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Old 05-30-2009, 04:17 AM   #871
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hows this one? almost same specs at low price.
Hitec HS-225MG Mighty Mini BB MG Servo
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXN667&P=M
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:16 AM   #872
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That is the analog version I mentioned. It is good also. The analog version works a little different than the digital as far as track manners. A digital servo will turn to a point and hold very strongly at that point. An analog servo will turn to the same point and then drift a little and require further correction. I tend to drive with constant correction in a corner so I would not notice the difference. Some guys on indoor asphalt set the radio up to turn the wheel all the way to lock in the corner. They noticed the drift. There is a Kimbrough red medium servo saver that fits this servo without adapters. I like that a lot.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:55 AM   #873
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3-link Wide Gen X 10

This is going to be a series of posts describing a front suspension upgrade for the Gen X 10. I plan to do it using existing chassis holes. I will use as many stock parts as possible to reduce cost. First note the Pivot ball and plastics that will form the inner A-arm pivots. They will be attached to a modified chassis extension and along with an attached lower A-arm will form nice sleek looking lower A-arm extensions. The new suspension will have unequal length A-arms and a damper. This suspension will prevent blowovers and will corner better when using powerful motors in the wide pan outdoors on a big track.

Pic 2 shows the completed A-arm extensions. I used the tapered Dremmel Diamond bit to enlarge the inner most hole on the pointy ends. This hole will accept an 8 x 32 flat head screw to screw on the lower arms. I used a hole template to mark 3/8 inch holes centered on the middle position on the other side and moved the hole a bit to center it in the stock to keep things strong. I started these large holes with the tapered diamond tip up to the size of the sanding drum and then finished up with this small sanding drum. Track width will be reduced 2 mm over stock and will be closer to the 212 mm width that I like from outer wheel edge to outer wheel edge.

pic 3 shows the arm extensions after drilling three .082 inch holes to clear the small #2 x 56 TPI button head screws threads. I was able to get three of the four in solid enough material. The plastics can then be drum sanded flush and disk sanded smooth.
I inserted the snug fitting plastic. I marked the three holes with a sharp scratch awl. I center punched the holes with the Starrett automatic center punch while the part was under a magnifying glass. Then at the drill press, I used the small center drill to start the hole followed by a Titanium Nitride Coated Cobalt drill in a .082 inch size.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-upgrade-002.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-upgrade-extensions-002.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-drill-.082-inch.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-31-2009 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:18 PM   #874
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Lower Arms Complete

There are new pics and discussion above

I finished the lower arms. You must adjust the tiny screws on the pivot balls until the arms will drop free by gravity alone. I decided to mount the lower arms from the bottom which is a change from my previous front suspension. This will lower the center of gravity. It will lower the lower pivot to the bottom most part of the wheel. The more widely spaced the suspension pickup points in the wheel, the stronger the camber support for the wheel. The coil over shock will also have more clearance.
Roll center will still be adjustable by moving the inner pivot up or down and by moving the upper inner or outer arm pivot up or down. Camber will adjust in our normal pan car manner but in this suspension the camber adjustment will not change the roll center.

I did end up trimming off the now unneeded frame triangles that were under the arms.

Install Lower Ball Studs
Use a little end mill or a zip bit for tile and create a little flat area for the ball stud to seat. The ball stud will be installed about 30 degrees from the vertical. Start the hole with the X-Acto knife point. Drill at a 30 degree angle from the vertical. The third pic shows the ball studs installed with one shock attached. The fourth pic shows the exit of the ball stud hole.

Measure for Top Deck
A small top deck will support the reactive caster blocks, (upper inner suspensions arm mounts). I plan to use the new square section CRC top arms as they are a better shape for my shock location. I also want to use them in the longball configuration (long upper arm). I had a 1/12 stiffening brace which you can trim to obtain two inboard locations to mount the reactive caster block. I installed these to the bottom of my arms. The two holes on each side that would ordinarily support the inner suspension brace will be my location for holes in the top deck. This will insure correct caster. I shimmed my arms until this temporary graphite was nice and flat to the bottom of the chassis to minimize measurement errors. The two front screws that hold the A-arm inner pivots will also support the top deck on 1/2 inch standoffs. This was a very good way for me to get all these hole locations in the same plane for good measuring. A little CAD diagram will follow. The main dimensions are 2 5/32 inch front hole spacing (left A-arm front screw to right A-arm front screw. .300 inch back and .680 inch to the side to center of the forward upper suspension arm mount hole. .650 caster block mount hole spacing. I will need the alloy reactive caster blocks as they have the space in the middle where I mount the shocks top.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-lower-arms-finished-001.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-lower-arms-finished-003.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-install-ball-studs-002.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-install-ball-studs-003.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-measure-top-deck.jpg  

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Last edited by John Stranahan; 06-01-2009 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:16 PM   #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
There is a Kimbrough red medium servo saver that fits this servo without adapters. I like that a lot.
Hi John,

All cool stuff above...

