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Old 05-12-2010, 02:29 AM   #14656
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Just been having a look at its spec

1/10 Xcelorin S 17.5T Brushless Motor
At a Glance

Losi’s 1/10 Xcelorin Sensored Brushless Systems provide a distinct advantage in situations where the supplied power must be controlled and precise. These sensored brushless systems are also ideal for instances in which starting torque is crucial or where a substantial amount of initial torque is required, such as in racing or rock crawling.




So it would suggest to me that it has alot of timing in the can

try droping the timing 10 and turn your turbo off and work from there and gear it from 4.5 to 5.5

And if your getting hot after a min there is definantly something wrong
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:31 AM   #14657
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Guys, I have query regarding the Rpm ranges. I run 17.5 on a large technical track and by the end of the 160ft straight my motors screaming. I don't have any data logging gear but i wonder what sort of RPM i am doing and whether i have my RPM settings on the Tekin set right. Obviously there is a ceiling for usable power and I want to tap into the knowledge bank here and save myself some testing time. here is my default set up

Xray T3 FDR 8.26
Duo2 17.5 motor timing set to zero degrees
profile 4 no drag brakes 100% brake
Boost 50 ramp 2
turbo 10 zero delay
start 4600ish end 13000


This is not my fastest set up but is consistently quick and does not have extreme motor temperatures. Ill add extra boost or turbo if im struggling for speed at the expense of some extra heat but my car has enough corner speed and equal straight line to be comfortable most of the time.

They say the current motors can spool up to around 35000rpm so i wonder whether im using the right RPM ranges and what sort of range is most effective. I also wonder whether using a lot shorter rpm ranges like 2k start, 8k end and dropping the gearing around the 5.5/6FDR range and let it wind out with the gearing a bit more will give me the feel im after along with the speed i need?

In raising the rpm range to something like a 8k start and 20k end, will that effect the boost by having a much more progressive feel for a lot longer time later in the power band or would i be wasting the lower power band and make the car sluggish everywhere else? How would the zero delay turbo be effected by this change also?

Ive found with really fast set ups the Speedy feels a little un-comfortable and a bit like driving an on/off switch which is not conductive of the smooth lines stock racers like on big tracks. I am getting to the pointy end of set up and these are things i have not played with a lot so If any of the Team guys or anyone else for that matter has tested some wild rpm ranges your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards Benzaah
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:56 AM   #14658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Guys, I have query regarding the Rpm ranges. I run 17.5 on a large technical track and by the end of the 160ft straight my motors screaming. I don't have any data logging gear but i wonder what sort of RPM i am doing and whether i have my RPM settings on the Tekin set right. Obviously there is a ceiling for usable power and I want to tap into the knowledge bank here and save myself some testing time. here is my default set up

Xray T3 FDR 8.26
Duo2 17.5 motor timing set to zero degrees
profile 4 no drag brakes 100% brake
Boost 50 ramp 2
turbo 10 zero delay
start 4600ish end 13000


This is not my fastest set up but is consistently quick and does not have extreme motor temperatures. Ill add extra boost or turbo if im struggling for speed at the expense of some extra heat but my car has enough corner speed and equal straight line to be comfortable most of the time.

They say the current motors can spool up to around 35000rpm so i wonder whether im using the right RPM ranges and what sort of range is most effective. I also wonder whether using a lot shorter rpm ranges like 2k start, 8k end and dropping the gearing around the 5.5/6FDR range and let it wind out with the gearing a bit more will give me the feel im after along with the speed i need?

In raising the rpm range to something like a 8k start and 20k end, will that effect the boost by having a much more progressive feel for a lot longer time later in the power band or would i be wasting the lower power band and make the car sluggish everywhere else? How would the zero delay turbo be effected by this change also?

