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Old 08-03-2008, 09:52 PM   #466
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Well.... got my shipment of the new blues. i must say i am pretty impressed. i am running rubber tire on carpet and have been running sorex, when i put the tires on the car i just ran it to see what it would do, and it gave the car a lot more steering, i went down 15 dual rate? i ran 4 rounds and 2 practice runs so maybe 25 min on the night, the middle bead was gone after 3 rounds but they tires didnt fall off. Soo overall good job i think they are better than the old ones.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:37 AM   #467
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I've seen a few of these tires at my local track... outdoor asphalt with good traction and the blue compound received mixed reviews. All of them felt that there was good traction with the tires but some complained about the cars pushing a bit when compared to RP30 and Sorex with thin inserts.. I'm hoping to get a set of blue and green compound and will give this an update on overall performance and how many runs before the performance drops off on lap times and drivability....
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:08 AM   #468
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When i first put them on it had more initial steering but by the 5th run they were pushy mid corner? Maybe they had build up of the capet on them? I used jack the gripper and didnt clean them off. i usually use motor spray?
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:31 AM   #469
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Jack, some observations from this last weekend's racing, and questions:
Our track is 128' x 72' outdoor sealed asphalt. We spray VHT fairly heavily. Lap times are around 13 seconds for 10.5. Temps this weekend were in the low to mid 80's, and sunny. Track temps between 100-120 deg.
I ran the Blues, and found the car to push consistantly. I tried several suspension changes, and the car still pushed. Ran Sorex 32's and 36's as a comparison tire. My lap times were off by around .3 a lap with the Jacos. To keep things even, I put one practice run on the Jaco's, one on each of the Sorex's, and then did one qualifier with each tire to get accurate real world racing condition lap times.
Jaco's: qualified 6th
Sorex 32's: qualified 4th
Sorex 36's: qualified 2nd (was on TQ, and dorked a corner)

Also that day, our local X-Ray driver tried them out as well. He found that they would push going into the turn, and then snap oversteer. He tried a couple setup changes, and then returned to the Sorex's.

One of our mid-pack guys tried them as well. He was slower, but didn't do any setup changes, and would like for me and our X-Ray guy to solve the tires, so he can run them as well.

So, my questions are:
1. Should we have tried the greens, even though the harder Sorex tires seemed to work better?
2. Are the Orange tires going to be available soon for testing as well?
3. Are the Jaco's designed for carpet, and we're not going to get them to work as well on asphalt?

Thanks,
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:53 AM   #470
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Randy,
Of course Jack should have THE answers to your questions, but I was going to try the greens on my car this weekend to feel them out since it didn't seem like anybody else has. From what I am hearing the blues seem to work better on carpet and the greens might be the way to go on the asphalt. I'm the the greatest set up guy (read rarely touch the car), but I know you guys will help me out.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:07 AM   #471
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Jon, one of the fast guys tried the Greens and said the Sorex were still faster for him. I don't know how much faster or how the testing was conducted. Wouldn't hurt to do your own testing. Im sure like everything else how you drive plays a part and what works best for one person might not be the same for the rest.

I personally thought Randy did great in the Blues and should use them every week. It was able to keep up with him for once
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:08 AM   #472
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Just got a couple sets of these that i will be testing for Vegas at Fast cats running on carpet.. I will keep everyone posted how they run and what i did to them for traction etc....

Give me some time to test...

Mike
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:13 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehobbyshop View Post
Jack, some observations from this last weekend's racing, and questions:
Our track is 128' x 72' outdoor sealed asphalt. We spray VHT fairly heavily. Lap times are around 13 seconds for 10.5. Temps this weekend were in the low to mid 80's, and sunny. Track temps between 100-120 deg.
I ran the Blues, and found the car to push consistantly. I tried several suspension changes, and the car still pushed. Ran Sorex 32's and 36's as a comparison tire. My lap times were off by around .3 a lap with the Jacos. To keep things even, I put one practice run on the Jaco's, one on each of the Sorex's, and then did one qualifier with each tire to get accurate real world racing condition lap times.
Jaco's: qualified 6th
Sorex 32's: qualified 4th
Sorex 36's: qualified 2nd (was on TQ, and dorked a corner)

Also that day, our local X-Ray driver tried them out as well. He found that they would push going into the turn, and then snap oversteer. He tried a couple setup changes, and then returned to the Sorex's.

