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Old 05-01-2009, 11:20 AM   #826
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about MLP. He has been making Indi cars for quite a while. Owners seem to be satisfied. His foray into touring cars was a disaster. Lessons were learned though. He now has a good subcontractor doing some of the graphite work. I checked the web site. I could not find a picture of the WGT chassis showing any detail. I would at least wait for that before I purchased one. See if you can find a picture of the current car and give us a link.

The CRC would be my choice as well, certainly get the CRC to run LiPo.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:36 AM   #827
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I am sure you saw these at the site, but the best shots I could find:











I believe in Marty's forum he said that this car has an option for LiPo.

Sorry to hijack the CRC thread, I ain't goona be that guy that posts the "what car is the best" and you guys seem to know pan cars. I was kinda' hoping someone owned the Viper WGT?
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:00 PM   #828
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i don't believe two shocks in a configuration like that is something you want. There is no individual adjustments between centershock and side shock.

Not to dog anyone but if you want to sell your stuff you should do an efford to put on some clear pics that shows something.

I always wonderd why the website of MLP is just showing pictures of bodies and no clear pictures of the chassis. I am not interested in pictures of bodies. Even the pictures above are dark and not showing that much. Look at the pictures of CRC or from other brands and see what i mean. It is just an observation that is all. If they would show good pictures of there pro10 235mm model i think people would want to buy it.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:34 PM   #829
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Are you seeing pan cars in your area? If so what track are you seeing the crc?

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I have recently become very interested in a 1/10 pan and have noticed the CRC stuff seems to have the largest following?

Does anyone have any input about Marty's MLP Viper products? His 200mm WGT seems top notch...
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Old 05-01-2009, 04:27 PM   #830
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about the MLP car. I did not find those pics. Thanks. It is a little hard to tell what is going on due to the quality of the pics. Here is what I think.

The car has several novel features compared to everyone elses car. First the double shock rear end. All of my custom pans have a double shock rear end. There is no problem at all in setting tweak and ride height with double rear shocks. There is a weight savings. This has been used before as early as the Bolink cars. Two shocks take the pounding from bumps. If you are running outdoors in the bumps, this is good.

The chassis has many Calandra Pantoura traits. The first two pics may actually be Pantoura chassis with a reshaped nose. That was a good chassis, though. I cannot see clearly but believe the car would then be a center pivot side link car like the Pantoura and the more Recent GenX10. There is no T-plate needed. With a longer option battery brace it would hold LiPo's well as did my Pantoura.

The front suspension is totally different from the rest. It will have more traction on asphalt due to long arms. Caster can be set with the two adjustable upper camber links. I have not heard good reports on this setup as the settings change in a crash. Speeds are low in World GT so this may not be a problem at all.

If you like MLP give it a try. You will certainly have something different but Pantouraesque in the middle.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:13 PM   #831
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Thanx for the feedback! Solid info and I really appreciate it.

@espresso - my craptacular guess about CRC popularity was based more on what I see for the quality of products available and what is getting the most attention here in the threads.

Bending Corners supposedly has a couple guys that will bring their rides if they know there is others showing with 1/10 scale 2wd. OCRC was thinking indoor carpet for a while and some people talked about bringing out the F1's, but not much about 235mm. Hopefully Danny S.'s West Coast RC Raceway works out as he was considering an on road course.

I get the feeling there is not much attendance for 1/10 2wd classes in So Cal... lame.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:51 PM   #832
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Thanks, yea I tried Bending corners last year and had potential but no one would show up. The AE guys never got around to getting a pan car class going either. So I gave up and turned my 200mm car into a 235mm and made Crystal Park Raceway my home so I could run mod class. There is one other guy showing up with an old Trinity Switchblade and we now at least get put into the touring mod class oncea month at Crystal Park. Anyways if you are ever in our area the 3rd Saturday of the month Crystal Park is running electric except this month due to a big nitro race. If no rain tomorrow morning will head over to Bending Corners for some practice and check out some of the mini rc cars that I am interested in.


