R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-20-2010, 09:33 AM   #13441
Tech Elite
 
pakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,077
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

I've ran 17.5tc, 17.5 1s 12th, and 13.5 1s WGT with no issues of brakes. I lock them up easily. I wouldn't consider any of it high speed racing though.

I have another question though. I recently started using drag break. Is drag break relative to brake strength? Example. If I sent brake strength to 50 and drag break to 50, do I have 25 of available break for 50?
__________________
*Photon* *SC10 4x4*
RCRD
pakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 10:17 AM   #13442
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pakk View Post
I have another question though. I recently started using drag break. Is drag break relative to brake strength? Example. If I sent brake strength to 50 and drag break to 50, do I have 25 of available break for 50?
You know, that's a damn good question and I have no idea. But then, I've stopped using drag brake to keep temps down.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 10:34 AM   #13443
Tech Elite
 
pakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,077
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

I tried drag break a long time ago, but I needed the extra temp buffer. So I never messed with it. But now with 203, I have so much more room for temp, I started using it again. I don't think I could over heat my motors with a fan blowing on them even if I tried.
__________________
*Photon* *SC10 4x4*
RCRD
pakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 10:35 AM   #13444
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,920
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker View Post
I too also was struggling for brakes. Then I put a new motor in, sp17.5 version2, which replaced the same old motor, and now I have brakes

before, the wheels wouldnt even lock up, but now I need to set my TX epa to 80%

would not think a new motor would have such an effect. I guess the rotor of brushless motors loose their magnetism over time, however you cannot feel the difference when free spinning the motors by hand.
this is a new motor , ready for the season ahead

it is not really a complaint just an obsevation , maybe as i said it is just the extra speed i have or the fact i have been racing indoors with a 30m straight now i have a 70m straight
sidecarphil1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 11:00 AM   #13445
Tech Elite
 
niznai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: All over the place
Posts: 2,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krio View Post
All hail the translation of sarcasm on the internet!
I had absolutely no intention of sarcasm. I thought your spelling error was intentional and a cool joke and I wrote my message to signal that I get the joke. If you're offended, I apologise and reassure you there was absolutely no intention of malice on my part.

I remember seeing that graph before. That's what I want. I understand that is just a drawing not actual data?

Let's say that was data on a real motor. What I would want to achieve when tuning my car would be to "jump" from curve to curve such that my motor is always at peak torque (whatever speed I am doing). This can be achieved with the Tekin by carefully choosing the boost and turbo parameters. However, the drawing is incomplete. In reality there are an infinity of curves like those drawn by Krio, each for every infinitely small timing increase. All these together would be the map he was talking about. In practice perhaps you can do without knowing where all these curves are, but you need to know their inflection points. These will decide when you want to leave one curve and "jump" on another.

"Load" as in the amount of energy needed to produce the desired effect. The car's mass is what we're trying to accelerate, but sometimes we want to accelerate it faster than other times. A higher acceleration will put more load on the motor. I know in theory this has absolutely no impact on motor's torque, but there's a niggling thought that it does. My knowledge of motors and electrics/electronics is getting a little rusty and out of date these days.

I am still trying to clarify my thoughts about why I think load may affect torque. I know that torque is like voltage, i.e. in theory is not affected by load, but then again, (to continue the analogy) a large load will cause voltage to drop on a power source of finite power. I know the analogy is not perfect, and I am trying to imagine an experiment that would not rely on this analogy, but I have come up only with experiments that in my own opinion reinforce the idea that torque is not affected by load so I am defeating myself right now. I am though not happy enough with these experiments to be convinced it's all peachy. I need to think some more about how torque is produced in electric motors.
__________________
Team Greasy Weasel

The best upgrade to any car is some driver skill.
niznai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 11:46 AM   #13446
Tech Elite
 
hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vic, Australia
Posts: 3,136
Trader Rating: 141 (100%+)
Default

is there a block I can put on someone so I dont need to hear anymore crap
hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 12:56 PM   #13447
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Helmond
Posts: 1,544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecarphil1 View Post
Yeah whan i was indoors the brakes were great

It just seams that when the speeds are really high then they suffer a little

I am running about 50 timing and max turbo , using the Tekin 13.5 motor 2S in an Xray T3

Gearing of 5.5
Wow that's a lot of Turbo.
Your timing is high. How much motor timing do you use?
Did you use this setup also when you motor went so hot?

