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Old 07-25-2009, 11:46 AM   #976
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Then can i expect some help next time out? I'll be there early to test setups, gearing, run line and scrutinize lap times. I'm roughly a half second off the pace and that was my first time out.

Or even better, any chance of getting a test and tune session in? I'm on summer vacation and have all the time in the world until Aug 14. I'd be willing to drive 2 hours one way to get in a day's worth of testing.


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99% of the time 3 pinks and a purple rf work best..you can try the cheapo tires but may find tire wear is not as good as the pinks..

pejota this is katf1sh try not to read too much into this thread..alot of bad info for florida oval racing...bannanas is all i can say...
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:51 AM   #977
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Originally Posted by pejota View Post
Then can i expect some help next time out? I'll be there early to test setups, gearing, run line and scrutinize lap times. I'm roughly a half second off the pace and that was my first time out.

Or even better, any chance of getting a test and tune session in? I'm on summer vacation and have all the time in the world until Aug 14. I'd be willing to drive 2 hours one way to get in a day's worth of testing.
Katfish is talking about 3 pinks and a purple for oval racing. I hope your running the CRC X-10 on road course
Shoot me a e-mail with your set-up and i'll help you out
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Old 07-25-2009, 03:21 PM   #978
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the problem with testing is the track..if it is not blown off and sugar watered you are waisting your time...testing is done the day of the race when you get there when the gates open...


tires are the easy part 3 pinks and a purple rf
if you choose bsr tires there pink tire is softer than the other brands so you would need 3 double pinks and a purple or team purple on the rf..

long gone are the days of tire scrub and harder tires are faster...plant the rear make it steer..it is so damn easy to free a car up..but so damn hard fighting a loose car on hard azz tires...even the slow classes at da birds guys ran pearl lr tires..

things that do not slow you down..

wings...air is free use it
pink rear tires
rear spoiler yup air is free
not enough tweak spinning your wheels
not enough gear

things that slow you down

hard tires
large tires cut them down to 2.25 at least
tweak too much will kill you out of the corner
front end built crappy...90% of the oval car is in the front end
cutting corners and trying to go as fast as guys who have been doing this for years and years..
getting bad advice won't help ya either...


you must do all the little stuff right

build a sweet front end
build a sweet diff
build the shocks correctly
get the car as light as possible..weight kills
mount the body correctly
make sure your ride height is correct if your 9mm your too damn high if your 3.5 mm your too low!
put some rake in the chassis 6mm rear 5 mm front
do not paint a 10lb body! weight kills
check your toe in no toe in very little toe out a CH of toe out
make sure your pack doesn't move in the car
new bearings are fast bearings
esc wire TQ products 13gauge rocks!
make sure the deans plug is clean with good contact
do not ever never ever mount any electronics higher than the chassis!!!
don't over think what the manufacturer designed the R5 front end is a work of art...you need nothing for it to work correctly...

polish king pins and pivot balls
make sure everything is free but not loose or wobbly....
you can't build a oval kit from the ground up in 10 hours! take your time
set your radio...do you need all that steering travel? nope
camber and castor are small adjustments but often add or subtract a tenth from a lap!
rear steer and trailing or leading the front end are also adjustments that can add or subtract a tenth or more a lap!
are your tires chunked or the rims bent?


the #1 tip no one ever does on race day.......ASK A FAST GUY GIVE HIM YOUR CAR LET HIM WHEEL IT

WE WILL NOT COME OVER AND TELL YOU WHAT TO DO..this always gets confused as a know it all type attitude...billy bruce rich boehmler myself bean man the list goes on and on...you ask we help...

#2 tip wheel time can you go straight on the straight? do you lap after lap come an inch from the pipe in the corner? those things add up to tenths in a hurry..miss a corner and lose 10 feet easy..

sorry to hack your thread john...but pejota is a local racer who will benefit from local help

lova ya bill


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Old 07-25-2009, 03:54 PM   #979
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Took it to PM john...
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Old 07-25-2009, 07:52 PM   #980
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katfish-
"but so damn hard fighting a loose car on hard azz tires..."

