New technology and club racing- has it thinned out classes?
05-16-2008, 02:06 AM
#1
New technology and club racing- has it thinned out classes?
I cant help thinking that sometimes, with all the different combinations of motors and classes the racing has thinned out.
Do you make a purchase of new equipment just to keep up with the faster guys who have done the same? Or just keep racing the equipment you already have and fall into racing with a different ability of racer?
Obviously, brushed/brushless/lipo/nimh all have the ability to change a cars characteristics on acceleration and speed.... Then sometimes you have started to loose the close on track battles
Some clubs dont attract enough members as it is, and when the classes are thinned out... Then theres the cost of upgrading....
All i'm saying (I guess) is that i'm not suprised that some clubs struggle in todays racing...
There was still a big gap in performance (and the ability obviously) in the best 27t/19t racers at any meeting, but with brushless, the right combination of esc/motor and timing can give quite a big advantage these days
Now we have new technology and the meens of adjusting it for the last rpm and bit of torque, coupled with the latest 4600 cells, the cost of keeping up just seems at an all time high for some wanting to begin the hobby, or even to remain competitive.
Will this hobby remain to be the survival of the fittest in their bank balance?
Some will say thats racing, others may even agree with some of what ive written
Discuss...
Do you make a purchase of new equipment just to keep up with the faster guys who have done the same? Or just keep racing the equipment you already have and fall into racing with a different ability of racer?
Obviously, brushed/brushless/lipo/nimh all have the ability to change a cars characteristics on acceleration and speed.... Then sometimes you have started to loose the close on track battles
Some clubs dont attract enough members as it is, and when the classes are thinned out... Then theres the cost of upgrading....
All i'm saying (I guess) is that i'm not suprised that some clubs struggle in todays racing...
There was still a big gap in performance (and the ability obviously) in the best 27t/19t racers at any meeting, but with brushless, the right combination of esc/motor and timing can give quite a big advantage these days
Now we have new technology and the meens of adjusting it for the last rpm and bit of torque, coupled with the latest 4600 cells, the cost of keeping up just seems at an all time high for some wanting to begin the hobby, or even to remain competitive.
Will this hobby remain to be the survival of the fittest in their bank balance?
Some will say thats racing, others may even agree with some of what ive written
Discuss...
05-16-2008, 02:40 AM
#2
Thats racing in my opinion, you cant stop ppl spending big bucks to go quick. I will spend money to keep up but to a limit. It is expensive these days and yeah dosnt help with club members.
I thought going to 5 cell in mod would help with making it less expesive and easier for peoplel to keep up. and it did for a couple of months but then 4600 packs came out and even faster brushless motors then we were going back to new tires every run and rebuilding diffs every 5 mins.
I thought going to 5 cell in mod would help with making it less expesive and easier for peoplel to keep up. and it did for a couple of months but then 4600 packs came out and even faster brushless motors then we were going back to new tires every run and rebuilding diffs every 5 mins.
05-16-2008, 02:56 AM
#3
Tourings pretty close to dead at my local track as well. But off-road is doing fine. On any given Saturday there, on the off road side there are many, many people and not an inch of clear pit table space anywhere. At the same time, on the the on road side its just a handful of the same guys every week. I think its just a problem with touring cars in general, not racing overall.
For the novice, I can imagine that just looking at one of the new tc's can be intimidating. Nothing but belts, gears, and turnbuckles everywhere. Looks like you might have to take some kind of course to learn how to work on it. So, they come out with the simpler, cheaper, 200mm pan cars now. But I agree with your point, in a class thats already hurting, why add yet another class and divide things up even further? Off road appeals to kids more and is just more family friendly. I see a lot of fathers/sons there in offroad and none in touring.
For the novice, I can imagine that just looking at one of the new tc's can be intimidating. Nothing but belts, gears, and turnbuckles everywhere. Looks like you might have to take some kind of course to learn how to work on it. So, they come out with the simpler, cheaper, 200mm pan cars now. But I agree with your point, in a class thats already hurting, why add yet another class and divide things up even further? Off road appeals to kids more and is just more family friendly. I see a lot of fathers/sons there in offroad and none in touring.
05-16-2008, 03:37 AM
#4
There are plenty of other classes I could race, but to get a pittance for the ta05 I have now and have a brand new chassis sitting at home asking to be raced, I will be in sedan for a while yet
I just dont like seeing what is going on right now. It isn't right or good for the hobby. I will never be the one to spend lots on the hobby, but I will obviously race to the best of my ability when I do race
The UK is seeing inflation on pretty much everything you buy at the moment, (and a loss on property value) so the economy alone will hurt racing, in a way....
All you can do is promote the hobby as best as you can and help the less experienced out there....
