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Old 05-03-2013, 09:39 AM   #61
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We do need to make a distinction between club level and national level races, though. I agree with the above statement for 90% of clubs/tracks. But Stock at the national level is quite different. Showing up to IIC or Snowbirds with a D3 is going to pan out a little different than a club race.
I agree with you that at the highest level having the best stuff matters.

I will say that based on recent testing I don't think there is as big a difference between recent Trinity motors as most would think. I also think the Thunder Power Z3R's and Reedy Sonics 2's/Mach 2's are way under estimated by racers.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:48 AM   #62
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I have been racing for 26 years (most of the time as a broke kid, broke college grad, broke new dad). I never had the best gear but I have always been a top half of the A main guy. How? By learning to drive well and really understanding car setup. This is dirt cheap compared to batts, motors and chargers.

JOE SI is right on. You really do not need the motor/battery of the week to stay competitive. I have top of the line stuff now but I have been stuck mid pack in recent club races. I sold off my best motors because I thought they were slow and ordered new ones. I had to race last week with bottom of my pit box crap motors (an old D3 13.5 and and old TP 13.5). I TQd every round and won both of my mains wire to wire against guys with the latest stuff. I guess the newest motors are not that much better.

People should worry less about equalizing racing and doing more productive things like car maintenance, trying setup changes and turning a ton of laps.
Even at the national level there's a handful of guys needing the newest stuff to compete but it definitely plays a role when you're up there but for now I'm still trying to stay off the boards while racing on carpet, and on asphalt not so much but hitting the same line every time is what's going to make me faster..
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:23 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
We do need to make a distinction between club level and national level races, though. I agree with the above statement for 90% of clubs/tracks. But Stock at the national level is quite different. Showing up to IIC or Snowbirds with a D3 is going to pan out a little different than a club race.
Even some club level, as a lot of those national level guys tend to run somewhere during the week.

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Even at the national level there's a handful of guys needing the newest stuff to compete but it definitely plays a role when you're up there but for now I'm still trying to stay off the boards while racing on carpet, and on asphalt not so much but hitting the same line every time is what's going to make me faster..
So here is the rub that always annoys me in these threads. There is a LOT of gray area in the middle of the examples. We can all talk about the no named guy running a TC3 pieced together from a box of crackers and a rubber band who wins every week, and the new guy with $3k in gear who comes in last. Look at the middle majority though, which is where most of us are. We strive for that little edge because the fast middle guy and the slow middle guy are all finishing on the same lap a couple seconds apart and its usually that one extra bobble that makes the difference between winning or losing. Those are the people that are watching these threads looking for that 1/10th of a second advantage that can come through gear.

I am one of those middle folks. I win the occasional A-main at club level, qualify for the A at a little bigger events, B in bigger regional events. Last Wednesday, the same core group of us ran 17.5 TC together. Fast laps were all within 2-3/10ths, qualified and finished on the same lap. We practice similar amounts, race similar amounts, and we have a fun time playing with toy cars. If a $129 battery would give me a consistent 1/10th per lap, I'd probably buy it. That 4.5 seconds would have put me in 2nd instead of 4th last race, and would have won the race for 2nd or 3rd.

Gear matters. Practice and skill also matter. Setup matters. You can compensate one for another to varying extents, but not 100% to the exclusion of the others.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:41 PM   #64
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Even some club level, as a lot of those national level guys tend to run somewhere during the week.



So here is the rub that always annoys me in these threads. There is a LOT of gray area in the middle of the examples. We can all talk about the no named guy running a TC3 pieced together from a box of crackers and a rubber band who wins every week, and the new guy with $3k in gear who comes in last. Look at the middle majority though, which is where most of us are. We strive for that little edge because the fast middle guy and the slow middle guy are all finishing on the same lap a couple seconds apart and its usually that one extra bobble that makes the difference between winning or losing. Those are the people that are watching these threads looking for that 1/10th of a second advantage that can come through gear.

I am one of those middle folks. I win the occasional A-main at club level, qualify for the A at a little bigger events, B in bigger regional events. Last Wednesday, the same core group of us ran 17.5 TC together. Fast laps were all within 2-3/10ths, qualified and finished on the same lap. We practice similar amounts, race similar amounts, and we have a fun time playing with toy cars. If a $129 battery would give me a consistent 1/10th per lap, I'd probably buy it. That 4.5 seconds would have put me in 2nd instead of 4th last race, and would have won the race for 2nd or 3rd.

Gear matters. Practice and skill also matter. Setup matters. You can compensate one for another to varying extents, but not 100% to the exclusion of the others.
I agree but there are so many places that could get you more than 1/10th per lap that are free.

Having a buddy watch you practice and tell you where you are blowing corners to pinching lines would do more good.

Making sure your shocks are perfect, camber is even, suspension is moving free and the car is not tweaked would do more good immediately.

Rebuilding dry CVD's, replacing bad bearings and notched out drives would do more good.

Most mid pack racers just don't notice that sort of stuff then wonder why they are mid pack racers.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:19 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Even some club level, as a lot of those national level guys tend to run somewhere during the week.



So here is the rub that always annoys me in these threads. There is a LOT of gray area in the middle of the examples. We can all talk about the no named guy running a TC3 pieced together from a box of crackers and a rubber band who wins every week, and the new guy with $3k in gear who comes in last. Look at the middle majority though, which is where most of us are. We strive for that little edge because the fast middle guy and the slow middle guy are all finishing on the same lap a couple seconds apart and its usually that one extra bobble that makes the difference between winning or losing. Those are the people that are watching these threads looking for that 1/10th of a second advantage that can come through gear.

I am one of those middle folks. I win the occasional A-main at club level, qualify for the A at a little bigger events, B in bigger regional events. Last Wednesday, the same core group of us ran 17.5 TC together. Fast laps were all within 2-3/10ths, qualified and finished on the same lap. We practice similar amounts, race similar amounts, and we have a fun time playing with toy cars. If a $129 battery would give me a consistent 1/10th per lap, I'd probably buy it. That 4.5 seconds would have put me in 2nd instead of 4th last race, and would have won the race for 2nd or 3rd.

Gear matters. Practice and skill also matter. Setup matters. You can compensate one for another to varying extents, but not 100% to the exclusion of the others.
I also agree 1000%, in no way did I post on this thread to annoy anyone, being a new racer ( racing about 8 months, 3 electric) and having all the expensive stuff hasn't made me as fast as the guys in the A.. I'm just speaking from my experience.. Also I know that gear matters along with the other stuff you mentioned but only when you are at that level which I'm still not close to yet.. But coming into the hobby with brand new stuff probably did make it easier for me to learn how to drive, but will not put me in the top 10...
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