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Old 01-06-2010, 09:42 PM   #10186
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:47 PM   #10187
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Default Setup advice

OK Guys:

Perhaps I can get some advice in order to see whether i'm headed in the right direction or not.

I run TC 17.5 (Novak SS Pro), 2S + foam. Track is 75'X34' keeping in mind that the track is 3/4 oval, so the straight is approx 143'...longish...

When I was running v.200, I was running factory timing on the motor, no timing boost, but MAX turbo at 0.5 sec delay and an FDR of 4.0....since I had been winning all the time, I decided not to play with my setup...motor temp approx 145 degF after a 5 min run.

Now that v.203 is out, I loaded it up, kept similar settings on the ESC (no timing boost and MAX turbo), ran to last weekends race without perforimng any testing. When I noticed that turbo wasn't engaging, I promptly added some timing (20 timing (min and max RPM approx 4000 and 12,500) and MAX turbo) and went to the races...while keeping the same FDR of 4.0.

The results were..................interestingly enough...same lap times...?!..motor was approx at the same temp, maybe a little hotter, say 150 deg F, but then again this was taken at the reflective part of the motor, maybe this is incorrect....it seems when taking the temp on a piece of tape, temps are quite cold...

any way, all this to say that my lap timers have not improved. Based on all the threads here, my setup must be off since everyone else is experiencing gut wrenching speed changes with the latest S/W.

I know that my FDR seems extremely low, but the motor is not getting too hot, so I'm assuming that it is OK...

Should I ramp up the timing boost to 40 like everyone else? kind of scary since my FDR is currently at 4.0.

Thought that some of you might find my experience last weekend to be interesting...any advice on setup would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
MH
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:23 PM   #10188
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Originally Posted by Owen RaCing View Post
SPX got demoted to 2.2 Crawler.

RS Pro for the TC . I can't belive Im actually getting one
When are u gonna come and race with us again?
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:08 PM   #10189
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When are u gonna come and race with us again?
Im not sure. Still trying to get a couple loose ends done on the Mi4 (Like the esc. The back order is a little worse then I first imagined ) and not throw it all togeather like I did my dad's car. Got new piston's in the real car, so thats good to go on the 3 hour trip. I may just throw the SPX in and come up and practice. I wanna go to california pretty soon too. You guys should make a Chico/ Outback raceway trip. Sound's pretty good.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:26 PM   #10190
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Originally Posted by Owen RaCing View Post
Im not sure. Still trying to get a couple loose ends done on the Mi4 (Like the esc. The back order is a little worse then I first imagined ) and not throw it all togeather like I did my dad's car. Got new piston's in the real car, so thats good to go on the 3 hour trip. I may just throw the SPX in and come up and practice. I wanna go to california pretty soon too. You guys should make a Chico/ Outback raceway trip. Sound's pretty good.
Let me know when, maybe we can meet up and carpool down there.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:22 AM   #10191
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i thought barry was working for novak a few months ago
Yes I did work for Novak until late Oct. 2009. Now I am working for O'Donnell/Team Checkpoint in product development. There are absolutely no hard feelings at all between Novak and myself. An opportunity came up for me to do what I love to do and they completely understood.

I was lucky enough that Jim and Randy have sent me some product to test not only in 1/8th but also 1/10th. I feel that if I can help them out in any way with the development it will not only help myself but will be passed on to all the Tekin customers.

See you at the track,

Barry
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:41 AM   #10192
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In the title
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhavlena;
OK Guys:

Perhaps I can get some advice in order to see whether i'm headed in the right direction or not.

I run TC 17.5 (Novak SS Pro), 2S + foam. Track is 75'X34' keeping in mind that the track is 3/4 oval, so the straight is approx 143'...longish...

When I was running v.200, I was running factory timing on the motor, no timing boost, but MAX turbo at 0.5 sec delay and an FDR of 4.0....since I had been winning all the time, I decided not to play with my setup...motor temp approx 145 degF after a 5 min run.

Now that v.203 is out, I loaded it up, kept similar settings on the ESC (no timing boost and MAX turbo), ran to last weekends race without perforimng any testing. When I noticed that turbo wasn't engaging, I promptly added some timing (20 timing (min and max RPM approx 4000 and 12,500) and MAX turbo) and went to the races...while keeping the same FDR of 4.0.

The results were..................interestingly enough...sam lap times...?!..motor
was approx at the same temp, maybe a little hotter, say 150 deg F, but then again this was taken at the reflective part of the motor, maybe this is incorrect....it seems when taking the


temp on a piece of tape, temps are quitecold...




any way, all this to say that my lap timers have not improved. Based on all the threads here, my setup must be off since everyone else is experiencing gut wrenching speed changes with the latest S/W.

I know that my FDR seems extremely low, but the motor is not getting too hot, so I'm assuming that it is OK...

Should I ramp up the timing boost to 40 like everyone else? kind of scary since my FDR is currently at 4.0.

Thought that some of you might find my experience last weekend to be interesting...any advice on setup would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
MH
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:00 AM   #10193
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Originally Posted by Barry Baker View Post
Yes I did work for Novak until late Oct. 2009. Now I am working for O'Donnell/Team Checkpoint in product development. There are absolutely no hard feelings at all between Novak and myself. An opportunity came up for me to do what I love to do and they completely understood.

