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Old 11-18-2009, 02:40 PM   #8206
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
You know what, you guys are right. We should go back to brushed because there wasn't any work or "black magic" that went into a "tuned" "stock" motor. Zapping magnets, balancing arms, new brushes (every run in mod 12th), Countless hours tuning on the dyno cutting (ruining mostly) 30 pair of brushes to find that extra couple of watts. Yeah, I'd be glad to drag out the old Twister lathe and all the extra weight to haul around.

Yeah, lets go back to the days when you had to have 3 or so handout motors to find one good one at Cleveland (motors that weren't used after the race). Yeah, that was cheap. Lets go back to the days when they checked all of the handout motors in order to catch the guys cranking comms. Lets go back to the days of ruining the TV in your hotel room zapping magnets. Lets go back to the days of cutting the comm down to nothing because you were running on a big track. Oh, and my personal fave, lets go back to the days of cutting brushes so that I can cut my throttle finger up on the first practice day of a big race. I really liked cutting brushes all the time.

Yeah, running brushless is so much more complicated and harder to tech. The free updates that we get from Tekin are so much more expensive than the brushes we wasted trying to find that magic shape. Oiling the bearings in a BL motor every couple of months is so much harder than cutting the comm and rebreaking-in the brushes every 1 to 5 runs or so.

And if we are going to go back to brushless I want to go all the way back to ROAR 91's. You remember the old motors like the Parma wet mag motors with stand-up brushes. Yeah, those were the bomb.
Hahaha i am actually entertained at work reading this LOL
So much sarcasm in one mini esay so much emotion put into it lol.

Cheers
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:06 PM   #8207
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Brushes were $1.99 to 3.99 a pair

Laptop=LATHE
rotor tester=MAGNET ZAPPER

Weak rotor replacement= $30, bad brushed arm $15
Poor quality can windings= $50, Weak brushed can $25
Totally bad BL motor= $80, 3 handout motors $75

Yeah the horrible expense of brushes and the "black art" of motor tuning

Noone was suggesting that we return to brushed, just that it had been pointed out before the change over that it wasn't gonna level the playing field like many had claimed.

I've done both and both have their disadvantages/advantages, and noone was really proposing we return to brushed. In the end it's pretty much the same. I didn't spend any less racing the Halloween Classic this year than I did in the days of brushed motors, nor did I spend any less time looking for horsepower. Now we just do it differently.

Next up: How Lipo has ended the battery wars
Ian your thought process makes why to much sense right now. What you on?

I must hear more about how lipo ended the battery wars....
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:16 PM   #8208
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do we really have to turn every thread into this every 5 weeks or so? i got 3 years out of a USED 13.5 and 2 years from a USED orion 5000mah pack...
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:20 PM   #8209
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Lets stick to the Tekin RS ESC speed controls please.

If you want to go back in time grab a pencil and a piece of paper and write a nice letter to the sender. I am sure they would appreciate it.

Thank you.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:58 PM   #8210
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Originally Posted by VenturaDC View Post
why only post this in the tekin thread? Do you not relize that almost everyone is making an esc that does the same kind of stuff?
lrp spx
mamba max pro
team wave rb50
crc
novak kinetic
GM
CRC isn't making any speedo. The CRC is a Advance speedcontrol what they are selling.

I'm happy with my Tekin and I stick with it.
With brushed they cheated with there motor and the power difference was a lot bigger.

But now back to Tekin.
I got for the first time 3 lights burning on my speedo after a race.
Now I no that I can cool it by a fan but can it also be that because I use 1 size thinner wires on the speedo to the motor that, that courses the head in the speedo?
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:47 PM   #8211
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Originally Posted by mikky32 View Post
But now back to Tekin.
I got for the first time 3 lights burning on my speedo after a race.
Now I no that I can cool it by a fan but can it also be that because I use 1 size thinner wires on the speedo to the motor that, that courses the head in the speedo?
I've been running heavier wire on the battery side in 12th because the wire acts like a heatsink. Heavier wire will keep the speedo cooler.

3 lights on temp wise isn't a big deal. When you get up in the 5 light range it's time to start looking at a fan or changing the set-up.

In sedan I would run the Tekin wire that came with the speedo. It's actually really good wire but too big for 12th. You could wire your house with that stuff though.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:09 PM   #8212
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Well if you're delay is at 1.0 seconds it's not too early. If you "feel" that you're pulling him the whole time in the S section than I'd say leave it. You're setup is quite mild to be honest however with the proper gearing I'm sure it's working just fine. You could try to simply add 5 degrees of timing boost without changing your gearing and see if you like the change...

Thnak you R'machine, Randy.

I know it's mild, but it works very nicely on our track. The rather long-ish turbo delay is needed so the car doesn't kick into gear on the straights we have between hairpins and such.

I was actually considering testing another throttle profile. I will try and let you know.

As for the debate raging about this or other BL systems, I think there was only a amatter of time before our hobby too became a software battle like everything else. This is the modern battleground ladeez, so it doesn't look like we have a choice. Unless indeed we all agree to go back to mechanical speed controllers (which defeat the purpose of having proportional radios). By the way, nobody seems to point out the unfair advantage brought about by various top end radios (which I myself have only recently been introduced to).