I just dont like seeing what is going on right now. It isn't right or good for the hobby. I will never be the one to spend lots on the hobby, but I will obviously race to the best of my ability when I do race
The UK is seeing inflation on pretty much everything you buy at the moment, (and a loss on property value) so the economy alone will hurt racing, in a way....
All you can do is promote the hobby as best as you can and help the less experienced out there....
05-16-2008, 03:53 AM
#5
This hobby is going to kill it self . I know at my track we are going with a different rubber tire. Last years still works. Or theres a new raido out , someone who has not raced in while can come out and beat the hell out of you with old stuff. If you get caught in the lates greatest game,you will not be in this hobby long
05-16-2008, 04:16 AM
#6
This hobby has a lot of variables which can help or hinder racing...
In the right enviroment close racing can and will continue to grow, and get closer on the track.
Im not sure what the answer is, but as some suggestions already noted, feel free to make any other suggestions to help your clubs out there in need
In the right enviroment close racing can and will continue to grow, and get closer on the track.
Im not sure what the answer is, but as some suggestions already noted, feel free to make any other suggestions to help your clubs out there in need
05-16-2008, 05:29 AM
#7
The best thing our club ever did was switch to 13.5 brushless and rubber tires last winter. Its the best racing I'ver participated in. I really thought it was going to get big, but as good as it was, we struggled to get big turnouts.
I noticed that almost of our regular racers are over 30. And when I talk to people about racing (F1 or NASCAR or Moto GP) most of them are well over 30 too. I am realizing that people under 30 aren't into motorsports.
Maybe they are overly worried about the environment or afraid to compete or having trouble understanding timed events or whatever. I don't know what their problem is with racing, but, the first track that figures out how to get young people in the door and keep them coming back will have it made.
I noticed that almost of our regular racers are over 30. And when I talk to people about racing (F1 or NASCAR or Moto GP) most of them are well over 30 too. I am realizing that people under 30 aren't into motorsports.
Maybe they are overly worried about the environment or afraid to compete or having trouble understanding timed events or whatever. I don't know what their problem is with racing, but, the first track that figures out how to get young people in the door and keep them coming back will have it made.
05-16-2008, 05:46 AM
#8
The best thing our club ever did was switch to 13.5 brushless and rubber tires last winter. Its the best racing I'ver participated in. I really thought it was going to get big, but as good as it was, we struggled to get big turnouts.
I noticed that almost of our regular racers are over 30. And when I talk to people about racing (F1 or NASCAR or Moto GP) most of them are well over 30 too. I am realizing that people under 30 aren't into motorsports.
Maybe they are overly worried about the environment or afraid to compete or having trouble understanding timed events or whatever. I don't know what their problem is with racing, but, the first track that figures out how to get young people in the door and keep them coming back will have it made.
I noticed that almost of our regular racers are over 30. And when I talk to people about racing (F1 or NASCAR or Moto GP) most of them are well over 30 too. I am realizing that people under 30 aren't into motorsports.
Maybe they are overly worried about the environment or afraid to compete or having trouble understanding timed events or whatever. I don't know what their problem is with racing, but, the first track that figures out how to get young people in the door and keep them coming back will have it made.
Video Games
People this day and age are into instant gratification. Video games has it, racing has never been about it. When someone can get RC to be like video games, that will be the winning combination.
05-16-2008, 05:58 AM
#9
TC3 TEAM great thread youve started here!
My local area used to have a couple of clubs,an indoor touring car.and an outdoor offroad meeting both being 1/10 scale.
Now with all the different classes out there its no wonder things are slowing up.
I would like to see nitro banned for the enviroment,now with lipo brushless 1/8 scale cars it shouldnt be a problem,but that wont happen.
My take on the 1/10 touring cars is knock it down to 2 classes nationally.
first being the 19T/10.5 class and the other modified for the big boys.
Nimi should and will become absolete finished caput!!.
There is to much pissing about trying to keep them tip top. and they dont last to long either.
Brushed motors what a newbie killer.also to much pissing about!
nimi and brushed motors require great expense to get the best from them with dischargers,conditioners,balancers,comm laiths,and all the other brushed motor maintenance tools,
so for nimi you would spend £100 on a decent charger,£50 on a decent balance and discharge unit,plus 3 packs nimi your looking at a good £300 for decent setup.
lipo just requires a lipo charger and balance unit costing £100 and 2 lipos £150 and your away.no major soldering packs and worrying about shelf life with nimi.
Now brushless, buy motor drop it in car and your away.no skimming no brushes.no worries.
Its much easier now for newbies than its ever been.
My local area used to have a couple of clubs,an indoor touring car.and an outdoor offroad meeting both being 1/10 scale.
