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Old 01-14-2010, 08:42 PM   #10636
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Originally Posted by franc furter View Post
can someone tell me what the difference between throttle profile 1 thru 5 is. waiting for my hotwire, had a friend set mine to 5 like his but would like to know for myself. thanks!
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Throttle profile 5 is the most agressive throttle profile and 4, 3, 2,1 are each a little softer throttle rip wise. Depends on your driving style
Just to add to what he said, it's basically just like exponential if you are familiar with that.

1 and 2 are like having negative exp on your radio's throttle.

3 is linear, no exp.

4 and 5 are like having positive exp on your radio.

I stick with 3. I like linear.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:57 PM   #10637
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Since not all of us has a laptop on track side, its very difficult to test out the difference b/w turbo vs no turbo on a single run. I have figured a way turn on and off turbo without hotwire.

Here is how I do it.

When calibrate your throttle forward with the RS, set your hi-pot to 98.

When finished calibrating, set your hi-pot back to 100 for normal operations.

Now if you want to 'turn off' turbo while you are on the driver's stand, reduce your hi-pot to 95. If everything goes well, the esc will not see 'WOT' or 100% throttle, hence will not turn on turbo.

of course, if you have a good throttle finger, you dont need to so this.

I have tried this at the bench and it works. I will test it out next time I go to the track.

Some of you may ask me why dont you want to turn on turbo?
My reason is that my friend's gtb cannot catch up with me... so to be more fair, i will turn off turbo to give him a chance.

Last edited by hardmankam; 01-14-2010 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:57 PM   #10638
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Excellent stuff guys.

Thanks to Kelly for the PM and previous posts.

Bill
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:03 PM   #10639
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Originally Posted by rnd_tang View Post
Hi everyone,

I just recently moved into 21.5 from the standard 540 silver can.

Was just hoping for some guidance in getting my RS Pro software setup.

I m running a TRF416 with 69 Spur, 30 Pinion, and 21.5 Redline.

Have been running v200 for a while now but boost is on 8. I have no idea where to start. I just dont want to burn anything out so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
OK. Since you're a newbie to the Tekin system, I recommend first and foremost to get a good temp gauge and read the temps off the motor when you test your setup. Every few laps, pull in, check temp. Stop immediately if you go over say 80 deg Celsius. This is a bit conservative, but it will guarantee you don't burn anything.

Tuning.

Start with no turbo, no motor timing.

Decide now if you want drag brakes or not. Please keep in mind, drag brakes can significantly raise the temperature of your motor. That means you are trading off some of the temp range you can use to push the motor under acceleration. Remember as well that brakes overheat things quicker than acceleration as the effort is way higher (higher amps). I for instance never used any drag brakes. Set the drag brakes now to whatever you want and leave alone for the rest of the tuning procedure.

Next

Find the best gearing with the boost at 30% (or anywhere under 50%). Once that is found, turn the boost up all the way.

Decide now if you want to use any motor timing. Turn down boost by an equivalent amount and test again. Start cranking up boost progressively if you're happy with infield acceleration until you find temperatures are rising and stop at a point where you feel comfortable with both acceleration and temps.

Good. Now for the turbo.

Watch your car and try to guess or measure as accurately as possible when the car runs out of puff on the straight (how long it takes from when you are full on the throttle until the car reaches top speed on the straight). That is your turbo delay. You can add the turbo progressively in or just go straight to 100% turbo but be careful with temps. Test to make sure the turbo doesn't kick in in the infield. If it does kick in at some inappropiate time increse the delay a notch and keep increasing it if you want it not to come in before the straight. This will take away some of the top end speed on the straight, but you may actually bring your laptimes down by avoiding an unwanted acceleration kick in the infield (and subsequent rising temperatures).

Ideally you should see the car accelerating smoothly all the way through the straight when you're done. If the car looks like it's shifting gears, the turbo delay is a bit too long, but you have to consider again if you can bring it back down or not (see the infield problem). I found I didn't have this problem, but it can happen if you have a somewhat longer straight somewhere in the infield. Increasing boost or motor timing might help.

