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Old 07-17-2008, 09:23 PM   #181
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Rick thanks for the post. Do you mean me. I am not getting old. Been old. Note to all he has added some red text to the quote to answer specific questions.


I think you will find the GenX10 as tough as any pan car. Pan cars as a rule are tougher than touring cars. I would base my decision on other factors. What you will not find in most pan cars is a bottom loaded battery with both NiMH and Lipo trays available which the Gen X 10 has. Also an advantage in my eyes is a center pivot side link car as it is durable and has more forward traction through the bumps. As these cars become more popular and are produced in greater number some of tha parts availability problems will go away. The cars as still very recently released.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:26 PM   #182
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Default How tough is the CRC?

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How tough is the CRC? I like the lipo mounting down the center

I want to build a pro 10 for next race season

the CRC Gen10 is well worth the money. I run the Battle Axe but we have a few guys running the Gen10 and love them. I have a problem getting parts for the Axe but that because it really hasn't be released yet accorting to CRC.

I have had thoughts of buying the Gen10 if that tells you anything.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:46 AM   #183
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Problem:
Also do not neglect the slow roll on of throttle to cure corner exit ills. You have to de-touring car yourself.
Not if you run on an indoor highbite track I find that I drive my pan car harder than my touring car. I've run the 10.5/Lipo combo and do not have an wheel hop, but there are also no bumps in the track. I wonder if a limiter in the shock might help, I have a 2mm limiter in my car at the moment, but I have to experiment with different sizes.
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:51 AM   #184
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Not if you run on an indoor highbite track I find that I drive my pan car harder than my touring car. I've run the 10.5/Lipo combo and do not have an wheel hop, but there are also no bumps in the track. I wonder if a limiter in the shock might help, I have a 2mm limiter in my car at the moment, but I have to experiment with different sizes.

Mike Larcher GenX10 runs "GOD LIKE" at our local track!!.......... Fun car that makes any driver look good......... Very popular car at the moment at our track!

Happy Racing!!!
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:08 AM   #185
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Mike Larcher GenX10 runs "GOD LIKE" at our local track!!.......... Fun car that makes any driver look good......... Very popular car at the moment at our track!

Happy Racing!!!
I didn't realize God hit so many boards.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:30 AM   #186
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don't neglect the context of that statement! Touring car can lead to a lot of bad habits, which come out driving pan car in either high or low bite tracks - just in different ways.

High bite - now you have to figure out how to carry speed through the corner. It sounds like you have this licked - but if you drive the car the same way you would drive a touring car, you'll shed a TON of speed through the corner which means that someone who carries their speed will beat you. "Schwoop"

Low bite - the different tires, lower weight and tire loadings, and rear wheel drive mean that a different driving style is highly beneficial. Roll on the throttle and overall throttle control is more important in pan car than in TC.

It was not uncommon to see a very good TC driver (at SoCal) come and play with us and land at the bottom of A or even B and get irritated.

It's also important to realize that John is trying (successfully) to abstract principles so that we can apply them in our own setting. You may be an exception (sounds like it) - but an exception does not prove a rule! That's why it's an exception! (I'm profound this morning, ain't I? ROFL)
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:32 PM   #187
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Thanks for the posts guys. I agree a different driving strategy is needed on carpet. I have some more details on the wheel hop now. The track is an asphalt parking lot still with parking lines. The track is prepared with cola. Traction compound is used. Since I have already mentioned some things with LiPo I will add that any weight that can be move back should be. On a wide car even putting some electronics on the second deck is fine. I particularly like a rear centered speed controler. And as a last resort add some ballast to the back end if using a lightweight LiPo.

