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Old 07-24-2008, 11:05 PM   #211
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The TC5 is easy to drive on our big 1/8 scale track. I usually qualify 3 or 4 th overall when I race with the Nitros including about eight 1/10 scale and eight 1/8 scale cars. Jeff has a powered sprayer rigged up with fine nozzles now to apply sugar. The wide pan car is faster than the TC5 when there is a good coat of sugar.

There is a GenX10 at Mikes-HobbyShop.com that I assembled. Might have to pay extra for assembly and paint. 281-577-8250. Talk to Jeff. That's the one with the Corvette body. That pic earlier in this thread has almost 200 views already.
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:13 PM   #212
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Wide Pan
I have been tinkering with the car a little. I had mounted a rebuilt LRP TC edition speed control (note the failure was user error). Unfortunately the speed control came back without that hugely powerful fan it comes with. I ordered and installed this 25 mm Novak unit. I am unable to find the original fan in stock or even listed as a separate item. The RPM of this fan is probably 1/10 of the original unit and blows a lot less air. The Peugeot body partially shrouded the fan. I made a slight move to the left and cut a ventilation hole and installed a duct. The duct is cut from a LRP brushless motor blister pack. I thought it came out nice. This will boost airflow when the motor is pulling high amps mid straight. This is not the first time we have done this but is the first time I added a duct. Here is a pic.

"you can't put too much weight on the back of a two wheel drive"
Carrol Smith
(Note that this only applies if you have enough power to spin the back tires.)

GenX10 toe and camber (question by PM)

Toe in 0
Camber generally about -2 degrees on both sides. If the car tends to wander on the straight change camber to 0 until you get used to driving straight. After this learning period adjust the camber so the front tires wear flat. You may need different camber on left and right. Swap front tires side to side every two heats.

The secret to driving straight is to start the throtle roll on when the car is pointed in the right direction. Some guys say this is like shooting an arrow. When you do this the car wanders very little. If you start with a wander (car is not pointed right) the wander generally gets worse and not better as you over correct with steering. This problem is peculiar to that sliding kingpin front suspension. I don't find it on dual front A-arm cars.
John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-fan-duct-003.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-26-2008 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:01 PM   #213
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GenX -10 Ride Height, Tire Truing. (question from a PM)
Outdoors, set your ride height in the front with the CRC pro strut front end spacers. These are inexpensive from CRC. Set the rear ride height with the oval spacers that support the rear axle. I like the IRS models. Shoot for about 6 mm. You may not need to true tires. I never did for my wide pan. For the highest level of competition true your tires about .15 inches shorter than they come to about 2.250 inch or even a little shorter. Run the same short tires in heat 3 and the main so they scrub in well. Use your taller tires (2.250) early and in practice to make them short. Hudy makes a fine tire truer. I like the Cobra brand as I have had several Cobra lathes. That truer by Cobra may be OK as well. I true tires for my oval car now to 2.250 but I do it on a big lathe. Pic below. I have a 1/4 inch router bit on the home mounted die grinder (Dewalt Zip tool). It trues the tires down to any size in one pass. The finish it leaves worked well and won races last weekend. That was the first time I trued all four tires down. I sand the corners by hand with a rough abrasive strip while the tire is spinning. That is a freshly trued 2.250 inch BSR pink in one pass with sanded edges. I am using an old axle for an arbor.

You may find on a loose track that the bigger tires grip better, both in forward traction and in the corners. On a smooth high bite track there is no substitute for a short tire.

Arbors-I find that pan truing arbors are poorly described and rarely in stock. I purchased a set of RC10 Cobra arbors from Tower. They were not even close as far as I could tell. I just returned these today.

If you like a particular brand of pan arbor and tire truer give us a post. We did mention one all aluminum model arbor earlier in the thread but we had no first hand report on its use.
John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-truing-tires-big-lathe-002.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-25-2008 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:39 AM   #214
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John
I think the fan from the LRP TC edition speedcontrol is the same as the one from the worlds cooling kit available for the other Sphere speedcontrols.
If you do have no part# I could look for this.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:47 AM   #215
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Default Truers & Arbors

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
GenX -10 Ride Height, Tire Truing. (question from a PM)
Arbors-I find that pan truing arbors are poorly described and rarely in stock. I purchased a set of RC10 Cobra arbors from Tower. They were not even close as far as I could tell. I just returned these today.

