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Old 03-10-2010, 09:57 PM   #13186
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where are all the mod setups?

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Youshould have been out there last week when we all came out to play Mo and Billy ran a 4.5 and Dujuan and I ran 5.5's Hit Mo up for his set up.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:57 AM   #13187
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Default 3 gear setup... work in progress, but progressing!

managed to test the RPM ranges tonight..
b46, t14, delay0, Orca 17.5, reedy 5000, tekin rs,....

4500-13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg - 146F
7000- 15000 - 9.4 fast, 9.7 20 lag avg - 128F
9000-18000 - 9.8 fast, 10.1 20 lap avg - 115F
11000-20000 - 10.2 fast, 10.4 20 lap avg - 113F

with the 11,000 you could see the boost coming in (or boost+turbo) 15 ft off the corner... 10,000 closer to the corner, 9000 just off corner.... something between to 8500-8750 is probably the right number, but I didnt quickly find something that yielded that as a starting RPM...

dialed end RPM down....
15000 - 9.5 fast, 9.9 20 lap avg, 118F
13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 125F
12500 - 9.0 fast, 9.2 20 lap avg, 136F
11500 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 149F

I probably got a little quicker as the night went on (our track changes monthly, traction coming up, etc)... and the 9.0 was probably just a cleaner lap then the 9.1.... but I dropped the temp 20F... by finding the sweet spot for the start RPM, and then narrowing the End RPM to get the speed back...

The punch and speed increased in the infield... All runs were made without any setup changes to reduce the variables... with the new setup I'd be quicker with some more rear traction dialed into the car.... next step will be to increase boost to 50/max with end RPM of 15000 and see where that comes in temp wise...

The sling shot part of the acceleration is done just past the half way mark on the straight... adding more boost should extend that... if it starts to cog, originally I was thinking of adding a delay, but I think it would better to reduce turbo and keep 0 delay instead...

13000-9000 / 46 = ~90 RPM/degree timing... will see how that value changes with increased boost... will be related to FDR also, turbo is in there somewhere, but might be helpful...

An interesting note, the car was noticeably quicker on the first 1/2 of the straight, other tekin cars had more top end, but we ended up traveling the straight in the same time with a slinky effect between cars, with me defending going into turn one because of the early jump ahead ... entering turn one at a lower top speed made it easy to keep very tight....

the focus on maximizing early acceleration... and not on the top speed is paying dividends!

Tomorrow we should have some telemetry gear going, so Ill get an idea of where I am for max RPM .... and try adjusting the gearing to put me closer to the 30k mark?

Finally, I will switch back to the Nemesis, starting with conservative numbers for b & t and see if that unlocks the beast.... based on the ~9000RPM, and the old profile (4500-13000), 52% of my 40 boost or 21 degrees would have been applied all the time (or even more with a 2500 RPM start, eek)... no wonder it was so hot... cant wait to try it!

Hopefully this information is helping others find some good settings and get things dialed in...
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:48 AM   #13188
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Default testing turbo

is there a way of testing a speed control of its turbo function/full throttle position without
a) disconnecting a motor wire or sensor wire
b) damaging esc/motor from no load high rpm's
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:47 AM   #13189
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Originally Posted by twk-b View Post
managed to test the RPM ranges tonight..
b46, t14, delay0, Orca 17.5, reedy 5000, tekin rs,....

4500-13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg - 146F
7000- 15000 - 9.4 fast, 9.7 20 lag avg - 128F
9000-18000 - 9.8 fast, 10.1 20 lap avg - 115F
11000-20000 - 10.2 fast, 10.4 20 lap avg - 113F

with the 11,000 you could see the boost coming in (or boost+turbo) 15 ft off the corner... 10,000 closer to the corner, 9000 just off corner.... something between to 8500-8750 is probably the right number, but I didnt quickly find something that yielded that as a starting RPM...

dialed end RPM down....
15000 - 9.5 fast, 9.9 20 lap avg, 118F
13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 125F
12500 - 9.0 fast, 9.2 20 lap avg, 136F
11500 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 149F

I probably got a little quicker as the night went on (our track changes monthly, traction coming up, etc)... and the 9.0 was probably just a cleaner lap then the 9.1.... but I dropped the temp 20F... by finding the sweet spot for the start RPM, and then narrowing the End RPM to get the speed back...

The punch and speed increased in the infield... All runs were made without any setup changes to reduce the variables... with the new setup I'd be quicker with some more rear traction dialed into the car.... next step will be to increase boost to 50/max with end RPM of 15000 and see where that comes in temp wise...