Ive found with really fast set ups the Speedy feels a little un-comfortable and a bit like driving an on/off switch which is not conductive of the smooth lines stock racers like on big tracks. I am getting to the pointy end of set up and these are things i have not played with a lot so If any of the Team guys or anyone else for that matter has tested some wild rpm ranges your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards Benzaah
Well I would try dropping the gearing a little. You seem a little undergeared for a 160ft straight. If the 8.26 is getting it done infield then you probably should drop to 7.8 or 7.9 to start. If this doesn't feel as good you will need to adjust the controller. First I would add turbo delay to .2 and leave everything else the same.
The RPM range for the gearing is about right. You could try a little higher end number but that would just smooth out the acceleration and if you are not getting the speed down the straight probably wouldn't help you out much.
If its still not fast enough then try and even lower FDR.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:11 AM   #14659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Guys, I have query regarding the Rpm ranges. I run 17.5 on a large technical track and by the end of the 160ft straight my motors screaming. I don't have any data logging gear but i wonder what sort of RPM i am doing and whether i have my RPM settings on the Tekin set right. Obviously there is a ceiling for usable power and I want to tap into the knowledge bank here and save myself some testing time. here is my default set up

Xray T3 FDR 8.26
Duo2 17.5 motor timing set to zero degrees
profile 4 no drag brakes 100% brake
Boost 50 ramp 2
turbo 10 zero delay
start 4600ish end 13000


This is not my fastest set up but is consistently quick and does not have extreme motor temperatures. Ill add extra boost or turbo if im struggling for speed at the expense of some extra heat but my car has enough corner speed and equal straight line to be comfortable most of the time.

They say the current motors can spool up to around 35000rpm so i wonder whether im using the right RPM ranges and what sort of range is most effective. I also wonder whether using a lot shorter rpm ranges like 2k start, 8k end and dropping the gearing around the 5.5/6FDR range and let it wind out with the gearing a bit more will give me the feel im after along with the speed i need?

In raising the rpm range to something like a 8k start and 20k end, will that effect the boost by having a much more progressive feel for a lot longer time later in the power band or would i be wasting the lower power band and make the car sluggish everywhere else? How would the zero delay turbo be effected by this change also?

Ive found with really fast set ups the Speedy feels a little un-comfortable and a bit like driving an on/off switch which is not conductive of the smooth lines stock racers like on big tracks. I am getting to the pointy end of set up and these are things i have not played with a lot so If any of the Team guys or anyone else for that matter has tested some wild rpm ranges your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards Benzaah
for a track that size, i think you are under gear. I also believe that your rpm range is too low. in a 1/12 with a 17.5 my slowest point on a carpet track is 3000rpm. so your start of around 4600, i believe is way low. My belief is that if you are running a zero delay setup, that you need more turbo, but then you need a VERY broad range in the rpm band. basically you are using the turbo to get you out of the corners and you are using the timing boost to get you to full speed. so the rpm range should be close to the fastest that little motor will spin at 50-60 degrees of timing. and a 17.5 will do 35,000+ with that much timing in it. but after all that on large tracks, I do not believe that a zero delay setup is optimal. i believe zero delay setups work for more technical tracks. I would push your turbo delay out to when it just comes on the first 1/4 of the straight and the motor spools fully by 1/2 to 3/4 of the straight.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:53 AM   #14660
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Interesting thoughts guys. i have never run this speedy with a delayed turbo set up so that would be something new. If you could post a full set up i could try. I used to think that was under geared as well but when all the fastest guys in the club are running those settings you gotta wonder. All the lower fdrs do is smooth out the power band a little and make the car a bit more sluggish. Times have been set faster than 10.5 super stock so its scary fast in the right hands(not mine ) The guys with the Rs and 10.5 super stock motors are running near the 10 FDR's.

