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Old 08-31-2008, 06:44 PM   #256
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Rick, I will pm you about that car. I have L4 and need a better handling car.
thanks,
Marvet
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Old 08-31-2008, 10:25 PM   #257
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Race Report-Results and the story of the main are here. I thought I would continue to discuss tires. By accident, it seems, I ordered a set of BSR XXpurple fronts. I intended to get a BSR purple which may be softer than a GRP purple that I used last week. The XXpurple is a really hard tire. Today was a good day to test it. I had sugared the track on Friday. The nitro guys sugared it again on Saturday. Traction was medium-high as a result on Sunday with only a hot water treatment to revive the sugar. Quite a few rubber marbles were collecting on the underside of the body. This would be a good test for Double Purples. I put them on in practice and had insufficient steering traction. I tried a set of purples and strangely enough steering traction was insufficient. It was fine last week with medium traction. Now this is probably because with higher traction than before, the rears were just hooking up better. Next I tried one XXpink and one purple. I raced this in the first heat. I put on two XXpinks in the second heat and went faster. Anyway the moral of this story is you might get a slightly different general trend and best tire depending on the overall traction on the track if you stick with the same rear tire. I am probably just now starting to get a good feel as to what tires to buy and try. I like the XXPink/purple rear a lot and got, TQ, fast lap, and track record number of laps in the main with it. I like the XXpink and purple front tires. I think I am weaned off the pink fronts. Note this is all on flat asphalt.

I am ready for that Battle axe again. Maybe the supply has improved.

In a month or so we will be running on flat concrete treated with sugar as work proceeds on the on-road track. That will be interesting.

John

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Old 09-02-2008, 11:02 PM   #258
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I am slowly piecing together results from the 13.5 World GT class Debut at the international indoor champs in Las Vegas. Here is a video of the main from RC50. Pretty exiting race. Close till the very end. Walt Henderson, team driver for Associated, TQ'd and led the main almost till the end when he bumped a pipe. Some close racing. I believe CRC finished first, Associated second. CRC 4th

"In the new World GT class featuring the new spec 200mm 1/10th pan cars, CRC’s new Gen-X 10 took the win in the hands of Mark Smyka. This new pan-car class used 200 mm sports car bodies with brushless motors and the revolutionary Gen-X 10 finished 1st and 4th, taking the first ever win in this new class."

http://www.rc50.com/modules.php?name...orderby=titleD

John

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Old 09-02-2008, 11:40 PM   #259
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Wish I could view it, seems that it is using Real Networks for video. I dont use that player and hate to install it just to view it once.


Anyways on a side note, my driving skills have imporoved and seems I am not breaking parts much these days. Screws are staying put following your tips, what to do next to my Gen X 10? Upgrade to TI pivot ball/tie rods?

I do have to say that I have been through two front bumpers and at $25 a pop, not happy about that. Other than the front bumpers I have been having a blast with this kit. I am still practicing at Crystal Park and the only electric at this track, noticing some whispering going on from some of the nitro guys since I been showing up frequently to the track. Since this is a big track, the Corvette and Saleen are not working for me at this track. The Protoform Lola seems to give me best results on the long straigth at the track and handles the corners very well. It has crossed my mind that this would be a great track for a pro10 class, just a thought. On a smaller track at Bending Corners the Corvette handled well but have only practiced twice at this track.

Thanks again John for all your write ups, had it not been for you I don't know if I would still be playing with my car. With no other electrics at the track and no one to ask, all my knowledge has come from your threads and trial and error at the track. Car seems to be finally well tuned and have to give you credit for all your help.

Looking forward to the World GT results

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Old 09-03-2008, 05:11 AM   #260
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John, I download the file, but I cannot seem to get it to run? what is the trick?
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:14 AM   #261
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The video does require Real Player to be installed.

http://www.real.com/

I have several of these video programs installed. They don't seem to cause problems with my machine or with each other. You do have to get them from the proper source and not our PM's. Sorry you guys had trouble with the video. Expresso. Keep at it. you will only get better smoother and faster. Get the wide kit and the Peugeot 905 B wide body for a substantial improvement on your big track.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:48 AM   #262
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Real Player is horrid. If there's any way you could get it in the second-worst format (Quicktime) that would be great.