In my opinion using pink Rears is a bandaid for exactly the problem you describe above. If you fix the car so that it will exit straight from the corners then you can use the BSR xxpink or even the xxpink purple on high traction days. Your lap times will get lower. It is silly to use a tire that makes the lap times higher. When I test the pink against the XXpink in two adjacent heats the double xx pink wins. Yes you have to test on race day. You have to use the time sheet. And then in the end you reccomend the same BSR XXpink tires that I did. That is after you lay these turds in my thread about bad advice. Go somewhere else. Start your own thread.
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:11 PM   #981
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man and i said i loved ya? lot's of anger i sense! lol

where did you finish at the birds? oval masters? anywhere in fla? hard tires are the devil..plant the rear make it steer! maybe hard tires are a bandaid for lack of tuning knowledge on a front end?

carpet is the most bite available out of any surface we race toy cars on...every driver in the 17.5 2 cell class at the birds after 5 million laps and god knows how much traction laid down all used 3 pinks and a purple or pearl rears....wouldn't your thinking require plaid rears or at least purple rears?

please explain why they don't run hard azz tires?
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:03 AM   #982
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Does anyone know if the crc's 4260-low roll center kit is out of production. A few weeks ago it was still on crc's website but now it doesn't show up anymore. I hope i am not too late !
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:36 AM   #983
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I tested the low roll center kit on the 1/10 scale. There was no noticeable change in handling. Skip this mod.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:59 AM   #984
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Periodically I test some new batteries. Here are the results.

SMC 6000 mA-h 28 C hard case after 8 or so cycles. Usually a battery test pretty new at this point. ROAR approved

#1, 7.19 V average at a 20 A discharge, 5488 mA-h
#2, 7.14 V average at a 20 A discharge, 5350 mA-h
Some swelling noted on this number 2 pack at only 122 F on the track. These packs are not that good for hot 100 F plus weather in a high drain application like open mod touring on a large track.

Thunderpower 5000 mA-h 40c hard case ROAR approved
#1 7.46 V average at a 20 A discharge, 5211 mA-h
#2 7.46 V average at a 20 A discharge, 5244 mA-h

Thunder power 3200 mA-h 40 C hard case, ROAR approved.
7.465 V average (two tests)at a 20 A discharge, 3250 mA-h average (identical on two tests)

Flight Light 4000 mA-h (budget pack)(not ROAR approved)
7.23 V at a 20 A discharge, 4083 mA-h

Orion 3800 carbon Edition pack, ROAR approved
#1, 7.04 V at a 20 A discharge, 3461 mA-h
#2, 7.15 V at a 20 A discharge, 3250 mA-h (only packs I have tested that did not meet capacity specs when new, this really sucks)

The Thunder power packs have the best ever voltage in my tests. In the heat you have to gear down about "1/2 tooth (48 pitch) over the SMC packs as the motors are that much more powerful. In a track test yesterday with track temps at 137 F the Thunderpowers did not swell at all. Temp of the pack was a modest 126 F at 3.5 minutes. I did not get a full 6 minute run though. The SMCs swell badly at this ambient temperature in a high drain car like an open mod wide pan or open mod TC with good traction.

I would not buy a pack that has not been safety tested by a third party. ROAR has provided us this service. Take advantage. Not only you RC car, but your full size car used to transport the pack, and your house are at stake. Use a LIPO sock when charging. Use a LIPO sock to store charged batteries.

Charging at greater than 1.25C dramatically reduces lifetime. Heating reduces lifetime. ROAR requires a 1C charge rate for racing and no pack heating. I suggest you follow suite at your club races.
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-27-2009 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:43 AM   #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTHER FOCAR View Post
the problem with testing is the track..if it is not blown off and sugar watered you are waisting your time...testing is done the day of the race when you get there when the gates open...

. . .snipped a lot. . .

lova ya bill


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Focar - I don't run Oval, but it really seems to me that you're either waay overgeneralizing (to the point of damaging your advice) or you're putting a lot of bandaids on things.

For instance -

Wings CAN slow you down - too little and you have to slow down; too much and you've increased drag which will slow you down.

Pink rears? too much grip in the rear (compared to a balanced setup) will mean you push. Get mechanical grip and you can run whatever is appropriate (heck, it may BE pinks for your track. . . it was either Pinks or Greens at SoCalRC, it was only Greens at Camarillo, and it was only Pinks at Rev. . . all outdoor paved on-road - and I think it may have been a bandaid. . . the 10L2's never had much mechanical grip. . .) but if you insist on one tire, you limit yourself. This thread has been all about finding mechanical traction first and foremost.