The savers with the adaptors has been best for me. While the servo shaft is in its neutral position, you can use the differences between the teeth in the servo arm and the teeth in the adaptor part to get the servo saver perfectly vertical (or otherwise if desired). I usually can't get the brand specific servo savers to their optimum position otherwise.

Just passin' it on.

Cheers!

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Old 05-31-2009, 04:53 PM   #876
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Bill thanks for the post. I have stripped a couple of adapters in use. Never the red servo saver.

Note there are new pics and text in my previous post.

Layout the Top Plate
I covered my graphite sheet with white labels. I used a Hermaphrodite caliper shown in the picture to layout the part. First, the measure from the end of the ruler to the scale (marked in 100 ths) is set on the caliper. I then drag the caliper along the edge of the graphite which leaves a fine scratch. Accuracy of the results is .002 -.005 inch. Where I need a hole, two fine scratches cross. I then use a magnifier and the automatic hole punch to set a punch mark for the hole. This will be followed by a center drill and then drilled to .114 inch diameter. The outermost holes will require a countersink for the reactive caster blocks to seat in. This will then be followed by the Dremmel diamond blade which is an excellent tool for cutting graphite. Wear a respirator. Contours will be sanded in on the belt sander and with the Dremmel drum sander.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-layout-top-deck-001.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-31-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:49 PM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
Bill thanks for the post. I have stripped a couple of adapters in use. Never the red servo saver.

Note there are new pics and text in my previous post.

Layout the Top Plate
I covered my graphite sheet with white labels. I used a Hermaphrodite caliper shown in the picture to layout the part. First, the measure from the end of the ruler to the scale (marked in 100 ths) is set on the caliper. I then drag the caliper along the edge of the graphite which leaves a fine scratch. Accuracy of the results is .002 -.005 inch. Where I need a hole, two fine scratches cross. I then use a magnifier and the automatic hole punch to set a punch mark for the hole. This will be followed by a center drill and then drilled to .114 inch diameter. The outermost holes will require a countersink for the reactive caster blocks to seat in. This will then be followed by the Dremmel diamond blade which is an excellent tool for cutting graphite. Wear a respirator. Contours will be sanded in on the belt sander and with the Dremmel drum sander.
John,

Do you have a degree in technical writing or what? I understood everything...

Bill
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:58 PM   #878
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"Hermaphrodite caliper"

i think this is one of the funniest things i have ever seen
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:07 PM   #879
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Oddleg calipers, Hermaphrodite calipers or Oddleg jennys, or just plain Ol' Jennys, as pictured on the left (Sorry, no pic), are generally used to scribe a line a set distance from the edge of workpiece. The bent leg is used to run along the workpiece edge while the scriber makes its mark at a predetermined distance, this ensures a line parallel to the edge.

LOL...Bill
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:44 PM   #880
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You can't buy one if you don't know what they are called. Seems like there are a lot of sexual terms thrown in with our machinery. In this case it just means two kinds of arms.

Well Bill in a way I do.

Thanks for the posts guys.

Next Generation Pan
Here is the front end almost complete on the right side. I planned to have the arms supporting a maximum length pin. I can go about .1 inch longer on the pin and will have my desired roll center. The outer upper arm will move up that .1 inch. Having a long pin gives the arms maximum control of tire camber. Having that lower arm bolted to the bottom of my extension while using a long pin gives me just a tad more room for my shock as well as it lowers the center of gravity. The shock should fit using CRCs yellow rod end (for LosiT). I have to get that part in. The just completed upper plate fits well. Note that I shortened the new style A-arm and also the rod end to bring my camber into range. I may have to reverse the top cap to bring my caster into a better range, but this is easy with the Aluminum reactive caster blocks.

This front end fits with clearance under the Peugeot 905B wide pan body.

Boomer asked a while ago why this car did not wear a Double A-arm front end. Well now it does.