RealPlayer tends to have a TON of stuff in the background, tries to hijaak other players, etc. I run multiple labs, classrooms, and lecterns (around 200 computers total) and try VERY hard to get faculty OFF RealPlayer.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:56 AM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
Real Player is horrid. If there's any way you could get it in the second-worst format (Quicktime) that would be great.

RealPlayer tends to have a TON of stuff in the background, tries to hijaak other players, etc. I run multiple labs, classrooms, and lecterns (around 200 computers total) and try VERY hard to get faculty OFF RealPlayer.
Download "real alternative"
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:01 PM   #264
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expresso1967- I have commented on front bumpers before. I thought I might again. Those graphite front bumpers are indeed expensive. They need an auxilliary foam bumper to extend and protect them. This foam bumper must be well attached or it won't provide the needed protection. Here is an example with a Blue Foam BSR bumper from Stormer. On the graphite bumper use two steel screws on the sides to attach it to the frame to avoid damage from the bumper being pushed back into the suspension parts. The RC10L3O bumper is also a good fit. That third short body post and the pins holding the foam down are essential.
On my cars I eliminate the front graphite bumper and install an RPM for Traxxas bumper. This requires drilling and countersinking holes in some frames. I flatten it with a heat gun. It is quite bulletproof. I normally run some foam as well to extend it to the side a bit to protect the suspension arms better.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEV91&P=7
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Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-bsr-front-foam-bumper-002-resized.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-ackerman-measuring-006-resized.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-3-link-top-view.jpg  

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Old 09-05-2008, 10:52 PM   #265
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I have been regularly truing my tires down for the oval now. I start them at 2.260 and usually try them out in practice once before the race. This means there is a little more stability in tire size and the wheel wells need not be large enough to fit the new large tire. Undoubtedly this will help a little. I have also taken special pains with this body to get the foam cut line square with the ground by removing a little body rake. I will see how this goes. I have left generous portions of body behind the wheelwell. I forgot to mask these off with a wedge shaped clear section that might improve appearance at the back a little. Anyway here is a pic. I should be just a tad faster and lighter than my previous body which was reinforced underneath. An extra stiffener is suggested on the right rear quarter panel aft of the tire. I am going to watch this area during a run and see if it is deflecting. Yes my paint scheme is similar, but this helps both the new guys and myself when lapping traffic. I still prefer this J Concepts 110 Illusion 7.25 inch wide Touring Car Wing on HPI 85193 tall wing mounts over the more typical Oval wings with big side dams. It is much lighter, keeps the cars center of gravity low and has plenty of downforce on flat asphalt. My tests show its a bit faster as well.
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Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-protoform-toyota-hd-summit-007-resized.jpg  

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Old 09-06-2008, 12:07 AM   #266
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I realized my mistake the other day and bumper was only being held by the body post and forgot to put the two other aluminum parts that help support the foam bumper. CRC just released a bumper for the Gen X 10.

http://teamcrc.com/crc/


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
expresso1967- I have commented on front bumpers before. I thought I might again. Those graphite front bumpers are indeed expensive. They need an auxilliary foam bumper to extend and protect them. This foam bumper must be well attached or it won't provide the needed protection. Here is an example with a Blue Foam BSR bumper from Stormer. On the graphite bumper use two steel screws on the sides to attach it to the frame to avoid damage from the bumper being pushed back into the suspension parts. The RC10L3O bumper is also a good fit. That third short body post and the pins are essential.
On my cars I eliminate the front graphite bumper and install an RPM for Traxxas bumper. This requires drilling and countersinking holes in some frames. I flatten it with a heat gun. It is quite bulletproof. I normally run some foam as well to extend it to the side a bit to protect the suspension arms better.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEV91&P=7
john
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:20 AM   #267
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Thanks for the nice pic. I saw it in your other post. I'll repeat some advice. Imagine that aluminum screw and center screw on the bumper shearing in half in a crash. This happened to me on the Battle axe. The bumper is driven straight back on that side. It tries to slice under the suspension plate on that side. Hugely expensive. Messes up the bumper and the suspension plate. Put two steel screws one on each end of the bumper. The foam needs to have pins to hold it down. Other wise it just rides up in a crash and you still break your graphite bumper. Drill the body post and put two more body pins down low to hold the bumper down.
Now if you would describe those aluminum pieces. Maybe they hold the center in place. Holding the center in place is essential to protect the graphite. A center hit is usually what does them in.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:35 PM   #268
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Race Report

I had a good chance to test tires again.