Take one last test run for a whole race duration, but measure temps every three laps or so. If temps are good at the end of the five or seven minutes race, you're done. If the temps are low, you can increase motor timing or boost a little bit further. Keep checking temps while you do.

Review the drag brake setting. Check temps again if increasing drag brakes.

Run a full race and temp again.

Keep an eye all the time on temps. For me this is now part of race routine. I temp the motor after each and every race without fail. It's just cheap insurance. Remember any transmission fault is increasing the load on the motor and this can burn it out. Be on top of your game with maintenance of the car to avoid this.

Done.
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Last edited by niznai; 01-14-2010 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:26 PM   #10640
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Originally Posted by mikky32 View Post
As you set the end RPM to high, you probably never reach the top speed that you reach that it can do with a lower RPM range.
Let me qualify this.
The highest rpm (the top speed) is independent from where you add the timing until the end rpm is lower then the highest rpm. The highest rpm depends on the timing only. I measured this.
So, you can set your rpm range wide or narrow, can start at a low rpm and end at a high rpm, your highest rpm will be the same if you do not change the timing. You change the timing then your highest rpm (top speed) will change.
Actually, there is very small (almost no change) of highest rpm between 0 and 30 timing. Between 30 and 40 there is a small change and from 40 it starts increasing and from 50 it increases very heavily. It seems that the timing - highest rpm relationship is a sort of exponential curve. This is with no load on motor.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:46 PM   #10641
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Thank you very much niznai, that was most helpful. Now onto the fun part
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:01 AM   #10642
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Default Tekin brushless motor?

Is the timing adjustable?
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:36 AM   #10643
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Is the timing adjustable?
yes 0-24 deg
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:57 AM   #10644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
OK. Since you're a newbie to the Tekin system, I recommend first and foremost to get a good temp gauge and read the temps off the motor when you test your setup. Every few laps, pull in, check temp. Stop immediately if you go over say 80 deg Celsius. This is a bit conservative, but it will guarantee you don't burn anything.

Tuning.

Start with no turbo, no motor timing.

Decide now if you want drag brakes or not. Please keep in mind, drag brakes can significantly raise the temperature of your motor. That means you are trading off some of the temp range you can use to push the motor under acceleration. Remember as well that brakes overheat things quicker than acceleration as the effort is way higher (higher amps). I for instance never used any drag brakes. Set the drag brakes now to whatever you want and leave alone for the rest of the tuning procedure.

Next

Find the best gearing with the boost at 30% (or anywhere under 50%). Once that is found, turn the boost up all the way.

Decide now if you want to use any motor timing. Turn down boost by an equivalent amount and test again. Start cranking up boost progressively if you're happy with infield acceleration until you find temperatures are rising and stop at a point where you feel comfortable with both acceleration and temps.

Good. Now for the turbo.

Watch your car and try to guess or measure as accurately as possible when the car runs out of puff on the straight (how long it takes from when you are full on the throttle until the car reaches top speed on the straight). That is your turbo delay. You can add the turbo progressively in or just go straight to 100% turbo but be careful with temps. Test to make sure the turbo doesn't kick in in the infield. If it does kick in at some inappropiate time increse the delay a notch and keep increasing it if you want it not to come in before the straight. This will take away some of the top end speed on the straight, but you may actually bring your laptimes down by avoiding an unwanted acceleration kick in the infield (and subsequent rising temperatures).

Ideally you should see the car accelerating smoothly all the way through the straight when you're done. If the car looks like it's shifting gears, the turbo delay is a bit too long, but you have to consider again if you can bring it back down or not (see the infield problem). I found I didn't have this problem, but it can happen if you have a somewhat longer straight somewhere in the infield. Increasing boost or motor timing might help.

Take one last test run for a whole race duration, but measure temps every three laps or so. If temps are good at the end of the five or seven minutes race, you're done. If the temps are low, you can increase motor timing or boost a little bit further. Keep checking temps while you do.

Review the drag brake setting. Check temps again if increasing drag brakes.

Run a full race and temp again.

Keep an eye all the time on temps. For me this is now part of race routine. I temp the motor after each and every race without fail. It's just cheap insurance. Remember any transmission fault is increasing the load on the motor and this can burn it out. Be on top of your game with maintenance of the car to avoid this.

