guys that used to race will simply say, 'I can't afford to race any more' period, shame but fact, and its the same all over the world, tax this tax that. Example, Fuel/gas over here is now 1.20 a litre when this time last year it was around 1.00 that's $2 a litre crazy or what, but somehow I keep racing.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:45 PM   #149
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Except for the last 10 years we have been doing touring cars. In the last 10 years touring cars turned from a nice converted 4wd buggy asphalt racer with a large suspension to race in unprepared parking lots into awesome speed demons that have as many, if not more adjustments than an F1 car and requires an engineering degree to fully comprehend everything that can be adjusted.

You say that you want something that is simple and that will reduce costs. Then you fully discount a serious answer when it is handed to you. Is it because it wasn't your idea? Or is it because you never liked pan cars when they were popular 10 years ago? Is it because pan cars use foam tires, or because they use Nimh batteries? Is it because we will be racing these cars with realistic body shells and getting away from the generic bars of soap we are running in sedan now? I'm just curious why you think pan cars aren't the solution.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:51 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by TheCoolCanFanMan View Post
Personally I thinks it more simple than all that has been said previous, I live in the UK, and our so called government have put so many stealth taxes in place in the last 3ish years, that people simply DON'T have the monies to buy luxury's like we used to, just ask around, and guys that used to race will simply say, 'I can't afford to race any more' period, shame but fact, and its the same all over the world, tax this tax that. Example, Fuel/gas over here is now 1.20 a litre when this time last year it was around 1.00 that's $2 a litre crazy or what, but somehow I keep racing.
Cheers Malc ThecanMan
+1

As disposable income is depleted from the racing families, there will be less and less racing. Right now we need to find something that is more economical so that people will still have the money to race.

I stated it before, maybe in another thread, as one tax bracket can no longer afford to race, they will find another form of entertainment. There will be another tax bracket that may or may not grab hold of racing RC. I have seen this happening at RCE, and I'm not there that often.

Tracks and shops will have to grow and adapt if they are to keep on in this economy. I think it's the sad truth.
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