FYI Heres the track. We run anti clockwise, take the first cut through on the right side of the track and the first cut through before the twisties on the left and around to the second cut after the right sweeper onto the straight. http://www.nearmap.com/[email protected]&nmd=20100216

Your thoughts are appreciated. Keep em coming. Benzaah.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:08 AM   #14661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Interesting thoughts guys. i have never run this speedy with a delayed turbo set up so that would be something new. If you could post a full set up i could try. I used to think that was under geared as well but when all the fastest guys in the club are running those settings you gotta wonder. All the lower fdrs do is smooth out the power band a little and make the car a bit more sluggish. Times have been set faster than 10.5 super stock so its scary fast in the right hands(not mine ) The guys with the Rs and 10.5 super stock motors are running near the 10 FDR's.

FYI Heres the track. We run anti clockwise, take the first cut through on the right side of the track and the first cut through before the twisties on the left and around to the second cut after the right sweeper onto the straight. http://www.nearmap.com/[email protected]&nmd=20100216

Your thoughts are appreciated. Keep em coming. Benzaah.
that is a nice track,is it a fast flowing or a slow infield
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:28 AM   #14662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Guys, I have query regarding the Rpm ranges. I run 17.5 on a large technical track and by the end of the 160ft straight my motors screaming.


Ive found with really fast set ups the Speedy feels a little un-comfortable and a bit like driving an on/off switch which is not conductive of the smooth lines stock racers like on big tracks.
Regards Benzaah
+1 on the gearing suggestion, if the motor is flat out before the end of the straight, you need some more speed.

How does your car compare to others, are you being passed?

As for the on off switch feel, try a different throttle profile or turbo ramp, might help you get a better feel for it

Maybe the change in gearing and a change in start / end turbo will lean it out a bit too though on how it feels, so see how it goes on that before changing the throttle profile.

As with any setup changes, you only get a true feel of what is going on if you change one thing at a time
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:36 AM   #14663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Guys, I have query regarding the Rpm ranges. I run 17.5 on a large technical track and by the end of the 160ft straight my motors screaming. I don't have any data logging gear but i wonder what sort of RPM i am doing and whether i have my RPM settings on the Tekin set right. Obviously there is a ceiling for usable power and I want to tap into the knowledge bank here and save myself some testing time. here is my default set up

Xray T3 FDR 8.26
Duo2 17.5 motor timing set to zero degrees
profile 4 no drag brakes 100% brake
Boost 50 ramp 2
turbo 10 zero delay
start 4600ish end 13000


This is not my fastest set up but is consistently quick and does not have extreme motor temperatures. Ill add extra boost or turbo if im struggling for speed at the expense of some extra heat but my car has enough corner speed and equal straight line to be comfortable most of the time.

They say the current motors can spool up to around 35000rpm so i wonder whether im using the right RPM ranges and what sort of range is most effective. I also wonder whether using a lot shorter rpm ranges like 2k start, 8k end and dropping the gearing around the 5.5/6FDR range and let it wind out with the gearing a bit more will give me the feel im after along with the speed i need?

In raising the rpm range to something like a 8k start and 20k end, will that effect the boost by having a much more progressive feel for a lot longer time later in the power band or would i be wasting the lower power band and make the car sluggish everywhere else? How would the zero delay turbo be effected by this change also?

Ive found with really fast set ups the Speedy feels a little un-comfortable and a bit like driving an on/off switch which is not conductive of the smooth lines stock racers like on big tracks. I am getting to the pointy end of set up and these are things i have not played with a lot so If any of the Team guys or anyone else for that matter has tested some wild rpm ranges your thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards Benzaah
Hi Benzaah,

I run on a track with about the same size straight away and we all run our final drives in the mid-to-high 6's for 17.5 Duo2 motors. I even run some timing on my motor. At our last race I actually overtook the TQ car on the first lap on the straight away, I had that much more power than him.

