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Old 01-25-2010, 12:15 PM   #11191
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the short answer is that you are adding timing at the wrong time. if the motor has not spooled up enough for that much timing, then the motor can not handle the timing load that you are asking for. I am not sure why with v203, but that does not generate heat. what I have seen over thousand and thousands of laps with multiple people and their setups is that adding too much timing too low in the motor torque range just makes the motor flat. I have seen setup that will cause 2+ sec a lap drop off or fade. Applying timing at the right time in the correct rpm range and adding an "instant" timing with turbo is not more critical then ever. I find that even .2 of a sec difference in turbo delay can cause motor fade as much as 1 - 1.5sec by the end of an 8 min run. and yet the motor come of cool. maybe it does something to the sensors or maybe it does something to the magnets, but timing effect motor fade and does not necessarily generate heat
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:21 PM   #11192
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
the short answer is that you are adding timing at the wrong time. if the motor has not spooled up enough for that much timing, then the motor can not handle the timing load that you are asking for. I am not sure why with v203, but that does not generate heat. what I have seen over thousand and thousands of laps with multiple people and their setups is that adding too much timing too low in the motor torque range just makes the motor flat. I have seen setup that will cause 2+ sec a lap drop off or fade. Applying timing at the right time in the correct rpm range and adding an "instant" timing with turbo is not more critical then ever. I find that even .2 of a sec difference in turbo delay can cause motor fade as much as 1 - 1.5sec by the end of an 8 min run. and yet the motor come of cool. maybe it does something to the sensors or maybe it does something to the magnets, but timing effect motor fade and does not necessarily generate heat
I wonder if maybe the extra power of a fresh pack allows the motor to pull all that timing and still be fast but as soon as the voltage drops a bit, it just can't handle it any more. Who knows?
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:33 PM   #11193
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i think power delivery to the motor is our limiting factor. when you have a fresh pack you have high voltage and lower current. but as the pack looses voltage, it require more current. at some point the current does not flow as freely to the motor.

but that is just a guess. I really have not sat down and looked at it. I have just been avoiding ill concieved setup. a really well setup speedo should loose less then .5sec by the end of an 8min. even with the added power we are sucking out of the batts.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:36 PM   #11194
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
the short answer is that you are adding timing at the wrong time. if the motor has not spooled up enough for that much timing, then the motor can not handle the timing load that you are asking for. I am not sure why with v203, but that does not generate heat. what I have seen over thousand and thousands of laps with multiple people and their setups is that adding too much timing too low in the motor torque range just makes the motor flat. I have seen setup that will cause 2+ sec a lap drop off or fade. Applying timing at the right time in the correct rpm range and adding an "instant" timing with turbo is not more critical then ever. I find that even .2 of a sec difference in turbo delay can cause motor fade as much as 1 - 1.5sec by the end of an 8 min run. and yet the motor come of cool. maybe it does something to the sensors or maybe it does something to the magnets, but timing effect motor fade and does not necessarily generate heat
+1 This is right on the money and can be easily reproduced over timing a motor. I've been playing more conservative with settings while trying to maintain good infield rip and straightaway speed. When I start to see more than .4 sec's of fade start to finish with a 13.5 or 17.5 in 8 minutes, I know there is something off somewhere. It's really amazing how track size and layout play into it as well.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:50 PM   #11195
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you are soo right about layout. I was working with a racer this weekend on a 17.5 stock car over the phone. he started with my setup and said it was just a little slow coming out of the corner. so I asked him about the layout and how slow the car gets in the infield. that is were we found that the rpm range had to be lowered almost 1000rpm. once we did that and also adjusted the turbo delay, we got him an extra .3 sec in the main. i am not sure before 203 that I could have found .3 sec a lap
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:04 PM   #11196
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Originally Posted by cmenard View Post
It's really amazing how track size and layout play into it as well.

and driving style
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:38 PM   #11197
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For all intensive purposes it's 12. We don't discuss the "early read" that we used to anymore.

Barry's 13.5 setup works killer on our Redline motor.

So the setup sheet I found on your site from Barry is for a Checkpoint 13.5.. That one works well for a 17.5 Redline?
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:22 PM   #11198
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So for Barrys setup with the Redline 13.5 would you use the 22deg motor timing as well as all the esc timing?
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:39 PM   #11199
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:43 PM   #11200
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
you are soo right about layout. I was working with a racer this weekend on a 17.5 stock car over the phone. he started with my setup and said it was just a little slow coming out of the corner. so I asked him about the layout and how slow the car gets in the infield. that is were we found that the rpm range had to be lowered almost 1000rpm. once we did that and also adjusted the turbo delay, we got him an extra .3 sec in the main. i am not sure before 203 that I could have found .3 sec a lap
thats what i was doing this weekend was playing with the rpm range.geared down and got faster all day
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:46 PM   #11201
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So for Barrys setup with the Redline 13.5 would you use the 22deg motor timing as well as all the esc timing?
No, on a redline run it at 12.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:39 PM   #11202
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Here is the setup I used at norcal hobbies yesterday. It was really fast but yet the car was still easy to drive.

Tekin Rs 17.5 with 203.pdf
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:52 PM   #11203
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Here is the setup I used at norcal hobbies yesterday. It was really fast but yet the car was still easy to drive.

Attachment 546330
Derek,

Any WGT setup info to share?

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Old 01-25-2010, 07:14 PM   #11204
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Here is the setup I used at norcal hobbies yesterday. It was really fast but yet the car was still easy to drive.

Attachment 546330
what size is the track
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #11205
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Here is the setup I used at norcal hobbies yesterday. It was really fast but yet the car was still easy to drive.

Attachment 546330

What was the RPM range? it is not listed.
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