Now with all the different classes out there its no wonder things are slowing up.
I would like to see nitro banned for the enviroment,now with lipo brushless 1/8 scale cars it shouldnt be a problem,but that wont happen.
My take on the 1/10 touring cars is knock it down to 2 classes nationally.
first being the 19T/10.5 class and the other modified for the big boys.
Nimi should and will become absolete finished caput!!.
There is to much pissing about trying to keep them tip top. and they dont last to long either.
Brushed motors what a newbie killer.also to much pissing about!
nimi and brushed motors require great expense to get the best from them with dischargers,conditioners,balancers,comm laiths,and all the other brushed motor maintenance tools,
so for nimi you would spend £100 on a decent charger,£50 on a decent balance and discharge unit,plus 3 packs nimi your looking at a good £300 for decent setup.
lipo just requires a lipo charger and balance unit costing £100 and 2 lipos £150 and your away.no major soldering packs and worrying about shelf life with nimi.
Now brushless, buy motor drop it in car and your away.no skimming no brushes.no worries.
Its much easier now for newbies than its ever been.
Last edited by pug 205 gti; 05-16-2008 at 07:52 AM.
05-16-2008, 06:15 AM
#10
im still one of the old schoolers with nimh and brushed motors... its fun, but obviously not as quick as brushless.
A newcomer still stands half a chance of being competitive (in time) with a brushed motor, but the cheaper option of doing this will be no more soon if everyone made the jump to brushless.
The older brushless esc's and motors can be had for cheap if you go to the right places due to the newer,more favoured brushless setups
The initial outlay of money needed to start racing really does put a lot of people off and thats a shame.
The newcomer needs patience, a methodical approach to setting the car up (or assistance doing it) keeping on top of car repairs, gear ratios, charging...
Neither can you tell someone what they can or cant race with regards to motors and cells.
Ideally, the pro's would race brushless and the newcomers/intermediates race brushed setups, but why drive racers away enforcing something like that?
There is too much equipment out there giving a big difference in what our cars can or can't do..... It is of little suprise to see fewer starting up in racing. Some people will still find even a stock motor too powerful to race with and give up racing.
I like your ideas 205gti, the trouble is, whatever is changed usually hurts the pocket....
Cheaper support classes for the newcomer would be nice, but they are 99.9% unworkable in terms of equipment and ability.
A newcomer still stands half a chance of being competitive (in time) with a brushed motor, but the cheaper option of doing this will be no more soon if everyone made the jump to brushless.
The older brushless esc's and motors can be had for cheap if you go to the right places due to the newer,more favoured brushless setups
The initial outlay of money needed to start racing really does put a lot of people off and thats a shame.
The newcomer needs patience, a methodical approach to setting the car up (or assistance doing it) keeping on top of car repairs, gear ratios, charging...
Neither can you tell someone what they can or cant race with regards to motors and cells.
Ideally, the pro's would race brushless and the newcomers/intermediates race brushed setups, but why drive racers away enforcing something like that?
There is too much equipment out there giving a big difference in what our cars can or can't do..... It is of little suprise to see fewer starting up in racing. Some people will still find even a stock motor too powerful to race with and give up racing.
I like your ideas 205gti, the trouble is, whatever is changed usually hurts the pocket....
Cheaper support classes for the newcomer would be nice, but they are 99.9% unworkable in terms of equipment and ability.
05-16-2008, 06:23 AM
#11
It has definately thinned out classes where I race. With the introduction of brushless and lipo the NITRO class is almost now non-existant. Most have traded their nitro powered cars in the for the speed and ease of electric racing.
3 years ago when we started there were 4 regular (attended weekly) electric racers. Me and 3 kids. At the time we would have 16 or so nitro racers. Fastforward 3 years later and its pretty much the exact opposite.
3 years ago when we started there were 4 regular (attended weekly) electric racers. Me and 3 kids. At the time we would have 16 or so nitro racers. Fastforward 3 years later and its pretty much the exact opposite.
05-16-2008, 08:17 AM
#12
Cheerz TC3TEAM.
If there where two electric touring car classes.
modified explains its self really.nimi,s on the out and lipos in.
10.5/19T class
10.5/19T motors being the maximum power allowed.this would then let leaser experienced drivers have the chance of gaining experience using a lesser powered motor to gain the experience.then they could go on to 10.5 and mix it up front with the faster guys.
then regarding batteries you could just put a restriction on lipo power being that of mah or C.or both of them.
Maybe the manufacters should all pull together now.and see where they want this hobbie/sport to be in 2 years time before it to late.
i think 5000 mah its plenty.but i couldnt express my views on C rating as i dont fully understand it as yet.
So as i see it lipos low maintenance,long shelf life, and shit loads of power.