I would try the following changes:

-Gear up to the mid 6's low 7's. I would start around 6.8 and try that.
-Increase your turbo delay to 0.1 or 0.2.
-Change your RPM range to approx. 5000 start - 18000 end.
-Last, try adding a half tick and then a full tick of timing to the motor. It should really make the car come alive. You will need to adjust your gearing some more at this point. Don't do this until you've set the other changes, as it will increase the temp of your motor. Watch it carefully, you are walking a thin line at this point.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:58 AM   #14664
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Has anyone got a good base set up for the Ballistic 17.5, medium track and motor on the "N" mark.

I usually run the DUO1 motors and don't have much testing time at the event I'm going to on the weekend and I want to try it to see how it compares to the DUO.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:36 AM   #14665
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james i set one up a few weeks ago at SMA but the guy is not ready to push it yet

20 timing
10 boost
ramp 2

4xxx
15xxx

geared 5.5
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:42 AM   #14666
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Cheers, I've been running the Ballistic 13.5 at clubbies and been pushing it but temps are still under control and no fade

I've been running the 13.5 with 45 timing and 10 turbo with motor on it's factory setting. Delay of 0 and rev range of 6,000 to 18,000 and FDR of 8.4.

I might try something similar in settings but with an FDR of high 7's
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:51 AM   #14667
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see you friday if your up for practice if not see ya saturday
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:34 AM   #14668
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Originally Posted by 20 SMOKE View Post
that is a nice track,is it a fast flowing or a slow infield

As you look at the map I would not call the right infield slow but the left one especially what we call the shrek ears(the left right left right section) can cost you over a second if your line is out. Stock is running high 22's/23 second laps, 10.5 high 21's/22's and mod low 21's

Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team View Post
+1 on the gearing suggestion, if the motor is flat out before the end of the straight, you need some more speed.

How does your car compare to others, are you being passed?

As for the on off switch feel, try a different throttle profile or turbo ramp, might help you get a better feel for it

Maybe the change in gearing and a change in start / end turbo will lean it out a bit too though on how it feels, so see how it goes on that before changing the throttle profile.

As with any setup changes, you only get a true feel of what is going on if you change one thing at a time
Except when some of the mod racers come down and race stock for a laugh i am the fastest regular Stock runner at the club. I know that when we have state titles etc i am still a good half a second off the pace so im trying to find that in the next 12 weeks before we have our state titles and all the other fast drivers nationally show up to kick ass. I would say that my motor is only just topping out by the very end of the straight. I have run from a 7.0 ratio up to a 9.0 ratio to test with the only difference then being a smoother power band and a little sluggish off the line at the end of the race. With the Throttle profiles, 3 is less aggressive than my 4? And turbo ramp 1 is slower than 2 yeah?

Going by what you've mentioned If i want to keep the zero delay i should drop the boost to 40, stretch out the start and end rpm, up my turbo to 15 and add a touch motor timing with a 7.6ish ratio. And if I want to smooth it out even more then change the throttle profile to 3 and ramp to 1.

Or if i want to add some delay by 0.1 increments and leave the set up as is with a change in ratio to a low 7?


Any other thoughts are still appreciated. Regards Benzaah
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Last edited by Benzaah; 05-13-2010 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:44 AM   #14669
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
Guys, Except when some of the mod racers come down and race stock for a laugh i am the fastest regular Stock runner at the club. I know that when we have state titles etc i am still a good half a second off the pace so im trying to find that in the next 12 weeks before we have our state titles and all the other fast drivers nationally show up to kick ass. I have run from a 7.0 ratio up to a 9.0 ratio to test with the only difference then being a smoother power band and a little sluggish off the line at the end of the race. I might stretch out the end rpm, up my turbo, drop the boost and add a touch motor timing with a 7.6ish ratio and see what happens.


Any other thoughts are still appreciated. Regards Benzaah
I like to try and follow the fast guys in practice to see where the car is lacking, that might give you a better insight
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:53 AM   #14670
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Benzaah: There is really no reason to run 0 turbo delay. In fact, it may be slowing you down.

Try increasing the delay to .2 and changing the ramp to 3 (along with all the other suggestions given to you on this page).
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