R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-15-2010, 01:24 PM   #10651
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Helmond
Posts: 1,544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krio View Post
Yes, you can emulate v200 that way. You might need to go even lower with the rpm settings though as v200 dropped boost in very quickly.
Yes but I don't see why to do that.
As you set a basic setup with RPM that's wider from each other and you race the Boost and set the Turbo on 0. You will go a lot faster than before.

Just try it, you will be very happy.
__________________
http://www.mikky32.com
Tekin RS pro
TOP racing Photon
Tekin Redline 10,5
Protoform LTC-R
mikky32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:07 PM   #10652
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Has anyone tried reversing the order of turbo boost and timing boost? I assume if you set turbo boost delay to 0.0 and your start RPM higher then you could basically reverse the two. Just curious what that does or if that would even work.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:42 PM   #10653
Tech Champion
 
Krio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
Posts: 5,103
Trader Rating: 150 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikky32 View Post
Yes but I don't see why to do that.
As you set a basic setup with RPM that's wider from each other and you race the Boost and set the Turbo on 0. You will go a lot faster than before.

Just try it, you will be very happy.
All he asked was if it would work so that he has something to fall back on without constantly switching from 203 and 200 and recalibrating every time he wanted to switch. Of course, once you get 203 dialed in 200 can't touch it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Has anyone tried reversing the order of turbo boost and timing boost? I assume if you set turbo boost delay to 0.0 and your start RPM higher then you could basically reverse the two. Just curious what that does or if that would even work.
You can, but the problem is that in the infield you would never really pull full throttle long enough and your timing would be way to low the whole time.
__________________
www.kriostasis.com
Krio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:44 PM   #10654
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,052
Trader Rating: 16 (94%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Has anyone tried reversing the order of turbo boost and timing boost? I assume if you set turbo boost delay to 0.0 and your start RPM higher then you could basically reverse the two. Just curious what that does or if that would even work.
I would have to say No from my recent bench testing while hooked up and logging with the Novak Sentry.

What I found is that the timing boost does not seem to do anything below 30-deg of timing. I check the max rpm with the Sentry at 0, 10, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, and 45 deg of timing, and not until I reach 30-deg did I see an rpm increase, and only by 500rpm's on a 13.5 Duo2 1S, and 2500rpm's on a 13.5 Ballistic 2S.

When I added Turbo timing to both setup's, the rpm's increased drastically, and varied depending on base timing, boost timing, and turbo timing.
kn7671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:47 PM   #10655
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
I would have to say No from my recent bench testing while hooked up and logging with the Novak Sentry.

What I found is that the timing boost does not seem to do anything below 30-deg of timing. I check the max rpm with the Sentry at 0, 10, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, and 45 deg of timing, and not until I reach 30-deg did I see an rpm increase, and only by 500rpm's on a 13.5 Duo2 1S, and 2500rpm's on a 13.5 Ballistic 2S.

When I added Turbo timing to both setup's, the rpm's increased drastically, and varied depending on base timing, boost timing, and turbo timing.
I ordered a Sentry to do some similar testing. Hoping it really helps me dial in the optimal settings for my motor/track combo.

I had forgotten turbo only works at full throttle.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:02 PM   #10656
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Helmond
Posts: 1,544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krio View Post
All he asked was if it would work so that he has something to fall back on without constantly switching from 203 and 200 and recalibrating every time he wanted to switch. Of course, once you get 203 dialed in 200 can't touch it.
Ok that way.

Can't wait till tomorrow. Want to race.
My LRP wasn't running smooth so rebuild it and now it's smooth again.
Even more power
__________________
http://www.mikky32.com
Tekin RS pro
TOP racing Photon
Tekin Redline 10,5
Protoform LTC-R
mikky32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:17 PM   #10657
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBrown View Post
The inexpensive DuraTrax FlashPoint (DTXP3100) temp gauge works fine as long as you place it close enough to thing whose temp you are measuring (it has a broad field of view).

Black tape will act as an insulator so it might artificially lower your temp readings.

A small patch of black Sharpie ink works well. This technique is described in the RS / HotWire doc at http://rcfaq.weebly.com/tekin-rs--hotwire.html .
The problem with temp guns in general is most do not use them properly. What will be more accurate, a $30 unit or $250. Most of the time if you stick with an industrial quality unit they will be more accurate. Tif, Fluke, Raytec make a very good unit but you will pay more for it.

Anything silver or any where reflective will screw the results. This is emissivity. There is also a distance required for IR temp guns to operate correctly. Remember you are measuring light waves with an IR temp gun.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 03:22 PM   #10658
Tech Elite
 
oeoeo327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,658
Trader Rating: 74 (100%+)
Default

...
__________________
Founding member of the Solid Gold Racing Team - Mediocrity, redefined...

Last edited by oeoeo327; 01-15-2010 at 03:24 PM. Reason: question was already answered...
oeoeo327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:35 PM   #10659
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
I was told that one cannot/should not take temp readings off of any metallic surfaces (Novak SS Pro, for example) as this will most definitely give you improper readings.

I was also recommended to put black electrical tape on the can and to take the readings from there....is this what most people are doing? I noticed a BIG difference between the temp readings on the tape when compared to other portions of the can....
Regards,
MH
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBrown View Post
The inexpensive DuraTrax FlashPoint (DTXP3100) temp gauge works fine as long as you place it close enough to thing whose temp you are measuring (it has a broad field of view).

Black tape will act as an insulator so it might artificially lower your temp readings.

