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Old 01-05-2010, 09:45 PM   #10111
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I've been reading most of the new posts since the new software while I'm sidelined with an upper respiratory infection, so I can't play with it myself yet. Here's a few things going through my head. I'm a noob and on meds, so be gentle if I say something dumb.

On my Tekin RS with Redline 21.5, 4.6 FDR, and 0 motor, 30 timing, 10 turbo, .7 delay on V200, on a 80x40' track (might be a little longer) I was seeing peak RPMs in the 12-13k range (Novak Sentry). With this setup, I was using up more of my battery in 5 minutes than when I was at 10/15/10, but the laptimes and speeds didn't seem any better (wasn't logging on those old settings). Free revving the motor, I could get it to go up to 25k RPM maxing out all the timing, but it was linear with added timing. At about 30* total timing, it would hit 16k. With 50* total, it would hit 25k. Seeing people going "all in" on their timing at <10k RPMs with low turn motors and high FDRs makes me raise an eyebrow.

Are brushless motors like real engines, in that there's a certain point where you want the timing to be "all in" and then leave it flat for most of the powerband? Or do the motors want a slower, more linear increase in timing as you approach max RPMs?

I'm also wondering why not just make the turbo an RPM trigger? Seems like it could be a lot simpler that way.

But along those lines, I'm also wondering if you could get a viable setup by reversing the role of timing and turbo? That is, use a bit of timing on the motor (like 0-10 depending on gearing and motor), a lot of turbo (like 20) with 0 delay and a ramp rate chosen to taste (this could ramp aggressively like timing boost used to). Then set up the timing boost to fill the role of turbo, using a relatively high start point, and a super high endpoint, so that it only kicks in at high RPMs, and piles on more timing the higher you spin it.

For example (guessing here), with my setup above, I'd do 10 motor timing, 20 turbo with probably ramp 1 or 2, then try maybe 20 timing boost with a starting RPM of like 12,000 and end RPM of probably 30,000. From there, I'd probably experminent with higher FDRs to see how high I can wind the motor under load.

Another question I have is how heat relates to RPM. For example, if you gear the motor lighter but spin it higher with more timing, will the gearing and timing cancel each other out yielding similar temperatures and power consumption, or will it still run hotter due to the higher RPM and timing?

-Mike
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:58 PM   #10112
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Another question I have is how heat relates to RPM. For example, if you gear the motor lighter but spin it higher with more timing, will the gearing and timing cancel each other out yielding similar temperatures and power consumption, or will it still run hotter due to the higher RPM and timing?

-Mike
Heat doesn't come from rpm, it comes from current draw. Bigger pinions reduce rpm but increase the load on the motor, increasing amp draw and therefore heat. Higher timing also increases amp draw and therefore heat.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:03 PM   #10113
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For a newbie on medication, you just said some pretty smart stuff. Stuff that perhaps could have been used locally to your significant advantage .....had it not been disseminated over the internet. Writing you a PM now.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:19 PM   #10114
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Here is the problem i am having im running 13.5 1s 1/12 scale ill get good lap times (9.1s) for about 1 1/2 min. then drop down to 9.4s to 3 min. then after 3 min. i cant even get into the 9s at all ,its like the speedo only works well if the pack is fully charged then cant function well after that.
Here ar my settings

motor-0 timing
timing boost-47
turbo boost-12
rpm-3000 start 10000 end
.3 delay
ramp-2
throtle profile 4

my gearing is 76spur 38 pinnion, tires are 42mm
any help or input would be great thanks.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:25 PM   #10115
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Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
Here is the problem i am having im running 13.5 1s 1/12 scale ill get good lap times (9.1s) for about 1 1/2 min. then drop down to 9.4s to 3 min. then after 3 min. i cant even get into the 9s at all ,its like the speedo only works well if the pack is fully charged then cant function well after that.
Here ar my settings

motor-0 timing
timing boost-47
turbo boost-12
rpm-3000 start 10000 end
.3 delay
ramp-2
throtle profile 4

my gearing is 76spur 38 pinnion, tires are 42mm
any help or input would be great thanks.
Are you using a booster or Rx pack? Try a pack if you are using a booster.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:27 PM   #10116
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I am not sure if this is an esc problem. I would think you are losing traction as your tires warm up and collect debris from the surface. See if it changes if you change tires or setup of the car.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:28 PM   #10117
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Quote:
But along those lines, I'm also wondering if you could get a viable setup by reversing the role of timing and turbo? That is, use a bit of timing on the motor (like 0-10 depending on gearing and motor), a lot of turbo (like 20) with 0 delay and a ramp rate chosen to taste (this could ramp aggressively like timing boost used to). Then set up the timing boost to fill the role of turbo, using a relatively high start point, and a super high endpoint, so that it only kicks in at high RPMs, and piles on more timing the higher you spin it.