One of our mid-pack guys tried them as well. He was slower, but didn't do any setup changes, and would like for me and our X-Ray guy to solve the tires, so he can run them as well.

So, my questions are:
1. Should we have tried the greens, even though the harder Sorex tires seemed to work better?
2. Are the Orange tires going to be available soon for testing as well?
3. Are the Jaco's designed for carpet, and we're not going to get them to work as well on asphalt?

Thanks,
1) You may try the greens, but I doubt they will be better. They may be faster, but the wear might not be as good.
2) We have not found an "orange" that we feel is good enough to fit in the slot above blue in hardness. We are still working on it, though.
3) The blues work well on carpet, but seem to run well on asphalt too. Sometimes the blues are simply not as quick as other brands. Usually, we find that people who work with them ( mixing tire sauce and setups) can either go as fast or get very close. How was the wear? Did you adjust the camber on the front to compensate for the fact that the tire doesn't "roll over" as much as some other brands. Maybe some others on here have suggestions. Most of the people complain of too much front bite, so the pushing issue is a little puzzling.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:00 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehobbyshop View Post
Jack, some observations from this last weekend's racing, and questions:
Our track is 128' x 72' outdoor sealed asphalt. We spray VHT fairly heavily. Lap times are around 13 seconds for 10.5. Temps this weekend were in the low to mid 80's, and sunny. Track temps between 100-120 deg.
I ran the Blues, and found the car to push consistantly. I tried several suspension changes, and the car still pushed. Ran Sorex 32's and 36's as a comparison tire. My lap times were off by around .3 a lap with the Jacos. To keep things even, I put one practice run on the Jaco's, one on each of the Sorex's, and then did one qualifier with each tire to get accurate real world racing condition lap times.
Jaco's: qualified 6th
Sorex 32's: qualified 4th
Sorex 36's: qualified 2nd (was on TQ, and dorked a corner)

Also that day, our local X-Ray driver tried them out as well. He found that they would push going into the turn, and then snap oversteer. He tried a couple setup changes, and then returned to the Sorex's.

One of our mid-pack guys tried them as well. He was slower, but didn't do any setup changes, and would like for me and our X-Ray guy to solve the tires, so he can run them as well.

So, my questions are:
1. Should we have tried the greens, even though the harder Sorex tires seemed to work better?
2. Are the Orange tires going to be available soon for testing as well?
3. Are the Jaco's designed for carpet, and we're not going to get them to work as well on asphalt?

Thanks,
Being civil and not gonna bring up any old stuff here.

This is a very similar situation that alot drivers were compalaining about at the Xray race in Portland. The conditions sound very similar and the track prep is very similar.

Are these just a flat out a better carpet tire than asphalt? Unless you have a permanant asphalt track that is open on a daily basis, it seems tough to get this tire to be hooked up with limited track time.

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Old 08-04-2008, 08:14 PM   #475
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Having not ran the new Jacos (or the old ones), I'm left wondering: Are you guys pointing out that the tires aren't as fast as something else on the market, or are you saying these tires are un-drivable? There's a big difference, especially since Jack never claimed they were going to be good for 2 tenths everywhere or anywhere. All he needs his tires to be are available, consistent, hard to break, and drivable. Hasn't he achieved that?

