R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-03-2010, 08:25 PM   #9856
Tech Master
 
Danny-b23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,336
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
Actually turbo is completely seperate from boost and has nothing to do with rpm. Turbo can actually be engaged and advance the timing before boost with a 0 delay. The Hotwire was not suppose to go below .3sec in the release version..... you know what happens when you hurry.

With turbo delay at 0sec and the ramp rate at 3x the unit could add significant timing advance before the motor is turning fast enough to take it.

In most applications we do not think Turbo is really needed. Turbo really is meant for very short uses and only when the motor is fully spooled out and you have room to squeeze just a little more. If you had NOS in your car you would not drive around holding the button

Tekin Prez
So in other words, you're saying that turbo will only engage at full throttle after the motor is fully wound out, and it is not based on the END RPM that you set the advance of timing to stop at?
__________________
RC America|XRAY|ORCA|Motiv|EA Motorsports
Danny Buck
WCICS Rep - Round 1, Saskatoon, SK
Danny-b23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:26 PM   #9857
Tech Lord
 
20 SMOKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: HVR_ WEEKI WACHEE FL
Posts: 10,299
Trader Rating: 101 (100%+)
Default

SteveL
how much timing is on the motor.if you cooked a motor i would start by taking out turbo
__________________
Jamie W
*Team Tekin*Tekno-rc*DE Racing*AKA*DDHRC*
20 SMOKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:27 PM   #9858
Tech Addict
 
alangking_306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 593
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyrc View Post
just for reference, what was the problem?
at the soft ware i click revease motor, what a careless i am, but the power awesome,,,not yet really setting, if somebody know the setting for asphlat using 11.5t sp v3 thanks
__________________
4pk,PT 2549804,V one R4,,RB matrix,nova 353,3st (RRRR,mega, evo2 history)
JBRCC -Black Crow Racing Team-
alangking_306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:30 PM   #9859
Tech Lord
 
20 SMOKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: HVR_ WEEKI WACHEE FL
Posts: 10,299
Trader Rating: 101 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny-b23 View Post
So in other words, you're saying that turbo will only engage at full throttle after the motor is fully wound out, and it is not based on the END RPM that you set the advance of timing to stop at?
turbo come in at full throttle.if you run 0 delay there shouldn't be much timing boost because you have already added turbo but adding that soon it could bog or act like a cog
__________________
Jamie W
*Team Tekin*Tekno-rc*DE Racing*AKA*DDHRC*
20 SMOKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:32 PM   #9860
Tech Master
 
Mark506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 1,086
Trader Rating: 42 (100%+)
Default

Anyone Run V203 with the Nemesis motor? I wasn't to impressed today with the combo, mostly the motor in general.
Mark506 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:34 PM   #9861
Tech Champion
 
Krio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
Posts: 5,103
Trader Rating: 150 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny-b23 View Post
So in other words, you're saying that turbo will only engage at full throttle after the motor is fully wound out, and it is not based on the END RPM that you set the advance of timing to stop at?
No, turbo is added on top of any timing the instant your delay is up when you are holding full throttle.
Picture this:
You set turbo to 20 degrees with .0 delay and the fastest ramp rate. With boost you have your end rpm as 20000 with 40 degrees and "0" rpm for you start rpm. If you are at 10000 rpm and hold full throttle the turbo will add in addition to the 20 degrees of boost at 10000 rpm.
__________________
www.kriostasis.com
Krio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:35 PM   #9862
Tech Lord
 
20 SMOKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: HVR_ WEEKI WACHEE FL
Posts: 10,299
Trader Rating: 101 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alangking_306 View Post
at the soft ware i click revease motor, what a careless i am, but the power awesome,,,not yet really setting, if somebody know the setting for asphlat using 11.5t sp v3 thanks
did you run vegas 1 with the 11.5
__________________
Jamie W
*Team Tekin*Tekno-rc*DE Racing*AKA*DDHRC*
20 SMOKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:35 PM   #9863
Team Tekin
 
Randy_Pike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Norcal
Posts: 9,702
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to Randy_Pike
Default

Turbo when set with a 0.0 delay will be instantly applied when full throttle is hit. Which is why we don't reccomend this setup.

Turbo IS NOT affected by RPM.
__________________
"Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." Abraham Lincoln

Tekin,Protek,A-Main Hobbies,JConcepts,Avid RC,Yokomo,MIP,SikLidz,FactoryRC, www.randypikerc.com
Randy_Pike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:37 PM   #9864
Tech Master
 
Danny-b23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,336
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Turbo when set with a 0.0 delay will be instantly applied when full throttle is hit. Which is why we don't reccomend this setup.

