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Old 03-08-2010, 05:15 PM   #13111
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Originally Posted by Akudou View Post
Yes, speedo reset to default on hotwire, And i setup again and recalibrate..
Is this happening on a 1s setup or is it 2s?
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:21 PM   #13112
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Originally Posted by Swen View Post
Is this happening on a 1s setup or is it 2s?
2s setup
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:38 PM   #13113
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Originally Posted by twk-b View Post
Thanks for the great information...

What you are really spelling out here is the you can either run a two or three speed setup with the Tekin... (both being a huge benefit over traditional 1 speed esc)....

2 speed - setup boost to come in lower then min corner speed (2500-6000RPM start) so its always engaged with a very linear curve.... turbo comes in WOT (0 delay) as the second gear in the car...

3 speed - gearing/motor timing off corner, hit second with boost 8000-12000, hit third with long delay on turbo (0.5-1.5seconds).... 2 big bursts of speed... tuning them to smooth out infleld drivability by stretching END rpm, reducing ramp...

As you suggest, you have to get most/all of the boost timing into the motor for turbo to have a real turbo effect... ie before 1/2 way on the straight...

A 2 speed setup that is easy to drive with the linear boost.... the 3 speed setup is faster in a straight line, and has more punch off corner, but takes a lot longer to get it tuned to be easily drivable, and you have to be ready for a handful...

An untuned 3 speed throws you off the straight into a wall and gives unexpected bursts of punch at just the wrong time though the infield... read total nightmare to drive... tuned right you will have crazy torque though the infield, great speed the longest infield stretchs, and make up ~5 car lengths on a 2 speed setup, and ~12-15 car lengths on a traditional ESC...

With the max straight speed setup, the top speed varies greatly because of slip off corner, getting squirelly with boost and turbo, and differences in when you go WOT..... I found any time I was making on the straight with hyper speed I was loosing between turn 1 and turn 2 trying to gather up the car... This might be ok in practice, but in races this is where a lot of the passing happens... and the squirrly car will be on the outside ....

----
Someone had commented on my setups using Orca and Nemesis 17.5, and wondered how my gearing was similar... the Orca is running fixed timing (12.5' i believe), the Nemesis I am running -5 timing (ie -17 from stock position)... which is roughly equal to 3-4 pinion teeth...

The nemesis seems to be a screamer with older ESC (LRP Sphere etc), but I have not been that impressed with it when powered by tekin... It really hates low RPM timing.. and it has been a real fight to keep the thing from cooking itself when it does go fast with the Tekin....

With this new information, I am guessing I that I had more timing then I thought coming off the corners... I had been assuming the low RPM in the corner being in the 3500-4500 RPM range (based on 5km/hr car speed and doing the math)... and have been playing with < 6000 RPM for a start.... I think once I bump the start RPM to 8000-9000RPM the temperature variance in will decrease (and tend towards the low side). If that is the case, this information will have unlocked my Nemesis's daemon.... but bumping the start RPM over the min infield RPM and having 0 timing (max torque) should reduce temperatures and provide more punch with all motors...

A telemetry system might be the next must have item.... If you could just bang off some quick laps and pick out the min/max infield speed and straight speed... then setup the start RPM to (min + (max-min)/2) and end to (straight - (straight - max)/2)... and you should be right in the ball park just playing with boost/turbo/delay values...

-b
Don't underestimate how fast a car is traveling through the corners.
On the following track;

The slowest corners are the 180deg at the end of the sweeper to the left, and the 180 right in the middle of the photo, even there the 13.5's are doing 14mph.

With my gearing at 6.38 (10.5) even through the slowest corner my motor is at 12,000rpm.

I raised my rpm settings from 5600/14000, to 8500/20,000, meaning my timing is from 10mph to 24mph, we were topping out around 43mph on the straight and even getting as high as 40 in some of the infield.

Running this layout;

Every change of around 1.0 in the FDR equates to around 1400 change in rpm.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:09 PM   #13114
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skid,did you use a data logger
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:20 PM   #13115
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And what motor? Was it the same as twk-b?