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Thanx for the feedback! Solid info and I really appreciate it.

@espresso - my craptacular guess about CRC popularity was based more on what I see for the quality of products available and what is getting the most attention here in the threads.

Bending Corners supposedly has a couple guys that will bring their rides if they know there is others showing with 1/10 scale 2wd. OCRC was thinking indoor carpet for a while and some people talked about bringing out the F1's, but not much about 235mm. Hopefully Danny S.'s West Coast RC Raceway works out as he was considering an on road course.

I get the feeling there is not much attendance for 1/10 2wd classes in So Cal... lame.
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:56 AM   #833
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Quote:
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The front suspension is totally different from the rest. It will have more traction on asphalt due to long arms. Caster can be set with the two adjustable upper camber links. I have not heard good reports on this setup as the settings change in a crash. Speeds are low in World GT so this may not be a problem at all.
Frankly, if you hit hard enough to change the settings, it's likely that something got bent. That means a crash hard enough to bend some steel or titanium turnbuckles (I would avoid using aluminium ones), or to damage some tough and relatively small nylon parts. I think the upper links would pop off the ballstuds before they'd bend, by the way. Unless you hit a pole and the pole goes exactly between the wheel and the chassis. But in that case the front end would be totalled on any car...With an Associated-style front suspension the upper arm would likely be broken, meaning a DNF. I prefer to have an out-of-whack front end due to a crash than a DNF.

The big issue with this front end is getting it set up right. As turning one turnbuckle will change both caster and camber, you need to try a lot before your settings are right. However, in this day of computers and cheapo CAD software, you could just make a CAD drawing of the front end, and have the CAD program calculate the length of the upper links needed for each caster/camber combination.
Digital calipers will come in handy for adjusting the links so the right and left sides are approximately the same.

One thing I don't get with the MLP car is that the front and rear upper links of each side appear to attach to a pair of ballstuds that are in a line parallel with the chassis centerline. That means no reactive caster, unlike when the rear ball stud is placed further from the centerline than the front ballstud.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:31 AM   #834
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Thomas-Thanks for the post. In my experience the way a 4-40 camber link changes settings in a crash is that it telescopes. It will jump a thread and become shorter. The thread size is not quite big enough in my opinion. This happens on the TC as well. The upper associated arm will seldom break. The lower arm breaks first releasing the crash force. The upper turnbucle will then just turn without breaking the upper arm. I agree that a poorly set front end will finish the race; a broken one will not. There is nothing quite as stout as the associated front end though.
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Old 05-02-2009, 09:42 AM   #835
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When I asked Marty for a better shot of the front end on the Pro 10 (235mm, not the WGT above) he said it was really similar to the prototype on the F1 pictured here:



Obviously the steering linkage would be different.

I think MLP is afraid of people ripping off the designs, hence the lack of good pics? Again, thanks for the info guys!
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Old 05-02-2009, 10:35 AM   #836
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What you have there is a fully independent twin A-arm suspension that has been detuned with rigid links instead of coilover shocks. I can just see a hint of sliding kingpin type of spring below the left side knuckle. How easy it would be to put coilover shocks on that car.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:28 PM   #837
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Novak Ballistic Series 3.5

I purchased this motor for a second wide pan car. Here is what's new a different. The motor sensor lead plugs into the back of the motor. I like this a lot as I have had to replace two sensor harnesses on Novak motors over the last two years. It was not a trivial task. Now you just unplug it and can replace it with a proper length harness or a more supple harness for pan cars.

The rear cover is now a part of a 1/2 inch tall Aluminum endbell. The rear bearing is now seated in Aluminum where previously it was seated in plastic. This plastic deforming under heat had caused some people grief myself not included.

The sensors themselves are now easily replaced for those that do not use a tube to insert the arm and crush them.

The rear of the motor is a little more compact now, it might fit some applications better. I remember having trouble in the early JRXS with clearance.