I was lucky enough that Jim and Randy have sent me some product to test not only in 1/8th but also 1/10th. I feel that if I can help them out in any way with the development it will not only help myself but will be passed on to all the Tekin customers.

See you at the track,

Barry
with a tekin and you behind the wheel is bad news for everyone else.good luck with everything
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:47 AM   #10194
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How many people run a fan on their Tekins? Is there an aftermarket kit or is it even necessary? I'm sure it's been asked before, but it must be more than 50 pages back, and I'm assuming the new software could have changed temp requirements (for better or worse).

I am using an RS Pro with a 17.5. I went with the pro because I may end up using it in other applications later down the road. I'm blown away by the ability to tune the ESC through Hotwire and that my laptop is now a pit tool. Definitely happy with this product.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:51 AM   #10195
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you wont have to worry about a fan,just make sure air can get to or around the post,some have mounted them to the out side of the chassis so air passes by it
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:03 AM   #10196
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Originally Posted by pakk View Post
Randy, you keep saying that turbo delay should be ideally .4 or more. As I look at the team drivers setup, half of them have .2sec delays or lower.

With such a low delay, it almost has to be applying turbo on top of boost making the curve more exponential instead of linear. Maybe an exponential curve is in the near future? Or maybe these drivers only use full throttle on the strait?
remember, team guys are there to push the edge. i am sure that you would not want team setups that were middle of the road safe. because then we would hear complaints such as "hey, this setup sucks, it is slow". Randy's suggestions are not to a single individual and he does not know how each of you drive. so I am sure that he is always going to suggest a "middle of the road" and "safe" setup as a starting point. i am sure that it does not do anyone any good and certainly not tekin for Randy to suggest 0 delay max turbo and max timing. even though it would be fast for 1 lap.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:49 AM   #10197
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remember, team guys are there to push the edge. i am sure that you would not want team setups that were middle of the road safe. because then we would hear complaints such as "hey, this setup sucks, it is slow". Randy's suggestions are not to a single individual and he does not know how each of you drive. so I am sure that he is always going to suggest a "middle of the road" and "safe" setup as a starting point. i am sure that it does not do anyone any good and certainly not tekin for Randy to suggest 0 delay max turbo and max timing. even though it would be fast for 1 lap.
That's right, and that there are some with 0,1 or 0 turbo delay and still run fast is because how they pull the trigger.
I will never set my Turbo delay below the 0,2sec. I found out that 0,4 or even higher is better for me. I pull to fast on my trigger.
This was also the reason why I was slower with the V203 than with the V200. I was driving a mod car like it was a stock car and so I mist my race line's.

I have tried to film my wheel spin but the only thing you see is, is my car leaving the screen. So fast that you don't see the wheel spin or something.
I changed my setup and had to try it.
Track was 7 meters long and the wheel spin was there for over 4 meters and than I had to hit the brake to stop in time for the wall.
It was crazy. I go in 2 weeks to a track with a lot of grip and I want to see what happens. I can't wait.

The setup with a with RPM range and a heavier gearing is working great.
I used 45 Boost but I field that I could ad 5 extra and I will maybe need just 5 Turbo Boost if not 0.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:57 AM   #10198
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I've done a lot of testing with the turbo on the new firmware and I have found anything less than .4 - .5 just adds more heat but not more speed. In fact it seems a little slower because the motor bogs down a bit trying to get up to speed. You get a launch like turbo is kicking in but it is delayed more than the .1 or .2 people set it at. In fact I will go out on a limb and say unless you are on a large track turbo isn't really going to do anything for you with the new firmware.

This all assumes you are using a high timing boost. It might do OK with a fast delay with very little timing boost but I'm not sure that would be the optimal setup.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:04 AM   #10199
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I would love to see Tekin get rid of the turbo boost / delay. I think a better approach would be a multi-part timing curve where you set RPM ranges, amount of timing advance in that range and ramp rate for that range.

Or better yet complete dynamic timing. Not sure if dynamic timing is possible but it would be cool if the ESC could determine the load and set the optimal timing on the fly.

Last edited by or8ital; 01-07-2010 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:12 AM   #10200
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
I've done a lot of testing with the turbo on the new firmware and I have found anything less than .4 - .5 just adds more heat but not more speed. In fact it seems a little slower because the motor bogs down a bit trying to get up to speed. You get a launch like turbo is kicking in but it is delayed more than the .1 or .2 people set it at. In fact I will go out on a limb and say unless you are on a large track turbo isn't really going to do anything for you with the new firmware.

This all assumes you are using a high timing boost. It might do OK with a fast delay with very little timing boost but I'm not sure that would be the optimal setup.
We've got about a 95' straight on our carpet track with a nice round sweeper leading into it (see my earlier pic.) I'm able to drop my laps by about .2 using turbo, but only if I'm smooth into the end of the sweeper, which means lifting pretty early. I almost think the .2 delay isn't enough, and might drop it to something lower. There's not really any other spots to hit full throttle on the current layout, but presumably this is something I'd need to change down the road if we had a layout with longer sections in the middle. I'm using 50 boost/10 turbo on a DUO2 13.5 with very little physical timing. FDR is about 5.2, ramp 2, .2 delay, 4500-10001ish. It's the best the car has ever felt. Coming off around 135F after 6+ min with a 25mm fan.
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