Turbo IS NOT affected by RPM.
Thanks for clarifying. I was pretty sure that RPM had no effect on turbo, but I wasn't sure.
__________________
RC America|XRAY|ORCA|Motiv|EA Motorsports
Danny Buck
WCICS Rep - Round 1, Saskatoon, SK
Danny-b23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:37 PM   #9865
Tech Elite
 
theisgroup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,191
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
FIrst day results were mixed. Car was stupid fast using the follwoing set up:

Drag Brake - 10
Brake Strength - 100
Throttle pofile - 5
Boost - 50
Turbo - 10
Turbo delay - .2
Ramp - 3
Start rpm - 1437
End rpm - 4000
Motor timing - middle position on a Duo 1 Trinity

Roll out was 64.3mm - 42 tire with 78/38 Track is 66' x 36' and pretty open. 8.5 second fast lap time.

Easily .3 sec per lap faster than I have been able to do before but there is a problem. First off, I tested a few different settings and gear ratios early in the day and checked the temp after about 2 minutes each time. Started the morning off with around 140* which I thought would be too hot so I geared down each time until I got to the above roll out. Temp was actually going up each time I went down a tooth but I ran out of practice time and had to run this gearing in the first qualifier.

At the 7 minute mark, the car just stopped and then started to smoke. Yep, burnt Drew Ellis's On Road Nat's motor to the ground. Later in the day I pulled the battery out only to find that the three motor wires that run under the pack, (Yes I run a t-bar with the pack going over the top) had melted a groove in the 1s plastic hard case. When I pulled the car off the track after finding the motor smoking I noticed that every piece of metal in the rear pod including the screws that hold on the top plate were blisteringly hot.

Pulled out the motor and replaced it with a Hacker 13.5 that I had run before and everything went back to normal except for the fact that it took almost 4700mah to recharge the pack after the melt down. Ran the last qualifier finding out that the Hacker needs more boost to be as fast as the Duo.

Question is, was it the motor that caused the melt down or esc set up or gearing? (Drew says Tekin owes him a new motor.) It was odd that the temp kept going up as I geared down, but one guy at the track says that brushless can get hot if they are under geared just as easily as being over geared. Is this correct?

All I know is that the new software is seriously faster than the old and I will have fun trying to find the sweet spot for the new motor than I'm ordering tomorrow morning. (sorry Drew)

And to top off the day, my old Turbo 30 shot craps and fried my receiver pack right before the main. Not a good day.

Any feedback would be appreciated as to what could be the cause for the melting motor.
i would say your start rpm is too low. if you need to add timing that low in the rpm range, they you are better off going to the wide rpm band and have an end rpm near the top end of your motor. that ways you are not adding timing too fast and bogging the motor down. if you want to run a more punchy setup, then move the rpm range higher like say the default 3000-4500. this type of setup make use of the torque of the motor coming out of the corner and just gives it a boost where the motor would normally feal flat.
__________________
yang lai

Team Tamale | Team Tekin | RCAmerica | Speedmerchant | Speedzone RC | EA Motorsports | Ko Propo USA | eXpress Motorsports | Parma/PSE
theisgroup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:40 PM   #9866
Tech Apprentice
 
Clint161's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Langley B.C.
Posts: 81
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Turbo when set with a 0.0 delay will be instantly applied when full throttle is hit. Which is why we don't reccomend this setup.

Turbo IS NOT affected by RPM.
Thank you!
I was looking for a straight to the point answer.

Quite ofter I think I understand the speedo and then I read some posts on here and get confused.
Clint161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:44 PM   #9867
Tech Elite
 
tallyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: palm city, fl
Posts: 2,594
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Turbo when set with a 0.0 delay will be instantly applied when full throttle is hit. Which is why we don't reccomend this setup.

Turbo IS NOT affected by RPM.
so it's a little glitch? if we simply use .1 it wont engage till after end rpm is reached + .1 but with 0 it just jumps to adding turbo regardless of rpm?
__________________
WWW.STORMERHOBBIES.COM helping keep pan cars alive!

Turns out not where, but who your with that really matters... DMB
tallyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:45 PM   #9868
Tech Elite
 
andrewdoherty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ★Wylie, TX★
Posts: 3,776
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
FIrst day results were mixed. Car was stupid fast using the follwoing set up:

Drag Brake - 10
Brake Strength - 100
Throttle pofile - 5
Boost - 50
Turbo - 10
Turbo delay - .2
Ramp - 3
Start rpm - 1437
End rpm - 4000
Motor timing - middle position on a Duo 1 Trinity

Roll out was 64.3mm - 42 tire with 78/38 Track is 66' x 36' and pretty open. 8.5 second fast lap time.

Easily .3 sec per lap faster than I have been able to do before but there is a problem. First off, I tested a few different settings and gear ratios early in the day and checked the temp after about 2 minutes each time. Started the morning off with around 140* which I thought would be too hot so I geared down each time until I got to the above roll out. Temp was actually going up each time I went down a tooth but I ran out of practice time and had to run this gearing in the first qualifier.