BL motors are vastly different these days. Using the data logging equipment is only half of the equation. Knowing what the motor needs/wants is the other half. Unfortunately this is up to the motor manufacturers to tell us. With so many motors with very different timing settings that don't transfer directly from one motor to the next, ESC setups are wildly different too. Manufacturers would help greatly to give some dyno sheets with their motors even if not completely accurate. At least some generic dyno sheet for each motor class they sell and it would be better than leaving it up to us to guess.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:43 PM   #13116
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Hey fellow racers... ( I have used search and dont get alot of results)

I am running my sedan at the Tamiya USA track. I dont usually run 17.5. I have a good setup for my 13.5 but need help.

The track is about 120 ft x 70 ft.
Its outdoor asphalt, med / high grip
I have a choice to run a Ballistic or x12 for TCS. ( I own the ballistic)

What should be a good setup ? Need a gearing recommendation as well ?
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:55 PM   #13117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Don't underestimate how fast a car is traveling through the corners.
On the following track;

The slowest corners are the 180deg at the end of the sweeper to the left, and the 180 right in the middle of the photo, even there the 13.5's are doing 14mph.

With my gearing at 6.38 (10.5) even through the slowest corner my motor is at 12,000rpm.

I raised my rpm settings from 5600/14000, to 8500/20,000, meaning my timing is from 10mph to 24mph, we were topping out around 43mph on the straight and even getting as high as 40 in some of the infield.

Running this layout;

Every change of around 1.0 in the FDR equates to around 1400 change in rpm.
Sick looking track! Great information! More numbers and data to crunch instead of wasting precious track time.... and confirmation I am headed in the right direction....

Cant wait to try sliding the scale as you did...

I am running right in around 6.0 FDR so after doing a baseline at my current (48XX) I will try at 7XXX, 9XXX, 11XXX and 13XXX (keeping the MAX-MIN range the same)...

12,000 RPM converted by FDR will be around 11250, so the 13000 setting I should see lag coming off the corner... and our track is a fair margin smaller

I am guessing that with each step the punch will increase, and temps will trend toward 110 (or lower even? *gasp*)... I should then be able to compress the range (lower the end RPM), and hopefully see Consistant temps...

the "simple" reasoning says that my end RPM should be similar to what it is now, because I have that much timing applied already by that RPM.... but from my exp with turbo and ramp, how quickly the timing comes in seems to multiple the heat....

I cant even imagine how fast the car will be going if I can get over the temp variance issue, never mind having even close to 40F temp to play with...wow... My driving will need some work

next question is, what is the telemetry system of choice?

-b
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:56 PM   #13118
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
And what motor? Was it the same as twk-b?

BL motors are vastly different these days. Using the data logging equipment is only half of the equation. Knowing what the motor needs/wants is the other half. Unfortunately this is up to the motor manufacturers to tell us. With so many motors with very different timing settings that don't transfer directly from one motor to the next, ESC setups are wildly different too. Manufacturers would help greatly to give some dyno sheets with their motors even if not completely accurate. At least some generic dyno sheet for each motor class they sell and it would be better than leaving it up to us to guess.
I haven't used data logging, or a dyno. My car is super fast. Just try diffrent timing profiles, gearings, etc. Use the track as your dyno(works great at my test track since the AMB setup is usually set up to call out lap times for practice) . I am sure I could fine tune a bit with data logging but its by no means required. One of the reasons I don't believe in RC dyno's anymore is one of my team mates has the EXACT same motor, battery speedo setup. And my motor has better performance with a taller gearing. and his is better with a shorter gear. Magnet strength? actual motor timing? who knows, but just tune it with what you have. Buy pinions... lol Cause all the extra numbers will likely do is confuse people or maybe have you heading in the wrong direction based on dyno data.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:22 PM   #13119
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I haven't used data logging, or a dyno. My car is super fast. Just try diffrent timing profiles, gearings, etc. Use the track as your dyno(works great at my test track since the AMB setup is usually set up to call out lap times for practice) . I am sure I could fine tune a bit with data logging but its by no means required. One of the reasons I don't believe in RC dyno's anymore is one of my team mates has the EXACT same motor, battery speedo setup. And my motor has better performance with a taller gearing. and his is better with a shorter gear. Magnet strength? actual motor timing? who knows, but just tune it with what you have. Buy pinions... lol Cause all the extra numbers will likely do is confuse people or maybe have you heading in the wrong direction based on dyno data.

