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Old 12-03-2009, 06:09 PM   #8416
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man, really quite interesting. instead of using a steady state drive circuit, using the PWM drive circuit, the speedo can provide max torque out of the motor at any rpm. the only limiting factor is the amount of current that is available. i also see that the power required to run the PWM drive circuit is more then a steady state drive circuit, so that may explain why the "RX" pack is direct connected to the speedo to allow for max performance of the PWM drive circuit.

or at leat that is my understand from what I have read
from what I have seen when looking at the output of most esc's on an oscilloscope, even brushed not so long ago (seems like yesterday), they all have been using PWM for many years, over 20 if my memory of when I first looked at the output of an ESC is correct. So, PWM is not new. They are just using a modulation algorithm better than anyone else's, so far. I still contend that its likely Tekin, because they can with the RS and its programmability, and others soon as well, will figure out the modulation algorithm and implement it, and then all will be on the same level again. Faster for all hopefully. If history repeats itself, again, that is always how it has been, someone always finds something good, then all latch onto it, copy it as they see it, even make improvements, then we move on to the next new thing. The extra cost for one of these new ESC's, well, they can do it since they have the buzz, for now...
This happened in slots about 30 years ago when the first electronic controllers came out, everybody thought they were using circuitry to double the voltage, and any other speculation you could think of. I built many, modified many more, and I can tell you, the hi tech electronic versions just made control better, but did not increase overall power. The rules didn't allow for it anyway. It would have been easier to play games with voltage increases with slots because the power source was basically not limited as much as we have with our limited batteries. You can only get so many watts of electricity out of a battery, when it is empty, its empty. Even if you were to double the voltage, you would use up twice, (really more than twice due to inefficiencies) of the amp/hours available.
I've been racing for almost 40 years, have seen this before, many times, I am sure I will live long enough too see it a few more.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:10 PM   #8417
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not what I was saying.

all speedos maybe using pwm drive circuits. But it seams that the AE maybe the only one that varies the frequency. and it looks like the higher the freq the more power the pwm circuit requires. I understand that there is a port on the speedo and that it is said that it is only because of the BEC that people use it. I am just saying that maybe it is not just for the convenience, but that the "recommended" configuration is to have the rx pack connected to the speedo. And the reason is that the pwm circuit when varying the freq to a high freq may require a more consistent power source then the varying power source of the main 3.7v battery pack. especially during hard acceleration, which is where the AE shines. at no point did I say that the RX is used to drive the motor.
Sorry, that one post wasn't aimed at you but all the general misinformation on this page. lol
The KO propo brushless esc is computer adjustable and you can change the frequency and it offers some improvement, but it can't shake a stick at the tekin or bd. Also, at full throttle it does not matter what the frequency of the fets are running at.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:21 PM   #8418
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how much difference in gearing does the tekin have vs. the spx? can i just start with the same gear i used with the spx?
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:25 PM   #8419
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i have found during some test runs on my duo2 17.5 that it works better with motor timing around 10-15,0 motor and full boost it came off the corner good but fell flat for about 10ft and then started to pick up speed then turbo came in.know it pulls good of the corner mid is good and turbo still pulls 150 feet away from me and the track i run only has about 150 straight. but with more testing i think it will only get better.
and on a side not the lrp's at the track i ran at cant pull away
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:27 PM   #8420
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Sorry, that one post wasn't aimed at you but all the general misinformation on this page. lol
The KO propo brushless esc is computer adjustable and you can change the frequency and it offers some improvement, but it can't shake a stick at the tekin or bd. Also, at full throttle it does not matter what the frequency of the fets are running at.
sorry

agreed, but from what I saw in vegas and what others saw at cleveland, it seams that the AE advantage was not the top speed, but the rate at which they could get the car to top speed.