The best we can hope for is that the trend catches on and prices go down. For the time being, I don't think anyone can beat the Tekin prices (if not the performance). 250-300$ for a motor/ESC combo which is roughly the price of an equivalent ESC from other companies coupled with the tunability of the system (which effectively puts the driver in control) is the main advantage and I am not sure this is unfair. On the contrary, I think the Tekin system returns the control to the driver and actually takes the battle back on the track (as much as possible at the moment) and out of the computing facility.

The hobby goes through a major technological transformation and we have been caught out a little bit, but as soon as things will settle down a bit we'll have time to catch up. Personally I think the "preset" electronics are going remain the realm of entry level R/C whereas the top end equipment will follow the Tekin trend and allow endless customisation by the driver/end user. We just have to learn to do it. Being an old skool type, I am struggling a bit myself (even though my results would suggest otherwise) but I have to say, the support by Tekin team builds confidence.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:24 PM   #8213
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Originally Posted by Greg Amendola View Post
/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
If you take a step back and look at this post again I think you're word it different. Tekin didn't ruin anything. We had software prior the release of the SPX that was neck and neck with anything out there. The SPX came out and boosted the motors. We had to make adjustments to our software to stay competitive. ALL of our customers received this upgraded software for FREE!

That being said I see your overall point for the stock/spec classes. We've been approached by a few other race leagues and categories to work on "spec" software. We will most likely persue this should such a demand prove itself. Again, this upgrade will be free.

I would like to see this thread get back on task for what it was originally started for. Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:47 PM   #8214
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Hi Randy,

Got a problem which need help.
Yesterday while trying to change the power cap for my RS pro. I saw some sparks shooting out from the wire point to the sholdering poles and after that my RS pro could not work anymore. Tried reloading the program it works a while and it goes off after i tried to calibrate my transmitter to the esc.

Does it sound like i have to send the ESC back???
Who or Where do i send it to???
My location is in Singapore.

Kevin.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:17 AM   #8215
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
I've been running heavier wire on the battery side in 12th because the wire acts like a heatsink. Heavier wire will keep the speedo cooler.

3 lights on temp wise isn't a big deal. When you get up in the 5 light range it's time to start looking at a fan or changing the set-up.

In sedan I would run the Tekin wire that came with the speedo. It's actually really good wire but too big for 12th. You could wire your house with that stuff though.
I no that 3 lights are no problem but it's the first time I see more than 2 lights and the 2 lights were on a hot day.
I think that I change back to the Tekin wires.
Thanks.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:42 PM   #8216
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Hello, Tekin addicts, , now is time to test here, for the next session i go back to only modified class, i like more than the stock category.

I never use my Tekin esc, in modified, and i make some test in track with Lipo and modifieds, finally i finish with X12 4.0T, is very much power, but the track have good grip, and with the Tekin Esc, is driveable.
The track is large 1/10 nitro track, with 50m (~165 ft) straight.

With lot of test, finally i ended with this setup:
Motor Nosram Pure 4.0T @ -5 timming, FDR: 8.6
Dual mode - DB:7 BS:80 NW:5 TP:3 PCff TMB:75 LM:72
Very good power out of curves, smooth control, and very consistent.
Motor temp about 65C, and 6 lights in Esc, without fan, for 5 min heat.
Is only one of the first test,i plan to do more tests and improve the performance much more, but it is a good starting point.

Im wait for new software update and more Tekin power, i use V.200 Vegas firmware.

Greetings, Luis C.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:50 PM   #8217
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Originally Posted by luic View Post
Hello, Tekin addicts, , now is time to test here, for the next session i go back to only modified class, i like more than the stock category.

I never use my Tekin esc, in modified, and i make some test in track with Lipo and modifieds, finally i finish with X12 4.0T, is very much power, but the track have good grip, and with the Tekin Esc, is driveable.
The track is large 1/10 nitro track, with 50m (~165 ft) straight.

With lot of test, finally i ended with this setup:
Motor Nosram Pure 4.0T @ -5 timming, FDR: 8.6
Dual mode - DB:7 BS:80 NW:5 TP:3 PCff TMB:75 LM:72
Very good power out of curves, smooth control, and very consistent.
Motor temp about 65C, and 6 lights in Esc, without fan, for 5 min heat.
Is only one of the first test,i plan to do more tests and improve the performance much more, but it is a good starting point.

Im wait for new software update and more Tekin power, i use V.200 Vegas firmware.

Greetings, Luis C.
Did you ad a second cap?
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:54 PM   #8218
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Did you ad a second cap?
No, i use a very low ESR capacitor 2200uf 16v, not the original.

Greetings, Luis C.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:40 PM   #8219
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.

Last edited by LOW ET; 11-22-2009 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:45 PM   #8220
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i have a question that is in the back of my head and i need some help.

i race 1/12 17.5 1s on carpet most of the time the track is 48x80 with good traction and tight a straight maybe 50' - just as much throttle as steering. my settings have been 20 on the motor, 5 to 10 boost, full turbo at .2 with rollout 78 to 83mm. i am going to a track that is going to be a little bigger 48x90 and the straight will be 90' with my current setup can i run it and not worry about burning up the motor? 20+5+20=45 is that going to be a problem? i plan on gearing up but a good starting point is good to? can a motor have top time problems?

i look for any and all response.
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