Lower the Turbo to 10 and set the motor timing on 5 and Boost on 50.
Than watch the temp and as the temp is good gear heavier.
I think that you go better with a Boost of 45.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecarphil1 View Post
this is a new motor , ready for the season ahead

it is not really a complaint just an obsevation , maybe as i said it is just the extra speed i have or the fact i have been racing indoors with a 30m straight now i have a 70m straight
I found that a Turbo on max makes the brakes weaker. Don;t ask me why but as I use more Turbo and a lower Boost I got weaker brakes. The car with more Turbo wasn't faster.
Find a balance with it.
__________________
http://www.mikky32.com
Tekin RS pro
TOP racing Photon
Tekin Redline 10,5
Protoform LTC-R
mikky32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 04:08 PM   #13448
Tech Champion
 
STLNLST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 8,997
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pakk View Post
I've ran 17.5tc, 17.5 1s 12th, and 13.5 1s WGT with no issues of brakes. I lock them up easily. I wouldn't consider any of it high speed racing though.

I have another question though. I recently started using drag break. Is drag break relative to brake strength? Example. If I sent brake strength to 50 and drag break to 50, do I have 25 of available break for 50?
Drag brake is what's applied when you let off poweer basically letting the trigger go to neutral. Brake strength is the amount of braking power you'll have when applying trigger brake. Does any of this make sense to you? Drag brakes IMO can help you out in the corners where you need that small amount to slow down to hit a line and get right back on power, Finger brake IMO is used to really slow you down if you're coming up hard on someone or to dive in on someone in a corner......this is what I use them for. Someone correct me if I'm wrong If you make it out to SWR tomorrow "MO THE GREAT" will be there and he's a ton of info no matter what you're running
STLNLST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 04:22 PM   #13449
Tech Elite
 
pakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,077
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
Drag brake is what's applied when you let off poweer basically letting the trigger go to neutral. Brake strength is the amount of braking power you'll have when applying trigger brake. Does any of this make sense to you? Drag brakes IMO can help you out in the corners where you need that small amount to slow down to hit a line and get right back on power, Finger brake IMO is used to really slow you down if you're coming up hard on someone or to dive in on someone in a corner......this is what I use them for. Someone correct me if I'm wrong If you make it out to SWR tomorrow "MO THE GREAT" will be there and he's a ton of info no matter what you're running
I understand drag brake and brake completely. And unfortunately I have to continue house hunting tomorrow I can't make it out. I been meaning to hit speedworld up though. It was the first track I have ever been to and haven't been back since.

But re-read my post. I am asking if your drag break setting is relative to brake strength.

So let's assume I use no drag brake. If I set brake to 100%, I have full braking power. Now if I set it to 50%, I have half of my braking power. In another situation, I set my brake strength to 100%. Now let's say I set my drag brake to 50. In the neutral position, the esc will apply 50% braking power.

But now, lets say I set my brake strength to 50% and I set my drag brake to 50%. Is drag brake applying 50% of available brake regardless of brake strength, or is applying 50% of brake strength. In this case, 25% brake strength.

I guess I could easily just test this myself, but I won't be able to this weekend. I just started thinking about it and asked.
__________________
*Photon* *SC10 4x4*
RCRD
pakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 04:39 PM   #13450
Tech Champion
 
STLNLST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 8,997
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pakk View Post
I understand drag brake and brake completely. And unfortunately I have to continue house hunting tomorrow I can't make it out. I been meaning to hit speedworld up though. It was the first track I have ever been to and haven't been back since.

But re-read my post. I am asking if your drag break setting is relative to brake strength.

So let's assume I use no drag brake. If I set brake to 100%, I have full braking power. Now if I set it to 50%, I have half of my braking power. In another situation, I set my brake strength to 100%. Now let's say I set my drag brake to 50. In the neutral position, the esc will apply 50% braking power.

But now, lets say I set my brake strength to 50% and I set my drag brake to 50%. Is drag brake applying 50% of available brake regardless of brake strength, or is applying 50% of brake strength. In this case, 25% brake strength.

I guess I could easily just test this myself, but I won't be able to this weekend. I just started thinking about it and asked.
Gotcha....in theory 100% brake power and zero drag brake shouldn't affect one another and the same should go for a 50/50 setting because brake power isn't applied until you push past the neeutral setting where as the drag brakes take affect at center/neutral. I get what you're asking but I don't know enough to accurately answer it but I always thought they were seperate items. Randy should be along shortly......LOL Good luck with the house hunting. What area are you looking at??
STLNLST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 05:01 PM   #13451
Tech Addict
 
hana166's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 677
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
For those of you with braking issues, could you please list your settings, motors, chassis, gearing, transmitter, etc.

fwiw, the brakes with my RS on 12th, F1 & Touring have been more than enough. I have noticed though, the more esc timing the stronger they are.
v203 brakes are the best yet on the RS.
+1
I had the RS Pro back with v180-189 and found the brakes much too weak. Love the speedo and the company in particular but I went away some time ago because of this and have become a committed GM user since (still am).....

