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Old 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #11776
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Thanks I will try your process. Just picked up an RS Pro and an X12 17.5 and plan to do some track testing next week. Maybe Tekin will come up with a process and document it as I'm totally lost with all these settings. But like anything else when you're around it enough you figure it out and get to know it.
Greg - I can help as I have a pretty good handle on it.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:27 PM   #11777
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hey guys what do u reccomendtrying for a very small carpet track in 1.12 im running a nemisis 17.5... every thing would help gearing. motor timing and sopeedo setups
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:20 PM   #11778
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hey guys what do u reccomendtrying for a very small carpet track in 1.12 im running a nemisis 17.5... every thing would help gearing. motor timing and sopeedo setups
What is very small? 40', 60', 80' straight? Also, tight or open layout? These pieces of data will make a big difference.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:13 PM   #11779
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Greg - I can help as I have a pretty good handle on it.
Thanks I'm gonna need it.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:21 PM   #11780
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What is very small? 40', 60', 80' straight? Also, tight or open layout? These pieces of data will make a big difference.
+1K SteveL -

I think it would be helpful for people to include some more track specific data when posting setups. It would be more meaningful to others trying to get a handle on how to setup for their track.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:41 PM   #11781
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So I am really close to buying this ESC but what are the chances of tekin coming out with something different soon after I do?

Also is it true that I wont really need to buy another ESC? Just update the software on it when it comes out?
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:44 PM   #11782
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Thanks I will try your process. Just picked up an RS Pro and an X12 17.5 and plan to do some track testing next week. Maybe Tekin will come up with a process and document it as I'm totally lost with all these settings. But like anything else when you're around it enough you figure it out and get to know it.
I assume you are racing onroad (a bit late to ask).

Team Tekin has suggested this procedure a long time ago, and I think this is as good as it gets short of having dyno data on your motor and telemetry data form your runs. (You can see Krio's post above).

Dyno data would give you the best point on the power curve of your motor. This is equivalent to the black line Krio has drawn int he picture above. That's where you want your motor at all times. Telemetry data would tell you how far away you are (above or below that curve), i.e. the red and green curves in Krio's picture.

OK. We don't have either. The kv rating on your motor gives you some idea of twhere the black curve should be. Ths is a very vague approximation but is the best you have short of dyno and telelmetry. Theoretically then your motor should be able to spin out to whatever the kv rating suggests. If it doesn't, that means it is labouring hard and generating a lot of heat. If it's getting there too early, you will have very good acceleration (possibly spinning wheels under acceleration) but low top speed. Again lots of heat.

High temperatures then can mean you're either too high above the blcak curve or too low. How to decide where you are? Well, you can start with a setup that is clearly wrong but you know which way of wrong it is, so you know exactly which way to go. (either very low or very high). Very high (timing, gearing, etc) is going to generate a lot of heat very quickly. You can burn something up easily. That's why I start way undergeared and with no timing. Check temp, raise gearing until you are happy. Add timing (I prefer no timing on the motor, but if you want any, this is a good time to add it).

Now, there is an addendum to Krio's post.

The black curve is what we are trying to achieve. The problem is that without timing we'll be way below. With motor timing, we may be above at low revs and below at high revs. This is what you are trying to determine in the first stage of adding timing I have described above (after you figure out the gearing). If you're above the curve, you will see your motor overheating and no speed gain. Lower your motor timing. When the motor is not overheating anymore and you have optimal speed down low (the twisty bit of the track) you can move to the next step of adding timing. Start with a low start RPM and a high end RPM. If you're overheating, raise the start RPM. If not, lower the end RPM. Lets say your were overheating. Raise the start RPM until you are not overheating anymore. Now lower end RPM until you start overheating again. Back off a bit when you do. If you add all available boost and are not overheating, add minimal turbo at the slowest ramp. Start with a long delay. If you notice the car levelling off before turbo kicks in, decrease the turbo delay until you see the car accelerating smoothly all the way. (If you don't see the car levelling off, you may see some temperature increase. This means turbo kicks in too early. Increase the delay.) Check again that you're not overheating. If you are, back off the turbo level. If you're not, keep increasing the turbo. If you're still not overheating, increase the turbo ramp. Check temps again. If you've added all the timing you can and the car is not overheating and still have no top speed, revise your gearing. Start over again.