I showed some pictures up above of my cars with two LiPos. This was done to add weight to the car to have it work through the dust without adding Dead weight (and also maybe to finish a 15 minute Nitro Main). On a treated track this extra weight should not be neccesary.
John

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Old 07-19-2008, 05:29 AM   #188
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I finally found some extra time to resume the development of my car, front is finished, no major changes.
At the rear I've drawn up the 3 link system John mentioned using a panhard bar (I also tried a watts linkage system but there wasnt enough space to accomodate everything).
My only concern are the rear shocks, the axle I have here is one of an asso L2, as you can see there's a lot of space for the motor but the axle carrier (other side as the motor mount) is exactly in the spot I would be able to place the right rear shock.
I need a new axle assembly anyway, but which one to get for a 235mm car to get rid of this problem?
Was there a conversion axle assy for a RC10L3T or something to 235mm??
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-pro10-q-assy_resized.jpg   CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-pro10-q-rear-assy_resized.jpg  
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:28 AM   #189
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Quante-First the front end is very nice. I would move the lower shock mount as far outboard as you have clearance to do so. This may require a slightly longer shock tower.

I will repost this here on the pod as a pod intermediate in size between wide and narrow will give you enough room for shock mounting in the front of the pod and will also give you good balance and lots of room on the left side to mount a shock.
"On the pod issue. I like a rear pod that does not require the use of an extended pinion. This is especially important on use of a 3.5 to save some wear and tear on the pinion side motor bearing. I also like the brushless motor to come out of the pod without dissassembling the pod. For this reason my pod is in between the wide pod and narrow pod. I don't like the wide pod much. Too much material on the pod. Position the right plate exactly where the wide pod would have it. Position the left plate where the small pod would have it. You will have good balance with brushless as well". You can use a lower pod plate from a wide car and a narrow car to use as templates to form the middle of the lower pod plate.

To make a 235 mm car then use a wide pan axle wide pan right hand hub. On the left side you will need a 1 1/4 inch IRS hub with a small spacer. This hub only come in silver. You can also use a shorter hub with spacers.

"Now this is what I ordered to convert my narrow pod Pantoura car to a wide car (no Powell chassis, custom front adaptors, kept the narrow rear pod)
IRS2101 Wide Pan graphite axle
IRS2121 Wide Pan (non offset pod) right hand hub
IRS220 1 1/4 inch double clamp hub"

You would use the same parts on an intermediate sized pod but would need at most one spacer on the left.

Pic:Note that long links are helpful on a solid axle. There is less rotation of the pod neccessary or less movement fore and aft, when the pod goes up into bump; this rotation or fore aft movement is wasted motion and, I believe, partly responsible for the standard pods poor performance through the bumps.
The shock mount has one screw and one threaded pin (Losi XXXS )so that only one screw is removed for gear maintenance. The ball of the shock uses the space created by the flattened part of the link to keep things low. The rear link pivot is move forward of the axle only for quick maintenance with a socket driver, again to change gears. Not much trouble really.

John
Attached Thumbnails
CRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks-3-link-lower-shock-mount-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-20-2008 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:39 AM   #190
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Thanks for the posts guys. I agree a different driving strategy is needed on carpet.
We actually are stull running on asphalt, but it has a lot of traction, I still expect things to change once they put the carpet back down. I'm actually worried there maybe too much rear traction when the groove comes up. Driving on untrued tires on the asphalt makes the car push very bad, cutting them down to 57mm or so makes the car handle so much better without and other changes.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:58 AM   #191
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We actually are stull running on asphalt, but it has a lot of traction, I still expect things to change once they put the carpet back down. I'm actually worried there maybe too much rear traction when the groove comes up. Driving on untrued tires on the asphalt makes the car push very bad, cutting them down to 57mm or so makes the car handle so much better without and other changes.
Mike,

I think we will have to go to a completely different tire once the carpet goes back down. I don't think the double pinks are going to be the answer. Some guys are going to have to experiment with tire including BSR's.

I cut a new set down to 56mm yesterday and they are handling pretty good on my Battle Axe. Still have to scrub them in more tho.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:15 PM   #192
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Mike,

I think we will have to go to a completely different tire once the carpet goes back down. I don't think the double pinks are going to be the answer. Some guys are going to have to experiment with tire including BSR's.