But the other day I decided to play with the v203. Impressive power and the brakes are much, much stronger, with good feel too. And with the high build quality and small size..well its a wicked little package now isn't it? They've really sorted this out. Brilliant speedo. Job done Tekin
hana166 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 05:14 PM   #13452
Tech Elite
 
pakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,077
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
Gotcha....in theory 100% brake power and zero drag brake shouldn't affect one another and the same should go for a 50/50 setting because brake power isn't applied until you push past the neeutral setting where as the drag brakes take affect at center/neutral. I get what you're asking but I don't know enough to accurately answer it but I always thought they were seperate items. Randy should be along shortly......LOL Good luck with the house hunting. What area are you looking at??
Tracy. I work at Tracy Honda and don't like to commute.

It would be nice if they were independent. I use drag brake and throttle brake just as you described. I pretty much only throttle to avoid an accident. So most of the time it is a panic situation and I over do it.
__________________
*Photon* *SC10 4x4*
RCRD
pakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 06:42 PM   #13453
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
Posts: 116
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default Throttle High Point vs Turbo Boost

I have read on the thread that even if I set my throttle high point to 100% and calibrate my ESC, then my controller may not always deliver 100% throttle to the ESC. Also, my finger could perhaps 'bounce' a little when attempting to deliver 100% throttle.

As the turbo boost waits for 0.3 seconds, in my case, before it starts ramping up, then if the ESC is not receiving 100% throttle continuously when I want it to, then the signal for turbo boost may be cutting in and out.

Hence, others have suggested on this thread that if you set the controller throttle high point to 90%, calibrate with the ESC, then set your controller throttle high point to 100% the above problem will be solved.

If I have already calibrated my ESC with the controller throttle high point set to 100%, but then change my controller throttle high point to 105%, will this action also solve the problem? I suspect that it will, but perhaps somebody with more experience with the interaction between controllers and ESCs could confirm it. Thanks.
Jongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 07:30 PM   #13454
Tech Elite
 
pakk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,077
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongo View Post
I have read on the thread that even if I set my throttle high point to 100% and calibrate my ESC, then my controller may not always deliver 100% throttle to the ESC. Also, my finger could perhaps 'bounce' a little when attempting to deliver 100% throttle.

As the turbo boost waits for 0.3 seconds, in my case, before it starts ramping up, then if the ESC is not receiving 100% throttle continuously when I want it to, then the signal for turbo boost may be cutting in and out.

Hence, others have suggested on this thread that if you set the controller throttle high point to 90%, calibrate with the ESC, then set your controller throttle high point to 100% the above problem will be solved.

If I have already calibrated my ESC with the controller throttle high point set to 100%, but then change my controller throttle high point to 105%, will this action also solve the problem? I suspect that it will, but perhaps somebody with more experience with the interaction between controllers and ESCs could confirm it. Thanks.
Yeah, you are effectively doing the same thing, just with different numbers. Are you having issues with turbo kicking in?
__________________
*Photon* *SC10 4x4*
RCRD
pakk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 08:09 PM   #13455
Tech Champion
 
stiltskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 5,368
Trader Rating: 102 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongo View Post
I have read on the thread that even if I set my throttle high point to 100% and calibrate my ESC, then my controller may not always deliver 100% throttle to the ESC. Also, my finger could perhaps 'bounce' a little when attempting to deliver 100% throttle.

As the turbo boost waits for 0.3 seconds, in my case, before it starts ramping up, then if the ESC is not receiving 100% throttle continuously when I want it to, then the signal for turbo boost may be cutting in and out.

Hence, others have suggested on this thread that if you set the controller throttle high point to 90%, calibrate with the ESC, then set your controller throttle high point to 100% the above problem will be solved.

If I have already calibrated my ESC with the controller throttle high point set to 100%, but then change my controller throttle high point to 105%, will this action also solve the problem? I suspect that it will, but perhaps somebody with more experience with the interaction between controllers and ESCs could confirm it. Thanks.
The ESC should see 100% at whichever value you set. If you bump your highpoint above that, it should have the same effect. The tolerances in the radio pots are the issue (I believe). If you calibrate your radio to speedo and the highpoint is at 102% (100 +/- 2% tolerance), then your ESC will expect to see 102% before applying turbo. By setting highpoint to 90% prior to calibration, you ensure that the speedo will always see your assigned highpoint value.
__________________
Tony Rumple
Team EAM // Gravity RC
stiltskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tekin Redline RS Sensored ESC and motors, opinions for offroad? Cain Electric Off-Road 4230 06-07-2015 04:38 PM
Sensored vs. Sensorless lemansracer Electric On-Road 71 02-14-2009 03:19 AM
New Tekin Redline Sensored Motors are Roar Legal! Randy_Pike Electric On-Road 3 08-05-2008 02:08 AM
Tekin Redline Sensored 10.5 HUCKMAN Electric On-Road 6 07-15-2008 08:50 PM
sensored vs sensorless bprocket Rookie Zone 5 05-16-2008 09:38 AM


Tags
v203, vegas 2.0


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:31 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net