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...still running last year's RP30s (about 50 runs on them).
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:27 PM   #476
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Thanks for the response Jack.
1. We didn't try the greens because we felt a harder tire would not get as greasy on a fairly hot day.
2. Glad to hear that you're not rushing a product to market that doesn't meet quality expectations.
3. The blues wore decently for the rear tires, but the fronts seemed to get the dreaded inner ring wear after 3 hard runs. I did add an extra half degree of camber in the front as I've heard this is the first setup change to make for the new tires. The tire sauce I used was a 50/50 mixture of tire tweak and SXT2.0.
As an added note, I prefer a car with slight oversteer. I had read that the Jacos were oversteering for most drivers which drew me towards the tires.

I typically get 8-10 good runs on the Sorex 32's with little dropoff in times. I'm going to try an extra couple runs on the Jaco's this weekend. Any suggestion on tire sauce to try to get the magical better grip and wear?

The only bad thing about this weekend is that the weather may not cooperate for hot weather testing. We're only expected to get up to around 80 degrees.

Thanks,
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:30 PM   #477
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I have a set of rp30's from the "bad batch" and boy do i wish i could get hold of their owner . I really appreciate Jack taking the time to com one and answer questions hear what racers have to say good or bad.

My issue w/ the Blue's were they were a bit too hard for the track i think greens would have been better.

As far as wear goes, i'm not really sure what other's experiences have been but i've got a stack of 1 and 2 run tires i buy used of all brands. People seem to think all brands only last one to 2 runs tops i guess so i find it interesting that so many people are tlaking about long term wear.

I personally run them and just about everything else 'till they look like fred flinstone wheels or they tear off the rim . Granted i'm not tops in the a main (getting there in the b though).. but i'm not buying a set of tires for one run either so i guess i'll never be top of the a, unless someone else is picking up the tab.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:31 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamge View Post
Having not ran the new Jacos (or the old ones), I'm left wondering: Are you guys pointing out that the tires aren't as fast as something else on the market, or are you saying these tires are un-drivable? There's a big difference, especially since Jack never claimed they were going to be good for 2 tenths everywhere or anywhere. All he needs his tires to be are available, consistent, hard to break, and drivable. Hasn't he achieved that?

Adam
...still running last year's RP30s (about 50 runs on them).

I think most of us are just pointing out observations. Your expectations on tires are different from one person to another.. I look for balance of performance vs tire life....
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:41 PM   #479
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I think Jaco has come out with a consistent (from run to run) and durable tire. Not to mention great looking. B/c of that I think people really want to run them and be able to compete. So I think the questions are just to figure out how to get them to work best to compete with other tires such as Sorex. People seem to be faster with Sorex but that may just be b/c they have ran them for a while and their car is setup best for them.

Also since the Jaco tire will likely be a spec tire at a lot of races people need to know how to get them to work optimally.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:42 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamge View Post
Having not ran the new Jacos (or the old ones), I'm left wondering: Are you guys pointing out that the tires aren't as fast as something else on the market, or are you saying these tires are un-drivable? There's a big difference, especially since Jack never claimed they were going to be good for 2 tenths everywhere or anywhere. All he needs his tires to be are available, consistent, hard to break, and drivable. Hasn't he achieved that?

Adam
...still running last year's RP30s (about 50 runs on them).
In my opinion Jack has achieved a sellable tire, but I haven't tested the durability of the rims yet, and hope I don't have to test that any time soon.

The Jaco tires currently are not as fast as another brand tire. I'm trying to figure a way to get the Jacos up to the same speed as another brand so I can give my customers a choice in tire selection. We've been pretty much running Sorex tires for a couple years now, and have been happy with them. But, customers always want something different, so I'm trying to give my customers an alternative brand that will run as fast as our primary tires.

By all means, the Jacos are driveable tires, and would not discourage anyone from purchasing either Sorex or Jaco tires. I am always concerned with tire availability and price. So having a workable setup to give my customers with various tires is very imporant to keeping my racing program viable and growing. I'm always amazed that more tracks don't take this approach.
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