At the 7 minute mark, the car just stopped and then started to smoke. Yep, burnt Drew Ellis's On Road Nat's motor to the ground. Later in the day I pulled the battery out only to find that the three motor wires that run under the pack, (Yes I run a t-bar with the pack going over the top) had melted a groove in the 1s plastic hard case. When I pulled the car off the track after finding the motor smoking I noticed that every piece of metal in the rear pod including the screws that hold on the top plate were blisteringly hot.

Pulled out the motor and replaced it with a Hacker 13.5 that I had run before and everything went back to normal except for the fact that it took almost 4700mah to recharge the pack after the melt down. Ran the last qualifier finding out that the Hacker needs more boost to be as fast as the Duo.

Question is, was it the motor that caused the melt down or esc set up or gearing? (Drew says Tekin owes him a new motor.) It was odd that the temp kept going up as I geared down, but one guy at the track says that brushless can get hot if they are under geared just as easily as being over geared. Is this correct?

All I know is that the new software is seriously faster than the old and I will have fun trying to find the sweet spot for the new motor than I'm ordering tomorrow morning. (sorry Drew)

And to top off the day, my old Turbo 30 shot craps and fried my receiver pack right before the main. Not a good day.

Any feedback would be appreciated as to what could be the cause for the melting motor.
In my first few runs with 203 I had my 17.5 12th motor in the 160's. I geared down twice for a total of 4 teeth and didn't notice any difference in motor temps after 8 minutes. At the time I had a 2400-7500 RPM range, max timing and 5 turbo coming in after .2. I took the turbo out and my temps dropped down 30+ degrees. With your end RPM at 4500, IMHO it sounds like maybe you are adding too much timing too soon.
__________________
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." -Henry Ford
"[Driving] Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration" -T.A. Edison
|◤Hobbywing◢|◤SpeedzoneUSA.com◢|◤Pro-One◢|
|◤ReflexRacing.net◢|◤Protoform◢|◤AVID R/C◢|
andrewdoherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:50 PM   #9869
Tech Champion
 
Krio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: At dirt tracks in Michigan!
Posts: 5,103
Trader Rating: 150 (99%+)
Default

SteveL says:
Drag Brake - 10
Brake Strength - 100
Throttle pofile - 5
Boost - 50
Turbo - 10
Turbo delay - .2
Ramp - 3
Start rpm - 1437
End rpm - 4000
Motor timing - middle position on a Duo 1 Trinity

Krio says:
You were WAY overtimed at mid/low rpm. With the middle whole on the duo, 50 degrees of boost @ 4k rpm, and 10 turbo with the fastest ramp up you were easily pulling 70+ degrees of timing at HALF speed assuming 1s. For your small track you should drop your boost to 40, put the end rpm closer to 10k, and probably turn the motor to the lowest timing hole with no turbo. Then gear back up now that your motor is running icy cold.
__________________
www.kriostasis.com
Krio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 08:50 PM   #9870
Tech Elite
 
Greg Sharpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ...building minis
Posts: 3,237
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
The turbo kicks in after the speedo sees the high RPM value + any delay that you've put in. I imagine that delay would be added based on track conditions.
I've found settings that contradict that, where the turbo would kick in below even the low RPM value. The resulting addition of RPM can be adjusted with the Turbo Ramp, proving it is at least triggered by the Turbo. Not sure what math within the software is responsible for this, but it's challenging trying to figure it out. I also don't think this is useful in of itself, but I'd love to find out why this happens.

To answer the impending question of "what settings do this?", the RPM values are so sensitive that they will be different based on the endbell timing of any given motor, even within the same family of motors. But the basic concept is this: Set your Timing Boost low RPM value just barely out of reach for your motor, just a few thousand RPM above where the motor would naturally top out (from the effects of it's endbell timing) so that Timing Boost won't occur. Then set your turbo delay to 2.0 full seconds, a nice big value so that you can effectively perceive the difference between full RPM (from endbell timing) and the ramp up of the Turbo Boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Turbo when set with a 0.0 delay will be instantly applied when full throttle is hit. Which is why we don't reccomend this setup. Turbo IS NOT affected by RPM.
Randy answered my post before I could finish writing it! No one provides faster service than Tekin, NO ONE!
__________________
Why don't we endurance race more often?
Greg Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tekin Redline RS Sensored ESC and motors, opinions for offroad? Cain Electric Off-Road 4230 06-07-2015 04:38 PM
Sensored vs. Sensorless lemansracer Electric On-Road 71 02-14-2009 03:19 AM
New Tekin Redline Sensored Motors are Roar Legal! Randy_Pike Electric On-Road 3 08-05-2008 02:08 AM
Tekin Redline Sensored 10.5 HUCKMAN Electric On-Road 6 07-15-2008 08:50 PM
sensored vs sensorless bprocket Rookie Zone 5 05-16-2008 09:38 AM


Tags
v203, vegas 2.0


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:27 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net