Done.
Speaking of using a "good" temp gun...can anyone recommend which one is considered "good" and which ones are considered "bad"?

also, can anyone recommend "how" to take proper temp readings off your motor?

I was told that one cannot/should not take temp readings off of any metallic surfaces (Novak SS Pro, for example) as this will most definitely give you improper readings.

I was also recommended to put black electrical tape on the can and to take the readings from there....is this what most people are doing? I noticed a BIG difference between the temp readings on the tape when compared to other portions of the can....

We all want to setup our speedos appropriately and taking motor temp often is vital towards finding that sweet spot, but if we are not taking readings properly, then we are increasing our chances of burning up equipment.

Looking forward to everyone's response.

Regards,
MH
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:04 AM   #10645
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Randy,

Is timing boost 25 in Vegas 200 = timing boost 25 in Vegas 203?
If so, can I "downgrade" from 203 to 200 by simply inputing 4000 start rpm and 5400 end rpm? Or is there any other difference?
The reason for asking is that I have a good Vegas 200 setup for a track which can be a great start point for Vegas 203 if the above are true.

thanks,

Zoltan
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:08 AM   #10646
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Randy,

Is timing boost 25 in Vegas 200 = timing boost 25 in Vegas 203?
If so, can I "downgrade" from 203 to 200 by simply inputing 4000 start rpm and 5400 end rpm? Or is there any other difference?
The reason for asking is that I have a good Vegas 200 setup for a track which can be a great start point for Vegas 203 if the above are true.

thanks,

Zoltan
Yes the amount of timing is the same. The only difference is, is that you can set a higher Boost because you can set a longer time were the Boost comes in. It doesn't come in at once.

With the V203 You will go faster as with the v200 but you must set the Boost higher.
Also the RPM range wider than you have there.

Set the RPM range as randy told as a start ad work from there with a Boost of 40.
Turbo 0 and play with your gearing and if needed higher the Boost.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:15 AM   #10647
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Thanks, Mikky32.
I understand all these. My question is if I can reproduce the 200 setting in 203 if I set everything the same and use the 4k-5,4k rpm range (as Randy told us some time ago this was the 200 rpm range)?
For me the setup of 200 IS the good starting point. So I need a simple yes/no answer on the questions I asked:
"Is timing boost 25 in Vegas 200 = timing boost 25 in Vegas 203?
If so, can I "downgrade" from 203 to 200 by simply inputing 4000 start rpm and 5400 end rpm?"
cheers
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:18 AM   #10648
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the start and end rpm that close will give you problems
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:27 AM   #10649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena View Post
Speaking of using a "good" temp gun...can anyone recommend which one is considered "good" and which ones are considered "bad"?

also, can anyone recommend "how" to take proper temp readings off your motor?

I was told that one cannot/should not take temp readings off of any metallic surfaces (Novak SS Pro, for example) as this will most definitely give you improper readings.

I was also recommended to put black electrical tape on the can and to take the readings from there....is this what most people are doing? I noticed a BIG difference between the temp readings on the tape when compared to other portions of the can....
The inexpensive DuraTrax FlashPoint (DTXP3100) temp gauge works fine as long as you place it close enough to thing whose temp you are measuring (it has a broad field of view).

Black tape will act as an insulator so it might artificially lower your temp readings.

A small patch of black Sharpie ink works well. This technique is described in the RS / HotWire doc at http://rcfaq.weebly.com/tekin-rs--hotwire.html .
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:05 PM   #10650
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Originally Posted by oze View Post
Thanks, Mikky32.
I understand all these. My question is if I can reproduce the 200 setting in 203 if I set everything the same and use the 4k-5,4k rpm range (as Randy told us some time ago this was the 200 rpm range)?
For me the setup of 200 IS the good starting point. So I need a simple yes/no answer on the questions I asked:
"Is timing boost 25 in Vegas 200 = timing boost 25 in Vegas 203?
If so, can I "downgrade" from 203 to 200 by simply inputing 4000 start rpm and 5400 end rpm?"
cheers
Yes, you can emulate v200 that way. You might need to go even lower with the rpm settings though as v200 dropped boost in very quickly.
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