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Old 01-06-2010, 06:59 PM   #10171
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Originally Posted by ROBORAT View Post
Randy: first of, i'd like to say thanks for all the help in explaining how the new software works. kudos to you and Tekin!

From what I understand, the biggest change really is the ability to "schedule" the timing boost with rpms as the controlling factor/variable. With that in mind, would you be able to share what the trigger points were in the v200 (vegas) for timing boost to kick in? I am assuming it was also RPMs but the main difference back then was that it was fixed or preset to kick in at a certain RPM level unlike now where we can manipulate it. If i am even remotely correct in my assumption, would you be able to tell was the starting RPM level was in the previous version? I ask this because if this is so, this gives us a good peg as to where were were at before with v200 and may make it easier to fine tune and adjust now with v203.

Another thing I am assuming is that the previous version (ie. vegas 200) had no rpm range to give it a virtual "timing boost ramp" that the current v203 provides. If this assumption is correct, this would mean that back then if we set a timing boost at 20 degs, the boost was set to kick in the preset RPM value which lets say was fixed at 3000 RPMs. So basically once it 3000 RPM, the full 20 degs of timing boost was applied instantly and would remain that way until the RPMs go down below 3000k.

.... of course I could be totally off in my understanding too! which would not be surprising! haha

ps. apologies if a similar query was already asked previously...
This is EXACTLY what i was thinking before when I posted my last question about why/how we can now add something like 50 degrees of boost, but wasn't supposed to go over 30 before... because now it can be spaced out over a longer timeline so it doesn't pile on too quickly, kind of like shifting from 1st to 4th in your car.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:27 PM   #10172
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Originally Posted by ROBORAT View Post
From what I understand, the biggest change really is the ability to "schedule" the timing boost with rpms as the controlling factor/variable. With that in mind, would you be able to share what the trigger points were in the v200 (vegas) for timing boost to kick in?
Quoting from Section 6.3.2 of http://rcfaq.weebly.com/tekin-rs--hotwire.html :

Timing Boost (called boost for short) is the number of degrees of timing advance that is added, under certain conditions, to the motor timing (the timing advance set in the motor) during sensored-only mode. The boost timing is not added at low throttle settings (the driver is not asking for more speed) or when the motor is drawing a lot of current (the car is accelerating hard and the extra timing would overheat the motor). The boost is added when near full throttle and drawing moderate or low current (medium to high speed).

... boost timing is not added all at once, but the timing ramp-up is very fast, so it seems to be added all at once.

The boost trigger info came from the Tekin Prez I believe, and the ramp info from Randy.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:32 PM   #10173
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Barry Baker's setup:
The set up sheets are awesome!
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:35 PM   #10174
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Here's the link to the document that explains orange's timing, although it seems like they are just calibrating each sensor electrically, not using some proprietary measurement.

http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/i...tes/index.html
Correct, I quote verbatim from Novak's document in the one I wrote on RS/HotWire. Novak states that they do the calibration on proprietary equipment (stuff they built themselves). They are calibrating at the level of the assembled motor, not calibrating each sensor individually. Nobody else does that, as far as I know.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:44 PM   #10175
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MarkBrown:
I was reading your document and I have a question regarding motor timing. I am running a duo2. When you say to set up timing at zero degrees does that mean that I need to be about 3 notches from fully advanced on the duo2 to achieve true zero timing on that particular motor?
To get what everybody (but Novak) calls zero timing on the Duo2, you need to be about 3 notches from fully advanced. Seems weird but that's what John Tag says and I'll believe him until somebody presents convincing evidence to the contrary.

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Also on the Novak SS series if you turn the tab all the way clockwise am I at zero? If I didn't mark the factory setting I just won't truly know the amount of timing I have?
In my experience with the Novak SS motors, the range of timing adjustment is about 5 degrees to 21.5 degrees. So to run a zero motor timing setup on these motors, turn the timing as far down as you can and reduce the boost by 5 degrees as a starting point.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:45 PM   #10176
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Very odd... With V200 I had my 13.5 DUO1 middle timing hole geared around 7.2'ish FDR for an 85ft straight, 21 boost, max turbo, 0.5 delay. I have not tried V203 in it yet, but hope to this weekend and will send you a PM with what I find. I was present when a fellow racer tried his Speed Passion 13.5, and it was over geared at 6.8 FDR on the same track with V203. I'm pretty sure he was starting his timing around 3k and ending at 12k, and using some TURBO.