If you like a particular brand of pan arbor and tire truer give us a post. We did mention one all aluminum model arbor earlier in the thread but we had no first hand report on its use.
John
John,

I use Ingegy Auto Truer http://www.integy.com/cgi-bin/webc.c...=2334&p_catid= with their 12 scale arbor http://www.integy.com/cgi-bin/webc.c...=1783&p_catid=. I have no problem cutting my oval foams.

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Old 07-26-2008, 06:30 AM   #216
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v12-I think that I have purchased a worlds cooling kit for an older LRP. I don't recall that the fan was such a high volume as the one that comes on the TC edition. When I purchased the TC editions, I noticed I could now hear the fan with the car on the ground while standing. That is why I wonder if it has a new part number. I have the Worlds edition part#. I wonder if this Much More Racing Model blows equal air to the TC edition? It is out of stock at the moment

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUDN0&P=7

Rick thanks for the post. So the 1/12 pan Integy arbors are a good fit to the 1/10 wheels then. Is that what the little cone is for.
john

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Old 07-26-2008, 07:40 AM   #217
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Im not sure if you really need that high reving fan on the LRP speed control.
I have a TC spec. but this is in another car.
In the Pro10 car Im running a Sphere Competition 2007 currently what is basically the same as the TC spec. but without the fan and its getting just slightly warm not hot. This is running a 9T delta wind motor on 7.4V Lipo what makes the same power as a 4.5T starwound and its really far away from shutting down. So no need for the annoying noise of that fan.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:10 PM   #218
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V12-OK then. I will run that wimpy fan with duct for a while. It worked OK today at 98F air temp.

Track Test Wide Pan
I was very pleased with the BSR tires on the powerful wide pan. I got a little more forward traction and cornering traction than I used to with GRP. I ran pink rears and purple fronts. The track was untreated. If you have some trouble getting traction you might try this brand. Just a short test today.
John

Any more tire truing equipment that you are happy with?


KSG lightweight hub
I had posted earlier about a KSG lightweight hub. I reported that I had to ream it to 1/4 inch to allow its removal from the axle. It was still a snug fit. After a lot of use on the oval, I trued a set of rear tires for the first time. The left rear had some axial runout, wobble, when installed on the car. I was confidant in the tire and wheel as it was just trued on a true machine. I traced the problem to the hub. I installed the original full weight hub and the problem dissappeared. Anyway watch out for this; wobble will suck away speed. I think the reason for the wobble is the slots are excessively long on this hub to make it clamp well. I also have a fairly short axle for weight savings. It was true originally but became out of true with repeated on and off cycles or crash damage.

John

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Old 07-26-2008, 06:50 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
Rick thanks for the post. So the 1/12 pan Integy arbors are a good fit to the 1/10 wheels then. Is that what the little cone is for. I note that they also list a 230mm arbor described as only "for 230 mm"

http://www.integy.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1782&p_catid=

It does not say pan car which is troubling.
john

Jaco 1/10 tires fit the integy arbor, the RC4Less rims do not fit, I got the multi arbor they sell for those tires. I have not tried a set of BSR's yet.
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:56 PM   #220
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Here is my report for the weekend.

I went out to Crystal Park Raceway in Compton this morning to take my gen x 10 for it's fourth visit to this track. New body (Proline lola) what a big difference from the Saleen and Corvette bodies. Track was treated with VHT and tires with Jack The Gripper, man what traction. Running Jaco pink's all around and this bad boy was gripping all around except when I would steer off the track. Again I was a little shaky at the start but once tires were warmed up and the driver (me) started to get comfortable with the track things started to roll smooth. Still a bit intimidated by them fast nitro cars and still pulled into the pits when necessary to make room for the veterans at this track. There was a good period when all the nitros went to their work benches giving me the track to myself and a bit more relaxed to get the hang of the turns and learn where to slow down and speed up.