Don't understand your explanation as to why you don't "believe" in dyno data anymore.

If you and your friend would have dyno sheets, he would not be slower.

That is exactly why I argue dyno sheets would help. This would put everyone on the right track straight away instead of hunting around. You have a little bit of luck that you have time to practice and a friend running the same BL system so you can compare.

In that respect your advice to use the track as a dyno is null for me. I am not allowed this time, nor do I have anyone in my class running the Tekin system.

Time constraints in our contract with the venue hosting our track means we can only have about 5 min of practice if we're lucky (if we all show up in time and set up the track quickly). Sometimes we have to go without. This very limited time doesn't allow for setting up allycat in practice mode either, so we just drive around, temp every now and then and compare speed with other cars running totally different ESC/motors. Sometimes I don't even have a car in the same class as mine around to compare against. Also, given the very limited time for practice we practice all classes at the same time, so it's quite hard to lay down some consistent laps without having to get out of the way of faster cars.

I suspect this is the situation for most people, otherwise we wouldn't see so many calls for help in this thread.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:38 PM   #13120
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Originally Posted by razzor View Post
most likely you had a voltage drop and lost bind.
try using a reciever cap to prevent voltage drops.
Appreciate the responses guys, but I already have a spektrum receiver cap installed. Nevertheless, the receiver went dead (spektrum SR3000)...it didn't unbind as the green light is off and never turns on....put a spare on and everything works. Just wondering what could fry a receiver like that as I obviously would like to avoid a runaway car...Interesting...with all the safeguards we have on the electronics, a simple dead receiver cancels everything...I never realized that...

So....has anyone ever fried a receiver before? If so, anybody konw how this could happen? Could it be speed control related?

Thx
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:49 PM   #13121
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Appreciate the responses guys, but I already have a spektrum receiver cap installed. Nevertheless, the receiver went dead (spektrum SR3000)...it didn't unbind as the green light is off and never turns on....put a spare on and everything works. Just wondering what could fry a receiver like that as I obviously would like to avoid a runaway car...Interesting...with all the safeguards we have on the electronics, a simple dead receiver cancels everything...I never realized that...

So....has anyone ever fried a receiver before? If so, anybody konw how this could happen? Could it be speed control related?

Thx
That receiver of yours is not the best quality there is. Not that it needs to be, but you see, once in a blue moon there is a bad one. I wouldn't suspect anything else until the same problem repeated itself in the same manner.

There's just too many unknowns here for anyone to take a guess. For instance you could have bumped it a bit hard once or twice in its life. This is not always a factor, but if the receiver was "sensible" from new, then perhaps even a small bump could do it. Or maybe something is oxidised/corroded, or there may be too much crap/dirt in, or water, who knows?

As said above, I used these receivers for a while and they're not the best in terms of reliability. They're quite good, but not the best.
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:34 AM   #13122
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.

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Old 03-09-2010, 03:22 AM   #13123
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asphalt or carpet,size of the track
t's a carpet track...and i'm not sure about size....if it's help track is located in Enfield CT - RC MADNESS...
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:08 AM   #13124
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Default Tekin RS Success at the 12th Euros

Congratulations to Keith Robertson for finishing 3rd, and Mick Farrell for his 6th place overall in Spec Class at the 12th Scale European championships at Hinckley in the UK last weekend. Both drivers were using the Tekin RS Pro.

The full championship results are at http://www.ec2010.org/results/index.htm

My photos from the event are at http://www.carsrcracing.co.uk/gallery/v/Euros2010/

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Old 03-09-2010, 04:36 AM   #13125
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Originally Posted by apek View Post
t's a carpet track...and i'm not sure about size....if it's help track is located in Enfield CT - RC MADNESS...
try cuffs just temp it to see where your at
http://www.teamtekin.com/hotwire/ESC...03-17-5-TC.pdf
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