Airtronics interval timer- One item on my M8 (&M11) transmitter that is especially helpful in practice is the interval timer. Using it is a bit tricky without the manual. You would swear the radio is broken. Select interval timer. Hit the star button to put it in change time mode. Use the up and down arrows to set the time. A good practice time for me is 4.60 seconds. Now hit the star key again and the radio says off. To use the timer hit one of the up and down arrow keys to turn the timer on, then hit the button on the side of the radio near the wheel. This will start the timer and it will give everyone an annoying beep every 4.60 seconds. You remember your position on the track at the beep. If you have gone farther than this at the next beep you are under your time.

The interval timer helped me select my first set of tires for the race. I had medium high traction by intent (10 lbs of sugar). When you have this your body collects rubber bits on the underside. See the photo. I have pretty even patches left and right which shows that I am working both tires hard. In practice I tried the following tires

xxpink on the front, BSR
xxpink/purple on the rear, BSR

the car felt good, just a little weak on steering traction.

XXPink on the front, BSR
purple rears, Jaco

The car drove well. It had better steering. I had good control. It was just .1 slower on the timer.

I started the race with
one pink on the right front, one XXpink on the left front
XXPink/Purple, BSR on the rear, HEAT 1 20 best lap average time 4.609s

The car drove well. It was fast. I did not have quite enough steering to the left. My usual manner to pass is to stay on the oponents line for quite a while and then move to the inside if he is drifting a little wide when I get very close. Well I could not move to the inside and crashed into them 3 times and made quite a ruckus. I apologized and fixed the car the next heat.

I went to pink fronts, BSR
I said previously I was weaned off pink fronts but I am not.
XXPink/Purple rears, BSR HEAT 2 20 lap average 4.532 Better


Now I tried a softer rear, just a what if, the car was fast and handling very well.
Pink Fronts, BSR
Pink Rears, BSR, HEAT 3 20 lap average 4.511

the car was a little faster, but I had some faster laps with the previous combination. I was in better control to pass with the previous combination.

For the main I went back to a slightly slower combination for better passing ability.
pink fronts
XXPink/purple rears Main 20 lap average 4.532 s

Note that the main was an exact replicate of heat two's tires and got exactly the same 20 lap average. Will wonders never cease. This does indicate that the data is at least a little reproducible.

I go through this tedium because tires are probably the major tuning factor on the asphalt oval once you get the car where you can drive it without corner exit mistakes. If you cannot, work on left rear wheel offset, left down tweak, and if available left rear steer. I had anther racer with a custom works T-plate car that dialed in some left rear steer (I don't know how yet). He liked its effect of reducing corner exit oversteer. He discovered this after a broken t-plate had put in left rear steer by itself and the car drove better on corner exit.

pic-I believe the Toyota THD instructions ask that you put a little stabilizer on that right rear quarter panel behind the wheel. This let me adjust the rear of the wheel arch just flush with the wheel. There was probably some microscopic improvement, like there is by adding screws instead of body clips for you body posts. The panel was free of power robbing flutter.

This car TQ'd had fast lap in the main, won the race and won the series. Time to retire it for a while. I am very pleased with the 3 link. Changes that I made to it, made it bulletproof. 7 races now without any failure. Some news on the horizon. I might be running 13.5 LiPo next race. We may be on concrete come October.
John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-underbody-rubber-pattern-002-resized.jpg  

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Old 09-08-2008, 10:25 PM   #269
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LiPo 13.5

