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Old 03-18-2009, 02:53 PM   #706
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Nerf Wing Project Complete, Peugeot 905B HD edition

The Nerf wings allowed me to lower my electronics. This made my nice air intake vent for the speed control superfluous. I put the white body with vent on my other more customized Pan car that still has high mounted electronics and painted a new body for this chassis. It came out nice.

I used some silicone grease on my body mount screws. This did not wash off completely in the sink and created some silicon "fisheyes" while painting. Avoid Silicone before the paint is applied. On a full size car the prepaint prep is made to remove silicone and oil.

Expresso-nice track

john
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-nerf-wing-project-complete-003.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-nerf-wing-project-complete-004.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-nerf-wings-complete-resized.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-nerf-wings-electronics-install-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-18-2009 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:35 PM   #707
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Looks great John! It looks like the wings are going to distribute weight better.

BTW, I figured out what was wrong with my car. I reversed the springs from my initial idea. I meant to use the green springs (X-firm) up front and the red springs (firm) to the rear. After I made the fix, the car behaves MUCH better, even with the Sophia body. The Corvette body severely outperforms the Sophia GT body, however.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:06 PM   #708
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John, I really thank you for the panhard bar idea!!

I was able to do the maiden- run on my Q10 today.
Somewhat the first time the track was run on this year, the asphalt still has a greenish ting from the wintertime.
I started out running my mod Touring and the track was slippery, I drove a one way bearing in front (Car was put on the track as it was taken off last automn) and grip was very low, I wasnt really comfortable driving the touring cause it was very unstable.

Then I took out my Q10, the homemade Pro10 I finished some months ago.
For some reason the mechanical traction I noticed on the driveway back home was present here as well!!!
The first battery the car was good, but had a tendency to spin out while holding throttle on a long 180 turn (bump right where the 1/8ths start to accellerate again).
Made the rear suspension a tad softer, problem solved, the rear is really planted and the car turns with extreme precision... Without having done any adjustments other than 1 spring change in the rear!!!
Grip was way higher than with my touring and the car really felt good, extremely stable and fast.
I wonder what it'll do when the grip comes back up.

Btw, I'm driving on a rather small, technical track which has gotten some severe bumps during the years ( http://www.houthalensracingteam.be/i...d=31&Itemid=72 )
. Last year the track was undrivable with my Corally C10 or my L2. Today I was running GRP pink rears that have been sitting on the car in open air for about a year (cut about 1mm away to get somewhat fresh rubber again) and new, out of the box, GRP purple fronts.
Body was a Peugeot 905 HD.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:33 PM   #709
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Harry-Thanks. I am glad you have those springs fiqured out. Very important. This pics shows what I plan to start out with in World GT. The wing is far back, the nose tall. Both should increase effective downforce on their end of the car. We are running what I call the Petit Lemans edition, World GT. We plan to upgrade power to 2sLiPo/ 10.5 to deal with a long 240 ft. 1/8 th scale straight. I have about 9 guys on board to try this World GT petit Lemans edition now. Only 6 touring cars for open mod. We await only new asphalt.


Quante-well if your traction is this good now the car will be BALLISTIC when traction comes up. That is my experience. I hope we can start a trend. Should be a couple other 3-links on board soon.

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Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-hpi-nissan-r43-gtr-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-19-2009 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:33 PM   #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
Harry-Thanks. I am glad you have those springs fiqured out. Very important. This pics shows what I plan to start out with in World GT. The wing is far back, the nose tall. Both should increase effective downforce on their end of the car. We are running what I call the Petit Lemans edition, World GT. We plan to upgrade power to 2sLiPo/ 10.5 to deal with a long 240 ft. 1/8 th scale straight. I have about 9 guys on board to try this World GT petit Lemans edition now. Only 6 touring cars for open mod. We await only new asphalt.


Quate-well if your traction is this good now the car will be BALLISTIC when traction comes up. That is my experience. I hope we can start a trend. Should be a couple other 3-links on board soon.

john
Sounds awesome John! Amazing what LiPo can do to a class! Our track now has FIVE people joining the World GT class. SO to all the nay-sayers that said that this class was going to die, try to introduce LiPo to your track rules and see what happens. However, one question I have about your 2s/10.5 setup; what size pinion and spur are you using? I can figure out the rollout from there.

One more thing John, take a look at the ROAR addendum to the rules. All bodies for the World GT class have to be realistic to scale. I guess this is now an end to doorstop wedge bodies.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:41 PM   #711
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Harry-I am starting with a 23 pinion 72 spur for 2sLiPo 10.5. I don't have much track time as the track is torn up right now for construction. The gear feels good on the driveway. I would think the greatest safegaurd to realism is a generous height requirement for the roof. The pdf rules list 105 mm. My Nissan GTR roof is at 125 mm.