I propose this car as the next generation wide pan or narrow pan. We will have to see how narrow pans do over time. If they prosper it will lead eventually to wide pans at bigger tracks. The car has: a 3-link rear end; custom nerf wings to put electronic weight low and back; Dual dynamic A-arm front end with full damping to come.

Custom Made Standoff
I am using a custom modified 1/2 inch standoff made from a CRC part. I thought I would describe the method I use because I can make it in front of the TV now. This part had to be through drilled and threaded and then shortened. I will describe the shortening as you may find a use for it. I have a battery operated drill driver now. I chuck a part like this on a 4-40 threaded shaft which has a smooth section in the drill. I then use the Dremmel with a sanding drum (or cutoff wheel) and work the part while its rotating. You can take an 1/8 inch off the part surprisingly quickly with the sanding drum and end up with a good flat bottom and nice surface finish on the end removed which happens to be down. It's like grinding a part on a small lathe. Also note that CRC sells a nice 1/2 inch hourglass standoff which is also very suitable for this task with no mods needed.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-top-deck-finished.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 06-01-2009 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:48 PM   #881
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King Pins Finished
I made a couple of 1.7 inch kingpins from old shock shafts. I made a groove for a e-clip while turning it in the drill driver and scoring it with a cuttoff wheel. I achieved the upper A-arm angle I was looking for. Dropping down off the wheel. This will give me a good low roll center. I achieved the wide outer arm spacing I was looking for to keep camber in control. The arms basically can exert more torque on the kingpin the wider they are spaced. The very top of that center body post is the level of the hood on the low GTP bodies. I am under that. The only thing left is to make it all smooth and put on the coild over shocks. I have parts coming.

I have unequal length A-arms in a tested length difference. Roll centers are adjustable with washers below lower arms, above standoff posts, CRC roll center kit, and adustment to spacing at the wheel. The entire suspension comes off with four screws. The suspension should be as stout as a standard pan car suspesion. Camber and caster are adjusted the same as normal for pan cars.

I installed that Hitec servo of recent discussion with the red servo saver on the stock GenX10 mounts. Ackerman adjustment came out well with the steering links running perpendicular to the frame.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-king-pins-finished.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-front-suspension-king-pins-finished-001.jpg  
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:11 PM   #882
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Home of the 2010 1/10 Nitro Worlds

The new asphalt is complete. Grip is outstanding for the pan car. Layout to come.

Wide Gen X 10 Dual A-arm front end
I received my shock parts and installed the RC18T front shocks after a rebuild. I used Losi Shock ends on the shafts this time. I think the CRC yellow ends provided a better fit, so I will get in a set with my next CRC order.

I used associated inner hinge pins part # 7209 for the kingpins. They measured 1.7 inch long. I used .075 inch thick plastic spacers above the steering arm from RC4less.com. I cut the lower spacers from some Lunsford Super duty rod ends that had a bigger hole than our normal rod ends.

I tested an almost identical front suspension on the new asphalt and it was just outstanding.

The rear suspension is a 3-link with Panhard bar which was adapted to this car using many CRC parts and the stock tweak springs used in bump and roll now.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-mikes-hobbyshop-com-track-surface-finished-6-3-2009-004.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-gen-x-10-dual-arm-front-end-002.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-gen-x-10-dual-arm-front-end-003.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-gen-x-10-dual-arm-front-end-004.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-gen-x-10-dual-arm-front-end-006.jpg  

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Old 06-06-2009, 08:31 AM   #883
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Wide Gen X 10 Next Generation,
Panhard Bar Mount improvement

I had the left side panahard mount ball nut attached to a single post made of two 1/8 inch model Aircraft wheel collars. The advantage was the part was already drilled and threaded with a through hole and a 4-40 thread at right angles. I filled it with red loctite, but still wondered whether it would spin on the screw in a crash. Well it did. Here is the improved version using an existing but nearby chassis hole. I used two posts and connected the tops with a short all thread cut from a screw. This should hold up. Test to come.

The pic shows a good view of the CRC shock tower that used to be part of the center shock mount. It shows the tweak spring that now becomes a main spring and, the original sized tweak plates. The pod is off and resting on top of the car.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-wide-gen-x-10-panhard-bar-mount-improved-002.jpg  
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:45 AM   #884
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Old 06-15-2009, 12:32 AM   #885
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John, here are some pics of a F1 version of the 3 link rear coversion using the Corally F1 chassis in both saddle and in-line battery pack versions using a lot of your good ideas...cars ran really well against all the others on debut with no testing.
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-f1a.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-f1b.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-f1c.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-f1d.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-f1e.jpg  

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