For example (guessing here), with my setup above, I'd do 10 motor timing, 20 turbo with probably ramp 1 or 2, then try maybe 20 timing boost with a starting RPM of like 12,000 and end RPM of probably 30,000. From there, I'd probably experminent with higher FDRs to see how high I can wind the motor under load.
Interesting concept grippgoat, but, don't you have to hit full throttle for the determined amount of time before the Turbo kicks in? And once at full throttle, wouldn't this over ride the Boost setting regardless of the start and end rpm? If you feather the throttle in the infield, this would give you a dead band up to the start rpm setting so you are depending on motor timing and gearing alone for most of a tight layout, although that may not be a bad thing.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:32 PM   #10118
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:33 PM   #10119
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I am running a booster i will try a reciever pack and see if that helps thanks.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:38 PM   #10120
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I had a booster fail tonight. I've been wondering how long it would last and now I know. Rx packs for me for now on.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:56 PM   #10121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
look at what we did in Vegas. the duo will require a higher fdr (smaller pinion) than the speed passion v3 17.5. I'd start with a 5.2 fdr to be safe. don't forget to run a fan too. the older software is fast but I'd HIGHLY recommend a 25x25x15mm high cfm fan.

http://www.teamtekin.com/team/images...ndoutsetup.pdf

edit - in 17.5 I always run a duo v1 w/o motor timing.... but I really like middle hole timing for 13.5t

Thanks!
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:24 PM   #10122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
Here is the problem i am having im running 13.5 1s 1/12 scale ill get good lap times (9.1s) for about 1 1/2 min. then drop down to 9.4s to 3 min. then after 3 min. i cant even get into the 9s at all ,its like the speedo only works well if the pack is fully charged then cant function well after that.
Here ar my settings

motor-0 timing
timing boost-47
turbo boost-12
rpm-3000 start 10000 end
.3 delay
ramp-2
throtle profile 4
Try increasing your turbo boost delay and running less timing overall. Seems to me like your over timed
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:36 PM   #10123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
look at what we did in Vegas. the duo will require a higher fdr (smaller pinion) than the speed passion v3 17.5. I'd start with a 5.2 fdr to be safe. don't forget to run a fan too. the older software is fast but I'd HIGHLY recommend a 25x25x15mm high cfm fan.

http://www.teamtekin.com/team/images...ndoutsetup.pdf

edit - in 17.5 I always run a duo v1 w/o motor timing.... but I really like middle hole timing for 13.5t
Now that I've run a Tekin with turbo and see how insane it is on the straights, it makes sense why my car 17.5 car was so damn slow in Vegas! I tried so many different combinations trying to get that SPv3 to not be a dog.

I ran the software tonight in 13.5. Track is about 96x42 (pic attached). It's definitely got the power in the middle I felt like the Tekin always lacked, which is a welcome change, and the turbo on the straights is no joke, it makes timing the sweeper a challenge. If there's more power to put down in the infield (in a sedan), I wasn't finding many places to do it. The motor rips hard like other ESC's out of the turns, but nothing that seemed any stronger than the SPX it replaced. On the straights, though, no question it's superior.

I actually found myself geared really high (near a 5.0) with a 13.5 DUO2 (timing 1 mark past center). Boost was 50, turbo 10/.2/ramp 2. The motor came off cool, like 135ish after 6 minutes w/fan. The same motor on the SPX (timing 2 marks past center) on profile 7 was happy around 6.5FDR, felt about as strong in the infield, came off around 165 w/fan, but had nothing on the Tekin on the straights.

Maybe I'd see more advantage in the infield with 17.5 or 1S pan cars? Not saying it's not great, just didn't feel like it was quite the game changer I'd hoped for. Either way, this is definitely my ESC of choice now.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:50 PM   #10124
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Hey guys, I'm looking for some info. I just converted to a RS Pro/Epic Duo 2 17.5 in my TC5R for the Novak race at Trackside (high traction carpet, around 100' straight), and we need to run the V200 as was mentioned earlier. Can anyone recomend a good starting point as far as gearing, motor timing setting, turbo/boost settings, and any other info that might help? I know I'll need to tune it a bit, but some sort of baseline would be great.
-Thanks-
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:52 PM   #10125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
Interesting concept grippgoat, but, don't you have to hit full throttle for the determined amount of time before the Turbo kicks in? And once at full throttle, wouldn't this over ride the Boost setting regardless of the start and end rpm? If you feather the throttle in the infield, this would give you a dead band up to the start rpm setting so you are depending on motor timing and gearing alone for most of a tight layout, although that may not be a bad thing.
If you set the turbo delay to 0, though, you'd only have the ramp time to wait through. So balancing the ramp for normal corner exits versus standing starts and mistake recovery would be a bit of an issue, but maybe less of an issue than the version 200 turbo delay tuning. With version 200, if you made a mistake (I still make lots of them), or you have to lift off because of traffic coming onto the straight or something, it screws up the timer, and your turbo doesn't kick in.

I'd still think having RPM-based timing and RPM-based turbo would make the most sense, though.

-Mike
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