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Old 05-06-2010, 01:33 AM   #1456
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Scimitar Wide Pan




We can call this prototype the Scimitar Wide Pan, named after the curved blade top plate. It is a prototype on a spare chassis. Here is what is new.
  • Motor plate is moved 5 mm to the right giving an intermediate pod size between the narrow pod and the original Associated RC10 wide pod. Axles have similar support on both sides. The use of the wide pan hub now makes a car of decent width. 232 mm. The old style pod side metal is used for superior strength outdoors running the 3.5 motor. The hub extensions are no longer needed but can be used with standard 200 mm pan hubs.
  • The standard pod side metal allows a top plate which braces the top of the motor plate to the top of the left side pod plate. This prevents possible motor plate bending on a severe high speed bump where the pod hits the ground due to a too low ride height. It also allows a rear mounted top link. The forward end is now far back on the battery. This allows a minimized battery plate for less weight and cost. I would like to fit an O-ring to top load the battery instead of using the four screws from the bottom.
  • A new chassis will still have Nerf wings so the sides can be elevated for roll clearance. These Nerf wings will protect the axle, hold electronics for a rear weight bias. There will be much less overlap of the graphite needed reducing the amount of weight.
  • The 3-link rear end with vertical dampers (not shown) is retained. The dual A-arm front suspension is improved with a 3 rd point of support on the front top plate. The chassis will be stronger in the front with smooth sides all the way to the bumper. This will prevent some crush damage to the frame.
  • There is no doubt that the CRC adapted Losi Battery tray gets the LiPo as low as possible on the chassis. It is retained.
  • A new Panhard bar and mount using HD Dubro rod ends for a no modification install. It will be more rugged and farther forward than the present bar allowing huge pinions.
John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-prototype-pro-10-005.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-prototype-pro-10-006.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-prototype-pro-10-007.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-prototype-pro-10-2011-001.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 08-26-2010 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:15 AM   #1457
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I weep at the beauty. . .
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:02 PM   #1458
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Boomer- Thanks

JS Pro 10, Prototype 2011

Here is a nice looking battery hold down made by CRC. It consists of CRC Bigfoot Anchors and an O-ring. The edges of the tray prevent lateral movement. In most installations a servo will help prevent forward movement as well as the two tabs on the front of the battery tray (the tabs are removed on this tray).

the top plate is far enough back that the battery will lift in the front and can be removed over the servo. Test in my wide pan car will commence next week.

Some guys run this Losi Battery tray without front screws because it has a generous and sturdy lip at the front. I will test that at high speed. Omitting front battery mounting plates will clean up the appearance at the front without the full size battery top plate. I could not find suitable hooks to lower the cost a little.

At this point I have installed a standard servo. The battery can be easily removed over the servo. On the new chassis, the front of the chassis will be 1/2 inch per side wider at the suspension mounting points. There will be no notches or tabs to weaken the chassis. See the second pic. The sides will have a smooth curve all the way to the front bumper and thus slightly narrower than the CRC chassis just aft of the suspension points.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-prototype-pro-10-2011-001.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-js-pro-10-2010-001.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-06-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:24 PM   #1459
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With the standard CRC Gen 10 layout, can I cut a fair bit out of the top plate without it having any adverse handling effects?
I haven't used it yet, but fitting my lipo is a bit tricky and i'd like to remove most of the front carbon.
I will be running outdoor on asphalt with fairly low traction, and no additives are allowed.
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:50 PM   #1460
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JR 007- Yes, I had no trouble removing a lot of top plate from the front and the back. It is almost an X now. It might be a benefit outdoors by adding flex. On carpet you want to keep most all the material between the mounting screws.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:12 AM   #1461
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John, the HMS Group C P-Type 235mm shell fits your JS Pro10 perfectly. All the wheel centre markings are pressed into the lexan so that perfect alignment is easy. See link below.

http://www.rc-bodies.de/rc/Shopsyste...e3cf5ebd21cbee
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:14 PM   #1462
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Having some trouble setting up my car. I took it for it's first run at the track yesterday and it wasn't tooo flash. I'd say 50% my driving style (still race TC), 20% rear tyres are too hard, and 30% bad set-up.
I'm racing outdoor asphalt (large nitro track), medium grip, no additive allowed, 13.5 2cell Lipo.
The first thing, how do I add front droop? I have almost zero now, and I think i'm 3-wheeling around corners causing me to hook and spin.
I'm running a 200mm chassis, with kit set-up and the following:

Front:
6mm ride height
Red spring
5deg caster
1 deg camber
Jaco purples
No droop!

Rear:
7mm ride height
White side spring
10,000 weight damper tubes
17lb middle shock spring
AE 35weight oil
Jaco Pinks
About 1mm droop

Need a bit of help with hooking when coming out of corners. Entry and mid-corner turning is fine, destabilizes when I put of power unless i'm dead-flat out of a turn (most of that is driving style I guess)

Also, i'm running the diff pretty loose, like if I jam the throttle it will grind it's ass off. That helped the handling a LOT.

BTW, i'm the only one at the club with 1/10 pan, so no help available, trying to get a new class going
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:10 PM   #1463
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Jim thanks for the report on the body fit. Nice body. Good luck.

JR007-
Droop
Use the kingpin to add droop. It is threaded. unscrew the little brass set screw on the inside of the kingpin. Use a .050 allen to unscrew the kingpin a little from the bottom. Retighten the set screw with some Loctite or it will fall out on the track. Check droop at ride height. Now lift the chassis and observe the gap that develops between your steering knuckle and the lower A-arm pivot ball. That is your droop. Try 1.5 to 2 mm outside.