And I agree with you on the KO, but the drive frequency is not dynamic and the settings are set by the user. One other thing with that is that the drive frequency is not by the rpm of the motor, but is set by the throttle position. and it is throttle position based on the transmitter's throttle position. so if I pull the thottle to mid-throttle, it set the drive frequency to what I have in the profile. even though the motor still needs to accelerate to that point in the motor's rpm curve.

question is if the tekin does anything with the voltage frequency.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:32 PM   #8421
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how much difference in gearing does the tekin have vs. the spx? can i just start with the same gear i used with the spx?
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i have found during some test runs on my duo2 17.5 that it works better with motor timing around 10-15,0 motor and full boost it came off the corner good but fell flat for about 10ft and then started to pick up speed then turbo came in.know it pulls good of the corner mid is good and turbo still pulls 150 feet away from me and the track i run only has about 150 straight. but with more testing i think it will only get better.
and on a side not the lrp's at the track i ran at cant pull away
I run on a track just a little smaller, it is about 120' back straight and the layout right now is pretty fast. I actually gear like I did with my lrp sphere. I find that if I work on infiled speed, that I just use turbo to get me the extra I need. I am running 0 motor timing and only like 5-10 timing boost and turbo to max but at 1.2sec. this is with a 17.5 in 1/12 and geared to the moon. I ran almost 100mm roll out and it was faster then the weekend before where I was at 97mm.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:19 PM   #8422
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In our area, we run on smaller carpet tracks, straightaway lenghts less than 80 feet. I've had no luck at all with turbo, it seems like you have to set the delay so low (.3-.5) to see any additional straight speed. The net result is, the car gets sluggish in the infield. Right now I'm running both TC and 1/12with turbo set to zero. Anyone have any experience with this??
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:33 PM   #8423
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thats what my tc was doing,try a little more motor timing try 10 and 20 on boost with the same gearing. dont worry about turbo untill you get the infeild the way you like and then lower the delay.
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:17 PM   #8424
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that's what I was thinking...

I don't see it being simply a timing thing, as when we have tried 15 on the motor, 30 on the boost and 15 on the turbo all we get is a lot of heat and not the same top speed. Whatever they've done is clever, and will mean everyone else has to do it too. I can wait for Tekin...
Your motor + ESC boost timing together should not exceed 30. Yours was 45, so it generated lots of heat. Go back to 5 on the motor and 25 on the ESC and it will not generate heat. (this is just an example, you can go to 15-15, 10-20, 14-16, etc. but maybe 30 is too much and you need 0-25 only).

I suggest you to follow these steps to set up your esc:
1. gear the car light
2. set up your motor timing. to do so, run the car on the track and monitor your in-field performance. try different combinations of motor and esc timing, but the sum should not exceed 30. do not measure your top speed in the straight, it is not important yet
3. when you are satisfied with the behavior of your car in the corners, set up the gearing. run 3 minutes and measure the temperature of your motor. the gearing is right if you get 80deg C. If you have more, make the gearing shorter, if you measure colder, then you can make the gearing longer. make sure you always start your 3 minutes with cold motor.
4. now, your in-field performance is set. you have to set up the esc for the straight. start with turbo 10 and turbo delay 0,8s (on a long straight, but if you drive on a small track you can start from 0,5s). you have to set up the turbo value in a way that your car accelerates to a meaningful top speed and you set up the timing in a way that you can see only one acceleration and not two.

hope this helps
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:18 PM   #8425
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Thanks to a member on here and his computer smarts in coding programs my Hotwire now works on my laptop!

I have version 200 on there now and I'm looking for the version that allows me to adjust the trubo boost time. 200. something?

If you have it, can you please e-mail me a copy at [email protected] I'd greatly appreciate it!
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:39 PM   #8426
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Version 200 allows you to adjust the turbo boost time down to .5s, if you need to go lower than that you'll want the V200 Vegas version.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:02 PM   #8427
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Vegas 200 was on TQcells.com a while back, but I can't remember the link.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:09 PM   #8428
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Thanks to a member on here and his computer smarts in coding programs my Hotwire now works on my laptop!

I have version 200 on there now and I'm looking for the version that allows me to adjust the trubo boost time. 200. something?

If you have it, can you please e-mail me a copy at [email protected] I'd greatly appreciate it!
Vegas is sent.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:10 PM   #8429
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Vegas 200 was on TQcells.com a while back, but I can't remember the link.
almost on every page you can now find the link, because people ask before they read
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:32 PM   #8430
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Vegas is sent.
thank u very much!
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