A small patch of black Sharpie ink works well. This technique is described in the RS / HotWire doc at http://rcfaq.weebly.com/tekin-rs--hotwire.html .
Reflective surfaces will cause problems with readings, so I stuck a small piece of duct tape near the endbell.

I found that the temps on the tape are higher than anywhere else.

If you can find an area on the motor that is hotter, then use that!

As for accuracy of temp guns, of course the more expensive guns will be better, but we are only talking a few percent. We are measuring the temp in toy motors, not something important.

Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 08:40 PM   #10660
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Reflective surfaces will cause problems with readings, so I stuck a small piece of duct tape near the endbell.

I found that the temps on the tape are higher than anywhere else.

If you can find an area on the motor that is hotter, then use that!

As for accuracy of temp guns, of course the more expensive guns will be better, but we are only talking a few percent. We are measuring the temp in toy motors, not something important.

Skiddins
So gray duct tape is better than black electrical tape?
Thx.
mhavlena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #10661
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Great Falls, MT
Posts: 190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
I would have to say No from my recent bench testing while hooked up and logging with the Novak Sentry.

What I found is that the timing boost does not seem to do anything below 30-deg of timing. I check the max rpm with the Sentry at 0, 10, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, and 45 deg of timing, and not until I reach 30-deg did I see an rpm increase, and only by 500rpm's on a 13.5 Duo2 1S, and 2500rpm's on a 13.5 Ballistic 2S.

When I added Turbo timing to both setup's, the rpm's increased drastically, and varied depending on base timing, boost timing, and turbo timing.
I'm sure that your findings give you some relationship to the point where Timing advance starts to pick up. Several of the Tekin guys have talked about 40 being the spot where a setup should start as that is where advance starts to produce. Then work your way up to the 50 range and beyond.

There is one fundamental problem with the process of "bench testing". That is there is no load on the motor. You can easily "bench test" a setting that applies way to much timing at to quick of an advance rate. It sounds impressive on the "bench test", but under load on the track it may be severly bogged down and overheat the motor quickly. There was a guy on here about 100 posts back that was doing this and was shocked to get a temp back of well north of 200*. "Track Testing" is way more valuable than "Bench Testing"
__________________
Dude, Go RRReally FFFast - When something gets in your way - Turrrnn
VRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:15 PM   #10662
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRacing View Post
I'm sure that your findings give you some relationship to the point where Timing advance starts to pick up. Several of the Tekin guys have talked about 40 being the spot where a setup should start as that is where advance starts to produce. Then work your way up to the 50 range and beyond.

There is one fundamental problem with the process of "bench testing". That is there is no load on the motor. You can easily "bench test" a setting that applies way to much timing at to quick of an advance rate. It sounds impressive on the "bench test", but under load on the track it may be severly bogged down and overheat the motor quickly. There was a guy on here about 100 posts back that was doing this and was shocked to get a temp back of well north of 200*. "Track Testing" is way more valuable than "Bench Testing"

So it's seems that the sweet spot for timing boost is between 40 and 50. What would happen should the car (TC) be overgeared (without knowing), is this just a case of poor acceleration, or mostly a potential overtemp situation?

I find it challenging trying to find the appropriate gearing. Currently I my timing boost is at 20, turbo 20, but my FDR = 4.0 (TC 2S, 17.5, track 75X40). Temps are good, acceleration seems good, but I am apprehensive to inbcrease the timing boost to 40 or 50.

Any suggestions for testing? Change gearing prior to testing high timing boost, or test with existing gearing (high timing boost) and check motor temp often?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
MH
mhavlena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:30 PM   #10663
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
So it's seems that the sweet spot for timing boost is between 40 and 50. What would happen should the car (TC) be overgeared (without knowing), is this just a case of poor acceleration, or mostly a potential overtemp situation?

I find it challenging trying to find the appropriate gearing. Currently I my timing boost is at 20, turbo 20, but my FDR = 4.0 (TC 2S, 17.5, track 75X40). Temps are good, acceleration seems good, but I am apprehensive to inbcrease the timing boost to 40 or 50.

Any suggestions for testing? Change gearing prior to testing high timing boost, or test with existing gearing (high timing boost) and check motor temp often?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
MH
On the safer side, its best to re-gear, and then add timing/turbo, and temperature.

For my car, I have used 6 teeth (48pitch) less on the pinion with the added boost & turbo while maintaining the same temp. (2S TC, 11.5)
hardmankam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:46 PM   #10664
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
So gray duct tape is better than black electrical tape?
Thx.
No flat black surfaces will result in more accurate readings. If you read any quality temp gun manual it will point this out.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:51 PM   #10665
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
No flat black surfaces will result in more accurate readings. If you read any quality temp gun manual it will point this out.
Understood...what about Mark Brown's recommendation to mark up your motor with a sharpie pen (black marker)?...I would assuem that you disagree with this?

Thx
mhavlena is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tekin Redline RS Sensored ESC and motors, opinions for offroad? Cain Electric Off-Road 4230 06-07-2015 04:38 PM
Sensored vs. Sensorless lemansracer Electric On-Road 71 02-14-2009 03:19 AM
New Tekin Redline Sensored Motors are Roar Legal! Randy_Pike Electric On-Road 3 08-05-2008 02:08 AM
Tekin Redline Sensored 10.5 HUCKMAN Electric On-Road 6 07-15-2008 08:50 PM
sensored vs sensorless bprocket Rookie Zone 5 05-16-2008 09:38 AM


Tags
v203, vegas 2.0


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:32 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net