I cut a new set down to 56mm yesterday and they are handling pretty good on my Battle Axe. Still have to scrub them in more tho.
Yeah I figured grey or white rears and probably magenta fronts, I might play with narrowing the rears if necessary.
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:16 PM   #193
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Race Report
100F track temp for the main 140F

The 3-link was smoking hot today as was the weather. We profitted from brand new sealer and sand. Traction was high. We added a couple feet to the course on each leg by moving the end board.

Mechanical changes: I went from 4 degree caster to 2 degree caster on both sides to reduce scrub. I started the practice on GRP Magenta rears and BSR double pink fronts. I needed a tad more steering. In heat one I added one pink GRP on the left front. In heat two I added the second pink front. Now the car was just a bit loose. I raised the wing 1/4 inch. The car felt very good. Tq'd, won all three heats and the main. Got fast lap on our new 2 foot longer layout. Now if I was going to describe the main benefit over last weekend, it is more corner speed retained. The car was very silent in the corners. Little scrub or tire wear was evident. I was surprized the Magenta rears hooked up but they were fine with sufficient forward traction and enough cornering traction with just a bit more wing.

I was confident in the wing and 3.07 inch/rev gear from midweek practice so I did not change them. I did adjust the wing up a little.

A new but not so good battery helped my performance. Trinity still has two of my packs. They are puninshing me for returning them by holding on to them a long time. They did return one with less than 4000 mA-h with a test label that showed 5000 mA-h . I returned it a second time. I wish we could get them closer to the test label. Seems like within 15% is a reasonable demand.

John

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Old 07-21-2008, 03:04 PM   #194
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Ok short update on my test run at the track this past Sunday. I did get some parts in including the rear spring I lost on my first test run. I totally forgot there was a race on Sunday so I had to wait a couple of hours before it opend up for practice. Ok so I just on the track and all of a sudden four 1/8 nitors jump on the track, damm talk about intimidating. I ran the long staright away but as them came up from behind I move to the pits a few times Traction was ok since track was treated but somehow I lost power on my third run and could not figure out why I came to a snail pace. I brought her in and looked her over and figured out the nylon nut was loose so I was not getting any power from the diff. Once tighten I was back on the track and next thing I noticed was my steering loss which caused me to hit one of the wooden board cauing a crack on my front cf bumper (waiting on a foam one today). Second I noticed that I was missing a screw on the upper plate that holds it at the standoff causing a crack on my upper plate and calling it day after only 40 minutes Well that makes two test runs and have learned much from them. I do believe a need a faster motor especially with the 1/10 1/8 nitors at this track. The 17.5 is no longer fast enough for me and might have to go with a 4.5. I will most likely pick the 4.5 and 10.5 from novak in the next week and test these two motors. Until more of the extra parts arrive I probably will not have any practice this coming week as my two suppliers take 5 days for parts to arrive.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:20 PM   #195
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The 17.5 is no longer fast enough for me and might have to go with a 4.5. I will most likely pick the 4.5 and 10.5 from novak in the next week and test these two motors. Until more of the extra parts arrive I probably will not have any practice this coming week as my two suppliers take 5 days for parts to arrive.
I can tell you just from running a 4.5 in my TC your going to break things. a 4.5 and a 7.4 lipo will be hard to drive in a pancar.
I use a 13.5 or a 10.5 depending how I feel with the track. The 1st heat would be a bit slower but I'm driving right by the guys who have crashed. The last two heats and the mains I use my 10.5 and gear it a bit on the low side as I like to do a lot of my passing on the infield

So I guess what I'm telling you is to hold off buying a 4.5 as you will need the cash for the broken parts with the new 10.5. I should have asked also what body you are using as I found only the lola or that type of body had the down force needed to drive the car fast.

Most of our club have these type in med or high down force versions


Have fun as the cars are so fast and a lot of fun.

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