The sling shot part of the acceleration is done just past the half way mark on the straight... adding more boost should extend that... if it starts to cog, originally I was thinking of adding a delay, but I think it would better to reduce turbo and keep 0 delay instead...

13000-9000 / 46 = ~90 RPM/degree timing... will see how that value changes with increased boost... will be related to FDR also, turbo is in there somewhere, but might be helpful...

An interesting note, the car was noticeably quicker on the first 1/2 of the straight, other tekin cars had more top end, but we ended up traveling the straight in the same time with a slinky effect between cars, with me defending going into turn one because of the early jump ahead ... entering turn one at a lower top speed made it easy to keep very tight....

the focus on maximizing early acceleration... and not on the top speed is paying dividends!

Tomorrow we should have some telemetry gear going, so Ill get an idea of where I am for max RPM .... and try adjusting the gearing to put me closer to the 30k mark?

Finally, I will switch back to the Nemesis, starting with conservative numbers for b & t and see if that unlocks the beast.... based on the ~9000RPM, and the old profile (4500-13000), 52% of my 40 boost or 21 degrees would have been applied all the time (or even more with a 2500 RPM start, eek)... no wonder it was so hot... cant wait to try it!

Hopefully this information is helping others find some good settings and get things dialed in...
Interesting stuff, will try a higher start rpm next time.

Do you have any pictures/video of the track you did this at?

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Old 03-11-2010, 07:59 AM   #13190
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Originally Posted by Serzoni View Post
I'm having an issue with the new RS in my 12th scale that has me pulling my hair out. I'm running a Novak SS 10.5 with a Speedzone 1s 5000mah 50c lipo, and I CANNOT get the speed controller to stop cogging from a standing start. It just chirps like a guinea pig and jerks forwards or backwards, depending on which mood it's in (read- totally useless). When I look at the sensor test on the speed controller, I get nothing. When I tried a 13.5 duo, it works fine. When I tried 4 other Novak motors, they didn't work either. Here's the kicker- if I use a 4-cell nimh or 2s lipo, everything works fine with the Novak motors (including the sensor test). I've tried a capacitor in the receiver, a seperate receiver pack, and also unplugging the servo (Futaba 9650).. nothing helps when I'm using the 1s lipo.

I've also played with timing and tried every version of the software from 183 up to 203. NOTHING is making a difference. If I have to buy all new motors just to run this thing, I'm going to send it back and just throw my 4cell GTB back into the car. Is there some known issue with this ESC not being able to detect the sensors in Novak motors when running 1s lipo??
i have run several novak ss motors and some of our guys are still running ss motors. they are durable and you can over gear and under gear and still they keep working. not sure what you are seeing, but I have seen if the speedo does not get the juice it needs, the motor cogs.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:09 AM   #13191
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Originally Posted by Serzoni View Post
I'm having an issue with the new RS in my 12th scale that has me pulling my hair out. I'm running a Novak SS 10.5 with a Speedzone 1s 5000mah 50c lipo, and I CANNOT get the speed controller to stop cogging from a standing start. It just chirps like a guinea pig and jerks forwards or backwards, depending on which mood it's in (read- totally useless). When I look at the sensor test on the speed controller, I get nothing. When I tried a 13.5 duo, it works fine. When I tried 4 other Novak motors, they didn't work either. Here's the kicker- if I use a 4-cell nimh or 2s lipo, everything works fine with the Novak motors (including the sensor test). I've tried a capacitor in the receiver, a seperate receiver pack, and also unplugging the servo (Futaba 9650).. nothing helps when I'm using the 1s lipo.

I've also played with timing and tried every version of the software from 183 up to 203. NOTHING is making a difference. If I have to buy all new motors just to run this thing, I'm going to send it back and just throw my 4cell GTB back into the car. Is there some known issue with this ESC not being able to detect the sensors in Novak motors when running 1s lipo??
As it sees the sensor with 4 cell and with lipo 2 cell it must than also work with lipo.
Did you mark the 1S lipo?
Did you try a lower Boost setting?
Set the Boost on 30 and try it again.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:15 AM   #13192
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I've tried it with the 1S setting both on and off. I've also tried with boost cranked up AND turned all the way down. Same for the turbo when using the 200 and 203 software. I was thinking it might be a voltage issue, but I only have the issue when using the Novak motors. With the Duo based motor, it still functioned fine on 1S...??


I also tried a the same Novak 10.5 and 1s lipo using the RS that's in my touring car and had the same issue. The lipo is fully charged to 4.22v, so I don't think it's the battery that's causing the issue. The battery worked perfectly fine with my GTB, and it works fine when using the Duo 13.5.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:48 AM   #13193
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Interesting stuff, will try a higher start rpm next time.