The black color believe it or not will radiate heat better than the silver color. So the cosmetics help us in this case. It is a very nice looking motor in the hand. (note black absords heat better as well but the motor is heated internally and cooled on its surface.)

The motor has a nice timing gauge built in and the timing is easily adjustable for those that care to. I do not. That speed control has complete control of timing.

Expect a dyno report on the home made dyno thread in a day or so.

The second pic shows the rotor and its nickel plated magnet. That is not the bearing. The bearing is behind the little circuit board at the very end of the motor. Very nicely done. Much improved serviceability. The bearing cap is removed separately from the circuit board with three screws on the back of the motor.
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CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-novak-ballistic-3.5-motor-003.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-novak-ballistic-3.5-motor.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-07-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:22 PM   #838
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Battle of the Big Dogs

The results are in. I used the Sentry dyno to compare the just released Novak Ballistic 3.5 with the recently released LRP X12 3.5. I used the SMC 6000 mA-h 28c.

Manners of the LRP motor on the dyno were improved. There was no stuttering with this better battery. It may be able to deliver more early amps causing smooth motion. The Novak motors were always completely smooth. I have my voltage lead working this time. I charged my pack to 8.25 V. The resting voltage just before a run was 8.214 V. My voltage reading agrees with Matt's Sentry to the .001 place.

I ran several test. First an early Novak Velocity 3.5 motor that I had hooked up but had not tested previously on this battery. Followed by the Novak Ballistic series 3.5 Followed by the LRP X12 3.5 all run with the GTB which was controlled by the servo tester control.

The Results
Clearly the LRP X12 has more power than the Ballistic Series Novak 3.5 R. 699 W for the Novak, 760 W for the LRP. See the first graph.

If you look at the efficiency line farthest to the bottom, the LRP in red is slightly more efficient near 40,000 RPM. It may be giving you more power without a gain in heat and ampdraw. It does make this power at a higher RPM and I found on the track it needs to be geared quite low. 10.6 overall in a TC.

I crown the LRP X12 the king over this pair.

The new Results
And then I plotted up the Novak Velocity (early) 3.5. 800W. So I have a new king. See the second graph. The word early needs some explanation. I have owned 3 Novak velocity series 3.5. The first had huge power. You could hear strong electrical induction noise on the straight as the pan car revved up to Nitro speeds. I eventually after long use burned this one up. I bought a second. Not so strong. The noise was more subdued. The power was just off a little. I suspected Novak had made a running change to reduce amp draw and reduce the strain on the GTB. I wrote about this in my Pantoura Thread. I noted the new motor would do better on a slippery track. Well soon after, Novak came out with their light blue series of velocity motors. Just detuned with smaller wire I would guess. I sent my burned up 3.5 in for rebuild and it came back re manufactured and was identical to the original. I was so pleased. And here is that re manufactured motor kicking serious ass a year or two later. I don't know if you can buy this early version any more.

This Early version Novak 3.5 motor motor is the King of all my test so far. In the pan car it is just superior. In the TC it may overheat and lack early exit punch.
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:11 PM   #839
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Hi there John,

I'm a big fan of your toppics en read them with great interest. I have 1 question though on wich I couldn't find the answer to.
I run a 10x on a big track in Holland (MACH Heemstede) with a X12 4.5 and I can't get the diff to work properly. I use a slapmaster thrust but the diff keeps slipping. When I tighten it, it looses proper diff-action.
I hope you can give me some tips to straighten this out.

Thanx in advance.

Niels
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Old 05-10-2009, 05:19 PM   #840
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I don't particularly like the slapmaster thrust bearing. I built one diff up and it was rough in comparison to one built without it but with carbide balls.

There is a know problem with some CRC rear axles. They require an additional narrow spacer between the outer bearing and the thrust cone spacer. Otherwise there is not enough distance to properly tighten the diff nut. Try adding a spacer there.
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