OK. I have looked at the ROAR World GT rules. Nice to get the sanctioning body involved at some point. Next to the 104 mm height is the word MAximum. Is that what they mean, all cars have to be under 104 mm to the top of the roof? I see that the addendum fixed this typo in the rules. The word should be minimum.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:57 PM   #712
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Quote:
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Harry-I am starting with a 23 pinion 72 spur for 2sLiPo 10.5. I don't have much track time as the track is torn up right now for construction. The gear feels good on the driveway. I would think the greatest safegaurd to realism is a generous height requirement for the roof. The pdf rules list 105 mm. My Nissan GTR roof is at 125 mm.

OK. I have looked at the ROAR World GT rules. Nice to get the sanctioning body involved at some point. Next to the 104 mm height is the word MINIMUM. Is that what they mean, all cars have to be under 104 mm to the top of the roof?
John
Hey John, thanks for the spur and pinion numbers. That is pretty much what I am running, but more of a 27 pinion.

I think the rules are opposite. Over 104mm to the top of the roof. I think... I will have to ask the local roar expert at my track.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:03 PM   #713
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Well I finally ran my first race. Though no pan cars showed up, I was put in with mod touring. I believe it was 6 or 7 of us and was in third place when my axle snapped after hitting a bump. It snapped around the area I had super glued it a week or two ago. Yes I procrastinated this week and almost bought a second one to have it stock, bummer I didn't as my first race ended early It was fun and will be having electric races at Crystal Park Raceway once a month 3rd Saturday of the month. See CP thread below.

I'll continue to rally pro10 or world gt pan cars so if anyone on this thread is in the Los Angeles area personal message me and will get the pan class going.


http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-f...k-raceway.html
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #714
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Bad Luck!. I bet the first breakage could have been prevented with a Nerf Wing. I am CADing those up right now. Production will depend on demand. Good luck next time.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #715
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Though I watch all your post been a bit busy and just now had time to really look at the nerf wing. Looks good and love how the electronics sit lower and back. Keep us posted with cost.
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:22 PM   #716
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John, I am looking at your nerf wing and wondering if this will work with the stock setup and no modifications as you have done to your kit? Just trying to see how the side links would fit with the nerf wing?
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:36 PM   #717
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Nerf Wing
A slightly different arrangement would be needed for the stock kit. The nerf wing would catch the forward link hole that is not used and then replace the small rear battery side plate. That would give it 3 holes for strength. It might include the forwardmost hole that the 3-link attaches to. This hole could remain used or unused. I'll post a pic in a month or so.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:19 PM   #718
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LiPo Battery Tests
TrackPower Part # TP49002S Gold 4900 mA-h LiPo

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRWF7&P=ML

You may have seen this pack in a few of my recent pictures. Here are the results of the second cycle.

7.19 V average, 5450 mA-h, OUTSTANDING CAPACITY, Pack raised from 70F to 97F when discharged this is good as well by being low.

I retested the Orion 3800 mA-h Graphite edition after maybe 15 cycles
7.14 V average, 3427 mA-h, Capacity still sucks compared to the 3800 nominal rating, but it has not dropped much with use.

The FMA Direct,Cell Pro Revolution cells, whichhave over 100 high drain cycles at this time. I have changed to the outer shrink wrap once.
7.12 V average, 4588 mA-h. The nominal rating was 5000 mA-h. This is an 8% loss. The voltage is still competitive with my two newer packs above. This may be a different pack than tested just below at 60 cycles. I had three. One died. Two remain in good condition. I have a suspicion that charging these at 1C improved greatly the performance of the cells when cycled many time.

Here are some previous tests.

Orion 3800 mA-h Graphite Edition (brand new, average of 2 equivalent cycles)
3455 mA-h with 7.05V average at a 20A discharge.

I was also able to test a 5000 FMA DirectCell Pro Revolution which I have been torturing in the 3.5 powered touring car for over 60 cycles now.
4527 mA-h at 7.17 V average over a 20 A discharge. This is about a 9 % loss in runtime and only a 2% loss in voltage down from 7.35 V. These cells are just giving super performance over a huge number of cycles when charged at 1C. They still feel great in the TC. Here are some results from all the cells I have owned.

I had an opportunity to test my two new LiPo's from FMA direct. I also looked at some photographs and pack construction details which lead us to believe the original source is Saehan Enertech. Data on cycle life and performance of this cell is reported to me to be good. These packs are slightly long for some cars.