This is the theory (and my technique). As I argued often, dyno sheets and telemetry equipment can cut a lot of the risks and a lot of time of testing. Aslo, there are many things I left out, but I hope you get the idea. One valuable idea was suggested recently by someone adding turbo first and then boost (by playing with the start/end RPM limits for boost). This is a very clever idea, but takes away some of the finesse of playing with the boost ramp. It breaks away from timing's dependence on RPM though. Since we don't know exactly what the actual Turbo ramps are (i.e. how fast say turbo ramp 1 is compared with an RPM-dependent boost setting) it is difficult to ascertain the benefit, but it is clear that some track layouts will favour this idea.

In conclusion, remember Krio's diagram and understand that the three ways of using timing (motor, boost and turbo) are meant to help bring each section of your motor's timing on the black curve: motor timing at low RPM, boost in the middle section and turbo at the top. Practically you have to use the best part of three curves overlapping each other such that the resulting curve is as close as possible to the black one (the ideal curve for a motor).

Hope you're still awake.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:45 PM   #11783
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Originally Posted by C_Money View Post
So I am really close to buying this ESC but what are the chances of tekin coming out with something different soon after I do?

Also is it true that I wont really need to buy another ESC? Just update the software on it when it comes out?

Very low, since you can just update the software. Its hard to improve on the fastest speed control out.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:49 PM   #11784
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So I am really close to buying this ESC but what are the chances of tekin coming out with something different soon after I do?

Also is it true that I wont really need to buy another ESC? Just update the software on it when it comes out?
Currently, Tekin is the most 'future proof' ESC at the moment because of the upgradable firmware + software. Just buy it, it is awesome, you will not regret it.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:50 PM   #11785
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Ok, here's a generic info post I'll probably put on several of the v203/rs threads about my personal findings with timing, heat, punch, and general "why does this happen when".
Attached is a poorly drawn graph of what most people seem to be doing:
The black line is a rough approximation of the line you are trying to keep the timing at for MAX punch for a given motor. After all my testing I have a feeling its somewhat concave down thus have drawn it as such. Lets call it a 17.5 This line does not change based on track size, car, 2wd, 4wd, onroad, or offroad. If all you are looking for is "the most power" then once you find this timing line you have no reason to change anything other than gearing from track to track, turbo delay/ramp (if you use it), or going from 2s to 1s.
Short of personal "feel", this is what everyone is chasing with all the different ways of applying boost, motor timing, and turbo.
The Red line shows the "short boost window with turbo kicking in on the straight" approach that many onroad setups seem to follow while the green line is "boost only with a wide rpm band" that many offroad guys end up using. You can shift either line up or down at will, but I drew them where they are as examples.
Ok, any time your timing exceeds the "optimal" timing you are creating heat while only loosing a touch of power. The biggest thing you will notice with too much timing too early is motor fade and a hot motor, but you will still have mad rip if you aren't too far overdosed on timing. If you feel you have plenty of power, but are coming off hot you are overtimed somewhere in your rpm band. Short of a dyno or sentry with a good excel plot, no one can tell you where you are overtimed short of guess and check.
Anytime your timing is below the optimum timing you are giving up punch, but your motor will run icy cold. Many offroaders are finding this true as they don't need "max power" all the time and the reason randy and everyone else suggest rpm bands from 3k to 18k in order to maintain traction compared to our onroad counterparts looking to take advantage of the available traction. eg. If you ever feel your car is pulling too hard down low, but you still want the same top end rip increase your start rpm to stay further below the optimum timing down low, but you will maintain optimum timing towards the top if you leave the end rpm the same.