Do you have any pictures/video of the track you did this at?

Skiddins
Ill take a pictures of it tonight....

we are changing the track layout tonight for a regional race... rolling out another 20 ft or so of carpet with a new layout... ill grab a shot of that too so I have it for when I post data for that track...
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:58 AM   #13194
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Originally Posted by twk-b View Post
managed to test the RPM ranges tonight..
b46, t14, delay0, Orca 17.5, reedy 5000, tekin rs,....

4500-13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg - 146F
7000- 15000 - 9.4 fast, 9.7 20 lag avg - 128F
9000-18000 - 9.8 fast, 10.1 20 lap avg - 115F
11000-20000 - 10.2 fast, 10.4 20 lap avg - 113F

with the 11,000 you could see the boost coming in (or boost+turbo) 15 ft off the corner... 10,000 closer to the corner, 9000 just off corner.... something between to 8500-8750 is probably the right number, but I didnt quickly find something that yielded that as a starting RPM...

dialed end RPM down....
15000 - 9.5 fast, 9.9 20 lap avg, 118F
13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 125F
12500 - 9.0 fast, 9.2 20 lap avg, 136F
11500 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 149F

I probably got a little quicker as the night went on (our track changes monthly, traction coming up, etc)... and the 9.0 was probably just a cleaner lap then the 9.1.... but I dropped the temp 20F... by finding the sweet spot for the start RPM, and then narrowing the End RPM to get the speed back...

The punch and speed increased in the infield... All runs were made without any setup changes to reduce the variables... with the new setup I'd be quicker with some more rear traction dialed into the car.... next step will be to increase boost to 50/max with end RPM of 15000 and see where that comes in temp wise...

The sling shot part of the acceleration is done just past the half way mark on the straight... adding more boost should extend that... if it starts to cog, originally I was thinking of adding a delay, but I think it would better to reduce turbo and keep 0 delay instead...

13000-9000 / 46 = ~90 RPM/degree timing... will see how that value changes with increased boost... will be related to FDR also, turbo is in there somewhere, but might be helpful...

An interesting note, the car was noticeably quicker on the first 1/2 of the straight, other tekin cars had more top end, but we ended up traveling the straight in the same time with a slinky effect between cars, with me defending going into turn one because of the early jump ahead ... entering turn one at a lower top speed made it easy to keep very tight....

the focus on maximizing early acceleration... and not on the top speed is paying dividends!

Tomorrow we should have some telemetry gear going, so Ill get an idea of where I am for max RPM .... and try adjusting the gearing to put me closer to the 30k mark?

Finally, I will switch back to the Nemesis, starting with conservative numbers for b & t and see if that unlocks the beast.... based on the ~9000RPM, and the old profile (4500-13000), 52% of my 40 boost or 21 degrees would have been applied all the time (or even more with a 2500 RPM start, eek)... no wonder it was so hot... cant wait to try it!

Hopefully this information is helping others find some good settings and get things dialed in...
nice job,this is some really good info
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:13 AM   #13195
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Default Boost or Turbo...

I want to make sure I understand this process:

You can set turbo down to a 0 delay and use turbo to apply initial timing for infield rip and off the corner acceleration and then use the boost to adjust your straight away speed which you can control by adjusting the RPM range.

This seems flip flopped from the way I was used to applying boost and turbo...

Is this correct and if so, I will have to give it a try and report back...

Thanks
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:19 AM   #13196
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Originally Posted by JFuel11 View Post
I want to make sure I understand this process:

You can set turbo down to a 0 delay and use turbo to apply initial timing for infield rip and off the corner acceleration and then use the boost to adjust your straight away speed which you can control by adjusting the RPM range.

This seems flip flopped from the way I was used to applying boost and turbo...

Is this correct and if so, I will have to give it a try and report back...

Thanks
Yes you can do that. You must set the start RPM higher so that the Turbo comes in first.
As you don't go on full throttle, you will have a smoother drive for the technical infield.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:41 AM   #13197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twk-b View Post
managed to test the RPM ranges tonight..
b46, t14, delay0, Orca 17.5, reedy 5000, tekin rs,....