Jimmy
Hey Jimmy, the sp was my 17.5. I was using 7.1 for 13.5 DUO2. rpm ranges are right, 10 on the Turbo but it was probably not needed.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:01 PM   #10177
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Thank all of you for supporting us

Tell us what needs to be changed. We do have some other features in mind and new versions are sure to come. ...

Tekin Prez
I'd really like to see a motor timing calibration capability in the firmware. If there isn't room for it, then put out a firmware version that *only* does motor timing calibration, and we can switch to that version when we need it, then switch back. You only have to calibrate each motor once, after all. If you read over this thread you'll find that a significant fraction of the problems are caused by confusion about how much timing is in the various brands of motors.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:09 PM   #10178
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I'd really like to see a motor timing calibration capability in the firmware. If there isn't room for it, then put out a firmware version that *only* does motor timing calibration, and we can switch to that version when we need it, then switch back. You only have to calibrate each motor once, after all. If you read over this thread you'll find that a significant fraction of the problems are caused by confusion about how much timing is in the various brands of motors.
That's a really interesting idea. Not sure if it's possible but if it is, would be nice to have.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:34 PM   #10179
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great idea Mark. Wonder if they can make that happen. would make the RS a swiss army ESC. I'll put in my vote for it.

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I'd really like to see a motor timing calibration capability in the firmware. If there isn't room for it, then put out a firmware version that *only* does motor timing calibration, and we can switch to that version when we need it, then switch back. You only have to calibrate each motor once, after all. If you read over this thread you'll find that a significant fraction of the problems are caused by confusion about how much timing is in the various brands of motors.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:39 PM   #10180
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Anybody running a SP 17.5 in 1/12 scale? If so, what timing are you running on the motor?
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:50 PM   #10181
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200 boost started at about 4k or so and was over rather quickly at 5200 give or take. This was the reason for widening the boost range. This is allowing us to add more timing but over a larger rpm range.

Honestly you need to try these on the track to get a feel for what it can do.

I will do my best to keep posting up to date team drivers setups. Sorry for the slowish delays, I've got a cold and have to re read a few of the posts! LOL

Check here often for current setups:

http://www.teamtekin.com/hotwire/ESCsetups/index.html
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:01 PM   #10182
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:07 PM   #10183
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Randy, you keep saying that turbo delay should be ideally .4 or more. As I look at the team drivers setup, half of them have .2sec delays or lower.

With such a low delay, it almost has to be applying turbo on top of boost making the curve more exponential instead of linear. Maybe an exponential curve is in the near future? Or maybe these drivers only use full throttle on the strait?
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:12 PM   #10184
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Or maybe these drivers only use full throttle on the strait?
I think you answered your own question.....
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:14 PM   #10185
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
200 boost started at about 4k or so and was over rather quickly at 5200 give or take. This was the reason for widening the boost range. This is allowing us to add more timing but over a larger rpm range.

Honestly you need to try these on the track to get a feel for what it can do.

I will do my best to keep posting up to date team drivers setups. Sorry for the slowish delays, I've got a cold and have to re read a few of the posts! LOL

Check here often for current setups:

http://www.teamtekin.com/hotwire/ESCsetups/index.html
Hi Randy: This is great! Knowing now that 4000 and 5200 were the approximate values for start and end RPMs for v200 helps enormously! Coupling this with the other info you gave on how/in what increments the boost is applied through the RPM range is really good info. I had a very good set up for v200 so this helps me all the more on how to move forward towards making my settings even better given the added benefit of the v203's flexibility!

I will probably stick with 4000 as a start given i like when the boost actually kicks in at our track with the the layout we have. What i will play around with now is the end RPMs. Depending now on how I go up on the end RPMs value means I can now also increase my boost from 20 to maybe 30 (or more). Will just take small increments and monitor performance and heat levels just to be sure I dont fry anything!

thanks again! this is good stuff!
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