And just because that's what they used at Snowbirds doesn't mean it's right everywhere. A: Snowbirds was carpet (Ozite?) which is an entirely different game - same principles work (shoot for mechanical bite and work from there) but the friction coeff is all different. I would bet that they used pink so they could stiffen the CRAP outta the car and eliminate almost all roll - now all the flex is in the tire. Just my bet.

Not enough gear - works for oval I guess, but too much gear means no acceleration in on-road. Perhaps that's what the guy was talking about, but it's again an overgeneralization.

I could go on, but I wanted to keep this along the lines of what the thread is really all about - taking a good car and finding ways to give it more and more mechanical grip.

So I would reiterate what John said - look at what you're doing and make sure it isn't just slapping a bandaid on it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:56 AM   #986
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Boomer,

Interesting what you write about the rc10L2. I still drive a rc10l2, with a little modification of dampertubes.

Do you know how i would get more mechanical grip in a L2? Really curious as i am fighting for grip . Or is just something that i just need to live with?
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:52 PM   #987
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boomer i think your thread states you run a 10l2.5 ?

i just can't compete or explain to you what makes you fast and what makes you slow....you are 10 years behind on car development....you win...we all should run plaid rear tires and just live with it! lol
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:08 PM   #988
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katfish-no one here has recommended plaid or purple tires on the rear of an oval car. BSR XX pink for the most part which is also what you recommended the second time you posted.
After Nitros have run on our track for two days of hard racing there is high traction. On these days a double XX pink/purple works well. It does not act like a purple but like a narrow xx pink. Scrub is reduced.

You make up lies on tires (that we recommend purple and plaid) and then use them to defend your position. If you have never tried xxpin/purple tires on high traction days then STFU.

You are not RC god although you have quite a god complex. Or is it a Prima Donna complex.

You make arguments on wings and yet you have probably only tried the one overly heavy, overly high center of gravity, poorly supported, fragile, inefficient oval wing. You probably like that fragile graphite bumper. Very oval traditional stuff. Yeah so everyone runs them on the oval. Ask me if I care if everyone runs the wrong wing or the wrong bumper. If I put on one of my road wings on and the 20 lap average on the first oval run beats the 20 lap average of the oval wing in four different positions then I think I am going to run the better wing. I am not much affected by your traditions.

You seem mighty impressed by the pattern of lightening holes in an oval chassis. You marvel!!!! You can't see through the crap and realize the oval T-plate cars have not changed at all in 10 years except maybe to become more delicate. OK well maybe the pod is more offset now than 20 years ago.

There are plenty of guys on this thread that fill in gaps in my knowledge in a polite manner. I welcome them. A good way to start is to say I disagree.

People like you drive people out of the sport. Is that your main intent on the WEB to drive people out of the sport.

People all over the world read and contribute to this thread. Your attitude is a very poor export.
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-27-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTHER FOCAR View Post
boomer i think your thread states you run a 10l2.5 ?

i just can't compete or explain to you what makes you fast and what makes you slow....you are 10 years behind on car development....you win...we all should run plaid rear tires and just live with it! lol
It's all I've got right now, in the pan car arena. I don't run oval - never wanted to. I like turning Right as well as Left. . . and I've found that MOST oval guys are stuck on one formula wins - it's THIS thing and don't try anything else because it's THIS thing. . . I like innovation, which is why I follow John's threads.

But also note I said 10L2.5 (in my siggy - yep, that little thing at the bottom of all my posts. . .) which is not a 10L2 - it's modified significantly.

Did you happen to read my post? I said that just sticking with one tire is putting a bandaid on the problem - look for mechanical grip - which is what I tried to do with my 10L2.5 - NOT putting plaid rear tires on and live with it. . . THAT is outdated. . .
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:48 AM   #990
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Quote:
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Boomer,

Interesting what you write about the rc10L2. I still drive a rc10l2, with a little modification of dampertubes.

Do you know how i would get more mechanical grip in a L2? Really curious as i am fighting for grip . Or is just something that i just need to live with?
I'm planning to build a modified version of John's three-link rear. Right now mine doesn't use the t-bar except as a link - it's three-shock, for what it's worth.
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