Brushless again low maintenance and shit loads of power.
This gives the racer and hobbist longer run times,less all round maintenance
thus giving more time to work on the car to ensure reliabilty and setup.
If half of those who used to race started up again using the modern technology we have today they wouldnt have quit racing in the first place.
peaple have lives to live and cannot spend all week skimming and fettling brushed motors and tarting about with nancy nimi batterys.
with work and all other lifes responsabilities I think brushless and lipo are the way forward.
Motorsport fans would also be more enthrolled if shells where somewhat more like the real thing, yes you hardcore racers may love the down force provided by these aerodynamics shells.But wouldnt a change mix things up slightly giving you more chioces to horn your setup skills to achieve the holy grail yet again.
Ive really enjoyed all your takes on this thread i just hope you can put up with mine
over and out
If there where two electric touring car classes.
modified explains its self really.nimi,s on the out and lipos in.
10.5/19T class
10.5/19T motors being the maximum power allowed.this would then let leaser experienced drivers have the chance of gaining experience using a lesser powered motor to gain the experience.then they could go on to 10.5 and mix it up front with the faster guys.
then regarding batteries you could just put a restriction on lipo power being that of mah or C.or both of them.
Maybe the manufacters should all pull together now.and see where they want this hobbie/sport to be in 2 years time before it to late.
i think 5000 mah its plenty.but i couldnt express my views on C rating as i dont fully understand it as yet.
So as i see it lipos low maintenance,long shelf life, and shit loads of power.
Brushless again low maintenance and shit loads of power.
This gives the racer and hobbist longer run times,less all round maintenance
thus giving more time to work on the car to ensure reliabilty and setup.
If half of those who used to race started up again using the modern technology we have today they wouldnt have quit racing in the first place.
peaple have lives to live and cannot spend all week skimming and fettling brushed motors and tarting about with nancy nimi batterys.
with work and all other lifes responsabilities I think brushless and lipo are the way forward.
Motorsport fans would also be more enthrolled if shells where somewhat more like the real thing, yes you hardcore racers may love the down force provided by these aerodynamics shells.But wouldnt a change mix things up slightly giving you more chioces to horn your setup skills to achieve the holy grail yet again.
Ive really enjoyed all your takes on this thread i just hope you can put up with mine
over and out
05-16-2008, 11:17 AM
#13
Personally, I think any change is good providing:
1) its well structured and thought about to cater for anyone
2) not too frequent to disturb a championship
and
3) if possible, not at too much expense to the club or its racers (always the difficult one!!!)
I raced a 19t wednesday evening at 5.4 and it felt plenty fast enough for me and ive raced for 13 years now. I think it could be too fast for a newcomer, but I like your way of thinking to slimline classes...
mixing brushed and brushless though.... it wont ever work, which is a real disadvantage for club racing if there is a low turnout....
ideally everyone should race b/l i guess... but thats in an ideal world
pug, anyones comments are welcome here, you cant describe rctech without mentioning "discussion forum"
1) its well structured and thought about to cater for anyone
2) not too frequent to disturb a championship
and
3) if possible, not at too much expense to the club or its racers (always the difficult one!!!)
I raced a 19t wednesday evening at 5.4 and it felt plenty fast enough for me
and ive raced for 13 years now. I think it could be too fast for a newcomer, but I like your way of thinking to slimline classes... mixing brushed and brushless though.... it wont ever work, which is a real disadvantage for club racing if there is a low turnout....
ideally everyone should race b/l i guess... but thats in an ideal world
pug, anyones comments are welcome here, you cant describe rctech without mentioning "discussion forum"
05-16-2008, 12:08 PM
#15
If anything its off road racing that should be flourishing, less abuse on cells or motors/esc as you are not on the power 100% as much as on road, tyres could possibly remain race worthy for longer too.
They are built for knocks and are usually pretty solid too, so less on repairs, gears are usually enclosed too, possibly making them longer lasting against the dirt. Suspension is open to the elements yes, but you can get covers for them
On road is the most expensive 1/10 class there is.... Its no wonder its dying a slow death. But you cant turn back time and make things slower again as it will also turn people off racing that liked the speed.
1/12th may be expensive on tyres, but its a cheaper, basic chassis layout so I am suprised newcomers don't get attracted to that?
They are built for knocks and are usually pretty solid too, so less on repairs, gears are usually enclosed too, possibly making them longer lasting against the dirt. Suspension is open to the elements yes, but you can get covers for them
On road is the most expensive 1/10 class there is.... Its no wonder its dying a slow death. But you cant turn back time and make things slower again as it will also turn people off racing that liked the speed.
1/12th may be expensive on tyres, but its a cheaper, basic chassis layout so I am suprised newcomers don't get attracted to that?