Jaco tires run a little harder than other brands. Try a BSR pink rear or an RC4less pink rear. That will help. Now learn the non TC throttle control. First right at corner exit when the car is almost straight you must delay throttle just an instant while wheels straighten. The car will hook to the inside board otherwise. Once past this delicate point slowly roll on throttle unlike a TC and reach full throttle maybe 15-20 feet from the corner. Believe it or not this condition is made worse by a front tire that is too hard. the outside rear is actually torquing the car to the inside and dragging those unloaded front wheels to the inside. Try a softer JACO front or go to a BSR purple or RC4less purple front.

If you are spinning out mid corner, reduce caster to 4 degree. That is two washers back and one washer front on the inner upper hinge pins.

Put carbide balls in the diff and never go back. You will have a tight as well as easy turning diff.

2011 JS Pro 10
Here is a spy shot of the chassis CAD. It will be off to the machinist this week. Certainly there are a lot of CRC influences in it. There are however quite a few changes to better suit it to the rigors of 65 mph racing. The front is now wider. I have been getting some crushing injuries where the front graphite is crushed along a line perpendicular to the chassis. Usually where the sides are noched for the front suspension or at the suspension holes which are very close to the edge. I have increased the width of available graphite at the front. Holes are far from the edge now. Bumper ears break off; they are removed. Hole damage to front screws; I have put more material there in front of the bumper mount screw holes. Hole damage to rearmost screws. I have put more material behind the holes. I plan to have holes to mount the standard TC sized servo and the standard half height servos, this time they will be perfectly centered. There will also be holes for Hightec Mighty mini and similar sized mini servos. Notice the lower pod plate mounted Panhard bar actually increases the size of the slenderest part of the frame at the back. The chassis is actually narrower just aft of the front supension so that the increased width in front does not spoil the good flex built in. It will have nerfwings out to the full rear tire width. Being a separate part will allow them to be shimmed up at the outer edge for roll clearance and up at the back for bump clearance. Less material will be needed in the Nerfwing lowering cost.

The elliptical model.

The Canadian JS Pro 10 finished 3rd of 8 in its second outing against other Pro 10's. Congratulations Ross.

Pic: view of bottom of chassis.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-2011-js-pro-10-frame0001.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-09-2010 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:01 PM   #1464
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A pic of my baby after her first day of battle.

One thing I noticed is that the king-pin is rummbing on the rim. Probably due to the aforementioned grub screw issue that I haven't noticed yet.

I'll have a look when I get home, but I alrady had no font droop as mentioned. If the king-pin DOES need to be moved out to create droop, it appears there isn't much wheel clearance. Is this an issue that has been apparent/dealt with?
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-crc-no-body.jpg  
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:05 PM   #1465
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I use the conical springs. I put the Pointy end down. I use no spring buckets or just a thin one on the bottom. The spring seats nicely on the snap ring at the bottom and the lower A-arm ball pivot recess. This clears up a little room for droop. Thanks for the pic. I will give it a look. Nice.
Now are those GRP tires up front. They would be good as well as BSR and identical to RC4less rubber.
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:13 AM   #1466
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You may be right about the tires. I'm not sure as I bought it second hand, and they are the rims it came with, all I know is the previous owner said they were purple.
If you took all of my pan knowledge and poured it into a cup, it would have evaporated before the sun came up. Hence the sometimes dopey questions.
There isn't anywhere in NZ to get tires, so I will have to order from overseas. The brand will depend on international shipping as much as type
What are Jaco greens like outdoors with medium power and medium traction? Will they wear super fast still?
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:06 AM   #1467
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Use ABS in the brakes?????
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:44 PM   #1468
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No. I've mucked around with it before on my 3PK, but find it makes the car behave a bit unpredictable
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:08 PM   #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR007 View Post
Having some trouble setting up my car. I took it for it's first run at the track yesterday and it wasn't tooo flash. I'd say 50% my driving style (still race TC), 20% rear tyres are too hard, and 30% bad set-up.
I'm racing outdoor asphalt (large nitro track), medium grip, no additive allowed, 13.5 2cell Lipo.
The first thing, how do I add front droop? I have almost zero now, and I think i'm 3-wheeling around corners causing me to hook and spin.
I'm running a 200mm chassis, with kit set-up and the following:

Front:
6mm ride height
Red spring
5deg caster
1 deg camber
Jaco purples
No droop!

Rear:
7mm ride height
White side spring
10,000 weight damper tubes
17lb middle shock spring
AE 35weight oil
Jaco Pinks
About 1mm droop

Need a bit of help with hooking when coming out of corners. Entry and mid-corner turning is fine, destabilizes when I put of power unless i'm dead-flat out of a turn (most of that is driving style I guess)

Also, i'm running the diff pretty loose, like if I jam the throttle it will grind it's ass off. That helped the handling a LOT.

BTW, i'm the only one at the club with 1/10 pan, so no help available, trying to get a new class going
You don't mention the negative camber blocks ?
You must run at least the -5 ones and never the 0 ones
This will give you more initial turm in, but will then give you less steering as you exit a corner.
That is -5 blocks, and 2 castor spacers in front (one behind)
this should reduce and maybe remove the hooking effect
(corner exit understeer)
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:34 PM   #1470
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I have the 5 blocks in. It was a guess to use those, so lucky
I noticed last night that the kingpins were sitting fairly low. One was just nichking the inside of the wheel, the other had the grubscrew backed out and was fully rubbing the wheel. I think that may have been a lot of my problem!
I'll reset them before the next meet. I think if I set about 2mm droop I will have 1mm clearance of the kingpin to the wheel which will be fine.
If the front are coning, do I reduce camber? I checked the camber, and one side was about 1, but the other was just over 1.5.
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