Here is the class I am Recommending for Mikes-Hobby shop new oval. The track is being redone with a new reinforced concrete base, overlayed by machine layed asphalt. This is happening in conjuction with our winning the 2010 1/10 Nitro Sedan Worlds, formalities remain to be done. We should have a slightly longer oval runline centered on the drivers stand when done with beautifully smooth fine grain asphalt. I am going to suggest a faster class to run along side the 13.5/4 cell class. A way to get in to LiPo batteries and their long cycle life will be just to add the LiPo to the present car which is 13.5 four-cell. Here is a pic below. Note I have three 0.030 Lexan angles to protect the pack in its new outboard position. The battery I will recommend will be the following Orion 3800 mA-h LiPo in a hard case. It will probably be available for at least a couple years and will become available soon with leads. My decision is based on KoKam's safer chemistry and long cycle life. There are faster LiPos out there. This class is not really that fast on a high drivers stand with wide lanes so the fastest LiPo is not needed or wanted. Safer, more rugged, longer lasting is what is needed on our flat oval. It is indeed fast though especially when viewed from ground level.

https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?src=ns&pn=ORN14012

The Southwest series runs some LiPo oval classes, but because their speed builds on the high banking, they like to run 17.5 or 21.5 LiPo with a similar but lower capacity Orion graphite edition LiPo. Other wise speeds are too high.
I noticed at the Asphalt oval Nats that LiPo is taking over. I did not see a suitable class for us at Mikes. I did not care for 4 cell/mod because of the antique battery and the trouble that I have had with NiMh recently. Mostly NiMH packs come with highly deteriorated cells these days before the first use even. I have waited 3 months now for warrantee replacement of two packs from Trinity. The pipeline and quality are broken elsewhere as well.

The 3-link car lost an ounce while I have increased voltage to 7.4 V nominal and 5000mA-h of capacity. I will recommend we keep the four cell weight limit as the car is hooked up well this way. That’s at 41 ounces (6cell lets you go to 43 ounces). I don't mind adding a little lead if need be. It will go toward the back on this more powerful machine.

Now as a bonus that GenX 10 may run well with some powerful stuff when we get that smooth asphalt layout. Stay tuned. Months away though. Probably LiPo 13.5 would work great on the big road race layout. Perfect for a Gen X 10 with LiPo battery tray.

I spoke with Frank Calandra by e-mail, he has promised me a Battle Axe oval car near the end of October when the next run is made. GenX10 sales are keeping them busy. That is exiting news by itself.

I want to counter some bad press on this Battle Axe car in this thread. When I had Ricks Battle Axe, I was able to buy all the parts for the Battle Axe promptly. All were on the web site. I was able to use a downloaded copy of the GenX10 manual to check all the assembly. I had none of the problems that Rick did. There is some top notch unique engineering on this battle axe that is worth a try. Teething problems that Rick experienced are real and are common for a preproduction car. I have had several cars from big manufacturers with similar problems early on. Later this month or Early October a full production run of this Battle Axe will become available.

John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-lipo-13.5-resized.jpg  

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Old 09-10-2008, 05:11 PM   #270
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13.5 Brushless/LiPO
I tested the 13.5 LiPo today on the oval. My laps were about .2s faster. My wide pan, 3.5 or powered car is about .5 s faster. The 13.5 LiPo car was easy to control. Now the difference is, that there is considerable more excitement on the straight. You will have to roll on the throttle until mid straight instead of hammering it down near corner exit. You will be able to make a pass now on the straight from better throttle control instead of having to wait for the next corner. Now I will admit that not everyone will be faster with this class on the flat asphalt, so we will keep the 13.5/four cell class. Jeff, the shop manager, drove my car and enjoyed the extra power. He may rejoin us on the concrete.

I am truly exited about this faster class. We will see how it goes.

I was able to use the same gears, tires and overall setup as with the 4 cell car. I will have to add two ounces to meet the 6 cell specs as some guys may choose to run 6 cell NiMH. Those two extra cells weigh 5 ounces now, though, so the NiMH 6 cell car will end up at least a couple ounces overweight. It may have a slight advantage on the straight, but in my experience it will be a little slower in the corner than a 43 ounce car.

The fourcell GTB worked fine on LiPo 13.5 brushless. After a long 10 minute run the motor was 175 F with the same 3.07 inch/rev rollout. The GTB was at 137F. Things smelled a little hot, but I think it was the motor. Normally we don't need to run it a full 10 minutes.

Battle Axe coming, Orion LiPo 3800mA-h coming.
John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-roar-1-10-oval-rules001.jpg  
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