FMA DirectCell Pro Revolution 7.35 V at a 20 A discharge. Pack temp was reasonable at 110 F rising from 70F. Capacity was 4977 mA-h. I am extremely pleased. Track performance mirrored these good numbers. This is the best average voltage I have measure for a LiPo. Certainly a larger capacity battery tends to measure better, but these are not that much bigger than max amps which were about 4200 mA-h when new. Here are some numbers on some other packs I have tested for comparison. Now if you run softsided packs and can squeeze in this very long 150 mm long pack then I would recommend this pack so far. It does have a hard plastic and fiberglass thin protective plate on the top and the bottom to give a little protection to the edges.

Now I want to tell you that I have tested a NiMH pack that had this same average voltage with powerful mod motors vs a LiPo ballasted to the same weight that only had 7.25 V average. The LiPo had a lot more punch. It just delivers the big amps better. This cellpro pack has the most punch that I have ever seen in the touring car.

AmpMax Pack A 746 seconds at 20 Amps, 4144 mA-h, 7.16 V average
AmpMax Pack B 735 seconds at 20 Amps, 4083 mA-h, 7.19 V average

Orion 3200 mA-h 2S1p Avionics LiPo when new
20A discharge, 574 seconds, 3194 mA-h, 6.87 V average
The guts of this pack are identical to the graphite edition 3200 mA-h pack.

Apogee Magnum 3800 Lithium Manganese LiPo
Pack C 20 Amp discharge, 6.94 V average , 3744 mA-h tested when new. This was my most recently purchased pack.
Pack A and B tested better when new but deteriorated to about this voltage fairly rapidly with only a few months of age and use. The capacity deteriorated to about 3100 mA-h at present after a few months of hard use.

Scorpion Lithium Cobalt Dioxide Pack 3200 mA-h
20 A discharge, 612s, 3400 mA-h, 7.19 V
This pack maintained voltage and capacity extremely well with use and time.
An improvement to the very long leads on the original pack improved this voltage to 7.25 V
Pic shows the TrackPower gold brick pack in my CRC wide pan.


Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-nerf-wings-electronics-install-resized.jpg  
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #719
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CRC World GT car, 200mm stock chassis

I had a good driveway session with this car. I made some changes to the setup. I went with BSR purple front tires. This helped the overly grippy slow speed steering quite a bit by toning it down. This keeps the rear end in control. I then tinkered with dual rate until I had a car that would drift smoothly out on all four wheels when throttled through the corner. Some problems crept up.

The graphite rear wing is truly a stout piece. Its connection to the car is less so as the body has plastic pylons. The wing ripped the top off both the plastic pylons. Two solutions come to mind. One use BRP plastic screws so the screw will pull out of the nut. Or two, do a better job of mounting the wing by using the HPI wing mount set. The tall and medium mounts will come with four screws and a reinforcing plate for the body and will use 4 screws into the wing for the tall mount and two into the wing for the medium mount which I used to stay legal. This has proved to be very crash proof even on the oval.

Below is the pic of the below chassis battery loading of the CRC Gen X 10 chassis. If you leave just 1.5 inches or so of extra lead you can plug the battery in below the chassis. If you have had a good run with no breakage, and have used GRP screw on type of body posts. You can leave the body on and reload the battery all from the bottom. This will be good for casual practice. For racing you really need to llook things over with the body off. After some experience with these body mounts off the track I have started using the gold steel Associated #4 washers under the top button head screws to prevent the screws from cutting the body plastic with their knife edge in places where the body is not flat. I use them on all the screws now.

Novak Havok 10.5
This seemed to work fine except for the factory default, no brakes, reverse after brake,then neutral. I like about 50% brakes at least outdoors. I had enough punch in spite of pretty good grip. I could send the car into a wild spin with too much throtle. Rolling on the throttle will be the key to good acceleration.

I have a new "Ballistic" Novak 3.5 coming for one of my wide pan cars. Specs are the same as the old 3.5 purple sleeve model. It has the advantage of side exit motor sensor lead and plug in motor sensor leads. No "good" pics yet on the Novak site yet.

john
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-bottom-battery-loading-001.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-25-2009 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:11 AM   #720
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Hello from France,

I need some advice.
I will run my GenX 10 with Speed Passion 5.5R and 4000/25C Lipo.
My track is long permanent track with good grip.

The tyres will be GRP because of the cost.

Could you tell me which pinion (48dp) I have to purchase?
Which shore in tyres?

Thx

Au revoir
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