All I can say is all the work put into my kit all week long gave me hours of the fun factor until I broke one of the body post right off the cf bumper and pretty much called it a day after 3 hours on the track. Not bad, as I have prevously only had no more than 40 or so minutes on the track and this was the longest run.

I did take some video 2:32 seconds, I am the one with the white lola body nothing spectacular but just thought I share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0NUf_ttLxM

P.S. Video has three different views of the track
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:51 AM   #221
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I'm not sure if this video was posted here before, but this gives you an idea of what 7.4V lipos and very fast brushless motors can do:
http://www.youtube.com/v/xVbHecGqVLw...e%3c/object%3e

It's a video of the first A-main of the RC Le-Mans race in Bad Breisig last month.
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:53 PM   #222
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Thanks for the reports and the videos

Race Report, Tire truing Arbor Report

ARBOR
I did some checking with the guys at the track. There are using a Hyperdrive Arbor (Lefthander-rc.com) that fits an 8 mm output shaft like on a Hudy, Integy or Ofna truer. It fits all the rear wheels. The GRP rear because of a thinner flange requires the knurled nut to be installed knurled side in or backwards from normal. It has a one piece body and threaded shaft which will make it run truer than if it had a separate threaded steel shaft. I was satisfied with the strength of the threaded shaft; it was big enough to take some abuse. It also does 1/12. This might be the one that is easiest for me to use on my big lathe.

Oval Race
100F
We had some dust and heat today. The 3-link was smoking hot again. It was clearly superior to the other cars in this slightly lower traction condition. So much so one racer asked for a motor teardown. That's a compliment I guess. I offered to sell the motor to him. We tore it down. Nothing was learned, no money exchanged hands. Maybe it's the tires and gear ratio that I used which are quite different from his. No questions about this, just about the motor. I used Magenta rears pink fronts geared 3.07 inch rollout.

Everyone had a bad case of corner exit over steer from the dust. I suggested a spacer to increase left rear wheel offset; more left down tweak. This improved the 3 cars that tried it. I had only a slight amount of this problem; I went up from a measured 1.6 degrees of left rear steer to probably around 2.0 degrees. This fixed the problem for me. We did rewet the sugar after 1 heat which improved things, but the dust was falling down.
Results are posted here. The 3-link is leading in the points now but by agreement at the beginning I will not collect cash or plaque.

I did have a lack of steering traction at the beginning. I increased right front caster by a thin .020 washer. Then I moved transponder and receiver forward. Both helped. The car was hooked up in the main. Since last week I had removed an ounce off the servo with a KO half height servo. This is why I moved weight forward. Car is at 41.5 ounces now with the race tires on it and about .2 inches of rubber. It is best to be able to meet the legal limit of 41 ounces at the end of a race.

Tire wear .050 inch off both rears in two race weekends.
.080 off of both fronts in two race weekends. (10-11 heats worth of runtime.

I should easily get four races off of these trued tires which started at 2.250 inch trued.

Some Common breakages and remedies
My car is fairly bullet proofed now. No breakages in the last three races. Plenty of impacts with spun out cars and when spinning myself today. Some troubles other cars had.

Aluminum body post loses the allen set screw. The post shortens as the body screw is installed. the body rubs the track. Put blue locktite on these set screws. Slow finish. Better yet chunk these heavy bumper breaking posts for club racing and put on some plastic ones.

Servo saver screw came out. Use blue locktite on this screw. DNF

Battery fell out. See if you can put a layer of tape at right angles to the main strip. This is a continual problem guys have. It always results in a DNF. If I were putting two strips of tape on parallel to each other instead of one on top the other put them side by side. You will have more stickum on the battery.

Side spring fell out. I don't know if this was a part failure of those tiny aluminum threaded shafts on the micro shocks or that tiny setscrew. These shocks should really be updated by the manufacturers. I hate them. Associated does have a new shock now. DNF

Receiver flopping around loose caused a serious glitching problem. Use parma clear servo tape or MIP servo tape. Very poor finish from repeated stops.

Very common but not today. Aluminum body posts breaks front graphite bumper. Use plastic body post, protect the graphite bumper with a foam bumper. DNF Body drags ground or parachutes up.