I'm not sure any of that made sense, but I'm in a rush atm and wanted to get it up. I'll clean it up later.

I think this makes absolute sense. In my observation, if you added 10* motor timing while running an on-road car with your "green" model, you simply shift the green line up, more closely approximating the black curve. You could also achieve this by raising your SRPM. Next thing you know people are going to be asking for the ability modify the timing ramp's curve,
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:21 AM   #11786
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Currently, Tekin is the most 'future proof' ESC at the moment because of the upgradable firmware + software. Just buy it, it is awesome, you will not regret it.
I know i won't regret it, but i will if after a year they come out with something newer. But if I got a year out of it I would be fine.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:28 AM   #11787
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I know i won't regret it, but i will if after a year they come out with something newer. But if I got a year out of it I would be fine.
Tekin is not like GM, Speedpassion or LRP.
They are working on new software ad the moment for the speedo.
Not to make it faster but to make it easier to change settings and some other extra stuff.

Tekin is ad the moment ahead on hole the field and they will stay that for a wile.
LRP will reach the same level next year ad it's earliest.
Speedpassion just came with a speedo compared to the speed of LRP.
Advanced was nice till January 1st. you can update it but it's a small company and just like GM you need to send it.
GM comes now whit a new speedo and will not support there current speedo's with new software any more. The new one can be updated ad home.

You will be good for at least 1 year with the Tekin and I believe even longer.

As they come with a new speedo, it's with a booster build in.
The rest of the speedo is so advanced that it's still ahead of the competition.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:25 AM   #11788
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Any word yet on the new Software GUI?
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:37 AM   #11789
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Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Thanks I will try your process. Just picked up an RS Pro and an X12 17.5 and plan to do some track testing next week. Maybe Tekin will come up with a process and document it as I'm totally lost with all these settings. But like anything else when you're around it enough you figure it out and get to know it.
Randy posted this about the time 203 came out.
May help the follks new to RS

Quote:
V203 Explained:


Motor Timing: Launch

Motor timing is an absolute. Itís effective throughout the entire range of the cars speed. This is the adjustment that should be made for the first few feet of car travel.


Timing Boost: Acceleration

The ideal start/end rpm for boost will depend on the platform/chassis being used along with track size and motor wind. The size of the range will also affect how the car pulls. A narrow rpm range will effectively produce a faster rate of boost vs. a wide range will have a slower rate of boost:

1000rpm start / 6000 end with 50 timing boost will provide 10 degrees of boost per 1000 rpm vs.
1000rpm start / 11000 end with 50 timing boost will provide 5 degrees of boost per 1000 rpm.

Spec Motors:

So far pan cars are using between 1,000 and 7,000 on most tracks. This is due to not having a gearbox and being direct drive.

TCís are showing a useable range of 2,000 to 13,000 on most tracks. This is due to having a reduction gear box.

Turbo Timing: Top speed

Turbo Delay: This is the time that must expire at wide open throttle to engage turbo. This is NOT dependant on RPMís in any way. Ideally this should be NO lower than .2 and in all likelyhood will be set at .4 or more. Tracks that have straights less than 80ft will likely NOT need turbo.

Turbo Ramp Rate: This is the literal ramp rate of whatever your turbo timing is set. So:

A turbo setting of 20 will give you the following reaction:
1.0 Ramp rate = 20 degrees in 1 second applied
2.0 Ramp rate = 20 degrees in .5 seconds applied
3.0 Ramp rate = 20 degrees in .30 seconds applied
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:10 PM   #11790
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Default Snowbirds 10.5 Tq

Here is what I used to TQ 10.5 1/12th at the Birds.

Push control - 20
Neutral Width- 10
Brake strength- 100
Timing Boost- 43
Turbo Boost- 7
Delay - .1
Start/End - 4000-8500
Ramp- 3.0
Trinity duo-1, Mid timing
32/78, 1.68" tire

Tried uploading setup sheet but file too big. Any questions let me know
Will try to get my Mod setup on here soon too.
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