4500-13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg - 146F
7000- 15000 - 9.4 fast, 9.7 20 lag avg - 128F
9000-18000 - 9.8 fast, 10.1 20 lap avg - 115F
11000-20000 - 10.2 fast, 10.4 20 lap avg - 113F

with the 11,000 you could see the boost coming in (or boost+turbo) 15 ft off the corner... 10,000 closer to the corner, 9000 just off corner.... something between to 8500-8750 is probably the right number, but I didnt quickly find something that yielded that as a starting RPM...

dialed end RPM down....
15000 - 9.5 fast, 9.9 20 lap avg, 118F
13000 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 125F
12500 - 9.0 fast, 9.2 20 lap avg, 136F
11500 - 9.1 fast, 9.3 20 lap avg, 149F

I probably got a little quicker as the night went on (our track changes monthly, traction coming up, etc)... and the 9.0 was probably just a cleaner lap then the 9.1.... but I dropped the temp 20F... by finding the sweet spot for the start RPM, and then narrowing the End RPM to get the speed back...

The punch and speed increased in the infield... All runs were made without any setup changes to reduce the variables... with the new setup I'd be quicker with some more rear traction dialed into the car.... next step will be to increase boost to 50/max with end RPM of 15000 and see where that comes in temp wise...

The sling shot part of the acceleration is done just past the half way mark on the straight... adding more boost should extend that... if it starts to cog, originally I was thinking of adding a delay, but I think it would better to reduce turbo and keep 0 delay instead...

13000-9000 / 46 = ~90 RPM/degree timing... will see how that value changes with increased boost... will be related to FDR also, turbo is in there somewhere, but might be helpful...

An interesting note, the car was noticeably quicker on the first 1/2 of the straight, other tekin cars had more top end, but we ended up traveling the straight in the same time with a slinky effect between cars, with me defending going into turn one because of the early jump ahead ... entering turn one at a lower top speed made it easy to keep very tight....

the focus on maximizing early acceleration... and not on the top speed is paying dividends!

Tomorrow we should have some telemetry gear going, so Ill get an idea of where I am for max RPM .... and try adjusting the gearing to put me closer to the 30k mark?

Finally, I will switch back to the Nemesis, starting with conservative numbers for b & t and see if that unlocks the beast.... based on the ~9000RPM, and the old profile (4500-13000), 52% of my 40 boost or 21 degrees would have been applied all the time (or even more with a 2500 RPM start, eek)... no wonder it was so hot... cant wait to try it!

Hopefully this information is helping others find some good settings and get things dialed in...
So in the end what was your best setup overall for starting rpm/ending rpm and settings in between.

Rod
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:04 PM   #13198
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20_Smoke & Tekin: thanks for your help the setting ran really good first time out, the esc ran like a dream, tekin making top 4 here in Scotland's carpet series (not bad considering i just came back last month from a 5 year break from RC and everything is new to me).

One thing tho, i found it was still accelerating at the end of the straight, the turbo came on just after i hit the straight and it was easily the quickest car there. So my thought was it was geared to much for straights, i kept dropping pinnions and getting higher and higher FDR, started at 6.5 fdr ended up at about 7.70 and the thing was still trying to accelerate as i was getting to the braking point. Is it safe running turbo with a really high gear ratio? 8.0-9.0?
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:15 PM   #13199
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20_Smoke & Tekin: thanks for your help the setting ran really good first time out, the esc ran like a dream, tekin making top 4 here in Scotland's carpet series (not bad considering i just came back last month from a 5 year break from RC and everything is new to me).

One thing tho, i found it was still accelerating at the end of the straight, the turbo came on just after i hit the straight and it was easily the quickest car there. So my thought was it was geared to much for straights, i kept dropping pinnions and getting higher and higher FDR, started at 6.5 fdr ended up at about 7.70 and the thing was still trying to accelerate as i was getting to the braking point. Is it safe running turbo with a really high gear ratio? 8.0-9.0?
You can better set the Turbo lower as you find it to accelerate to much.
It is good that the car keeps accelerating till after the end of the straight.
Than you have a good setup.
As it stops accelerating before the end of the straight, than you need indoor to set an other setup.

Gear for the infield and don't look ad the straight. the speed on the straight will be don with the Turbo if needed. As the car keeps accelerating till the end of the straight without the Turbo, than you don't need the Turbo.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:17 PM   #13200
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Originally Posted by JFuel11 View Post
I want to make sure I understand this process:

You can set turbo down to a 0 delay and use turbo to apply initial timing for infield rip and off the corner acceleration and then use the boost to adjust your straight away speed which you can control by adjusting the RPM range.

This seems flip flopped from the way I was used to applying boost and turbo...

Is this correct and if so, I will have to give it a try and report back...

Thanks
For maximum power boost should be used for infield and early straight and turbo is for top end. Swapping the two is more of a "feel" thing and won't get you any more power.
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