That oval wing falls off or loses one side mount in a crash. Very slow finish. Put on a touring car wing unless you are on a high speed layout. Use the time sheet to find out which is faster. On my car that touring car wing is faster and the car is more stable with the touring car wing.

This is a problem that I had with the battle axe. The graphite bumper shears 2 of 3 aluminum screws holding the bumper on the front and causes the bumper to swivel in a crash, tearing the back of the bumper and suspension mount up. Two tiny steel screws would have prevented this expensive damage.

I broke the head of a titanium screw in a critical suspension point. DNF. Use steel instead; our steel screws are twice as strong as the titanium screws we can buy in these small sizes. Our black alloy steel screws are twice as strong as our little stainless steel screws.

Pic shows the car at 41.5 ounces. The last bit of weight was removed from the servo (shorter KO 2413ICS) and the motor. (No trim ring. Three short aluminum rear screws.) Transponder and receiver were moved forward to compensate for weight lost in the front. Note I was able to keep one stiffening link. It works great now with the little graphite support plate going back from it. It keeps the front of the battery up so it does not rub the ground.
I also swapped 10 heavy duty body clips for the thin Associated style which I normally hate. Since there are three in the front on this car there is some redundance. You can loose one clip and still finish. Not much savings for 1 body clip but for 10, was significant. 1 clip above and one below the body to set its height. I put a tiny drop of superglue on the lower pins to make the hole smaller in the body post and to hold the pin in place. Otherwise the lower clip will pop out in a crash. They still pull out with pliers for height adjustment.
John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-top-view-41.5-ounces.jpg  

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Old 07-28-2008, 06:53 AM   #223
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Hi John,

You have a PM

Rick
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:20 PM   #224
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Mathijs- you did post that video clip previously. I had a question and commented on it but you may have missed them.

Note I added text and a photo to my previous post.

Brushless Motor Outer Bearing

We have a couple of weeks without a race now, so it was time to order some new goodies. Firstly I had noted before the last race that the pinion shaft of the motor had excessive radial play by feel. Shake the shaft side to side or up and down. I took off the endbell. I put a tapered pencil point into the bearing and spun it by hand. You can easlily feel grit or damage this way. The bearing had some grit. I cleaned it by removing that tiny inner snap ring. Afterwards it was smooth but of course I still had play. I figured it would last another race. I had been using it in the Novak 13.5 on the oval my entire time on the oval which is about 4 months or so. That is pretty good wear.
I went to replace it with a little press made from washers and a screw, but it was not up to the task. It would not fully seat the bearing. I made this tool after people on the Pantoura thread chided me for tapping the bearing in. Welll here is a nice tool from Hyperdrive to make this task a little easier. I ordered one to test. Apparently they think, as I do, that tapping the bearing in, while it is well suported, is not a big deal.
Note the bearing is retained by friction and you should also use a high temperature red loctite.

Hyperdrive Brushless Motor Bearing Installation Tool
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1378

I agree that a non contact sealed bearing will have a tiny bit less friction on the first day, but it is not very long before dirt entry makes it worse than a contact seal.

The motor bearing I like is a ceramic metal hybrid with yellow rubber seals. The seals will keep out that power robbing grit which wore the balls of my bearing down. The shaft proved to be unworn. Note the Novak bearing is shielded but not sealed.


Yellow Rubber Seal outer Brushless Motor Bearing 3/16 x 1/2, (.1875 x .500 inch)
http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=7345&n=SR3C-2YS_#5_NB2


I also ordered a Hyperdrive arbor to true 1/10 pan tires.

Hyperdrive Tire Truing Arbor for 1/10 and 1/12 pan
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1327

Now if you decide to order from Boca Here are the green rubber sealed wheel and axle bearings 4-packs that I like.

GWK168F-2GS Green seal 1/4 x 3/8, (.25 x .375 inch), rear axle flanged.

http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=2481&n=#GWK168F-2GS

#GWK2F-52GS, 1/8 x 5/16, (.125 x.3125 inch) The small steel front axle flanged.

http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=2475&n=#GWK2F-52GS

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-31-2008 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:25 AM   #225
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John
If the bearing really is the size you posted, it wont fit. Outer diameter of the bearing for all of the 1/4" diff axles is 3/8" not 1/2".
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