R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-18-2009, 10:56 AM   #8191
Tech Master
 
Greg Amendola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,411
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to Greg Amendola
Default

/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
Greg Amendola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 10:56 AM   #8192
Tech Elite
 
reenmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,539
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Well if you're delay is at 1.0 seconds it's not too early.
Whoops...I didn't notice that your delay was already at 1.0.
__________________
Pete Waydo
2010 Big Fat Turkey Race Mini Cooper AAA Main Champion
*** currently in stasis ***
reenmachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 11:28 AM   #8193
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 7,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amendola View Post
/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
Greg I understand where you are coming from. I warned often about the issues that would arise from going BL and the things that can be done electronically. However Tekin isn't the only ESC that can do what it does nor was it the first...so I would hope your dissatisfaction is aimed at those other ESCs as well. With the Tekin and newer ESCs on the market at least they will have upgradeable software so that when a new timing idea comes out you won't have to buy a new ESC or motor. When other companies do that too the playing field will be pretty level. I was really surprised at how level things seemed at the IIC running LiPo and BL. It was the first time I felt I wasn't being over powered by other cars that had better batteries and motors. My car felt as quick as any on the track with me and any lack of performance was with the driver. And having Randy there supporting the product was awesome! I have a feeling eventually we will come to a point where all the ESCs will be pretty even across the board as the technology gets more explored and that will come much sooner then it ever did with brushed...seeing how things never equalized properly with brushed and round cells.
InspGadgt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 11:45 AM   #8194
Tech Adept
 
sgvrcboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 106
Send a message via AIM to sgvrcboy
Default

whats up guys.....sorry guys to lazy to go back in the pages to see the diff.... whats the diff from rs and the pro rs? plan on getting one to run 13.5 class? thanks for ur help.....
__________________
JOHNSON T
MONTEREYPARK AUTO BODY
MPAB SCOOTER WORKZ
TEAM INTEGY
ABC MINI,M05,M03,CYCLONE TC,XRAY

Last edited by sgvrcboy; 11-18-2009 at 12:09 PM.
sgvrcboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 12:17 PM   #8195
Tech Master
 
yokemad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,150
Default

pro has double the amount fets rs got... 2 boards on top of each other....
And half of the resistance...
handles lower turns motors better
yokemad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 12:23 PM   #8196
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amendola View Post
/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
Like Gadget, I warned that BL technology would see us all with laptops on the pit table, and software interpretation a necessary skill - but was shouted down. I told you so!! There's no way to avoid this without going back to BR.

However, I would point out that the Tekin RS is one of the least expensive speedos, that each of its software updates have been free, and that each of its software updates have been competitive. Compare this to the others, where you'd really be getting the 'blues' if you'd now bought your fourth completely new speedo in two years in order to get the latest software.

Tekin RS is a very good speedo - it would sell well on that alone. That it can be updated for free, and remain competitive, is another good reason to buy one - no wonder it is sold out everywhere! I appreciate your point of view, Greg, but ranting against the Tekin isn't logical, as it is likely to last several seasons. There are other threads for other speedos where your rant would be more appropriate in getting costs reduced.

Oh, and as for winning in motor racing being down to an unfair advantage - no one takes any more or less advantage than the Rules allow, and that's never going to change. Just a thought...
SlowerOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 12:39 PM   #8197
Tech Master
 
VenturaDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ventura, SoCal
Posts: 1,131
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amendola View Post
/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
why only post this in the tekin thread? Do you not relize that almost everyone is making an esc that does the same kind of stuff?
lrp spx
mamba max pro
team wave rb50
crc
novak kinetic
GM

atleast with the tekin people will only have to buy once and get the updates for free. Is it an unfair advantage when all the new esc's have timing advancements?
So just like when people made the switch to brushless they are going to have to make a shift again to keep with the advancements in technology,hopfully they'll pick one that can be updated so they dont have to buy a new one to keep up with the tech. if that never happend we'd still be running sanyo 1200sc nicds and mechanical speed controls
__________________
Dustin Colt45 Aguirre
Kyosho RB6--Futaba--HW--Shuurspeed 17.5
Kyosho SCR--Hitec--Lrp--Yeah 13.5
Durango Dex210--Futaba--Trakpower--Tacon 8.5
VenturaDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 12:40 PM   #8198
Tech Master
 
PitNamedGordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Highwood, IL
Posts: 1,789
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to PitNamedGordie Send a message via Yahoo to PitNamedGordie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amendola View Post
/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
I get want you are ranting about but your frustration is misplaced. The RS is actually the answer to what you are ranting about. With the relatively cheap price and free upgrades it will allow you to keep pace with the ESC of the month club. Just look at the $350 Black Diamond. It doesn't look to be user upgradeable...so if and when that software gets outdated or surpassed...look out...ouch! Also I am sure Tekin is not responsible for less racers.

Unless someone is cheating...I don't think there is such a thing as an unfair advantage...it's just an advantage.
__________________
☆ The Track @ Harbor Hobbies ☆ www.harbor-hobby.net ☆
PitNamedGordie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 01:00 PM   #8199
Company Representative
 
SweepRacingUSA's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: www.SweepRacingUSA.com
Posts: 1,743
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amendola View Post
/Rant on

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I'm not a fan of this ESC at all. I feel it unbalances stock and makes racers upgrade their equipment (perceived or otherwise). Stock is stock, the RS gives has a clear advantage over other ESCs, more of an advantage than ever before based on my experience.

I've already seen stock impacted because of the use fom this ESC, numbers dropping cause folks don't want to go spend money to replace an ESC that should be competitve. Again, remember when we were sold that brushless would equalize the motor advantage in the brushed racing world. Alas, the focus has now shifted to ESC which makes racing no longer equal...what a shame. To me, winning cause of an unfair advantage isn't winning at all...

Rant off/
almost every manufacure have same concept on their top rated ESC's, only diffrence on the RS is I get to defined my adjustment with my 10years old laptop.

some ppl might feel intimidated cause fast guy(tekin users) have lap top on hes pitable and blame that, but after all we spent same amount money and time try to adjust same thing on our ESC, but we go faster because we spent our money in smart way by buying a Tekin RS.

that's my 0.02
SweepRacingUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 01:08 PM   #8200
Tech Elite
 
reenmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,539
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvrcboy View Post
whats up guys.....sorry guys to lazy to go back in the pages to see the diff.... whats the diff from rs and the pro rs? plan on getting one to run 13.5 class? thanks for ur help.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by yokemad View Post
pro has double the amount fets rs got... 2 boards on top of each other....
And half of the resistance...
handles lower turns motors better
That being said, you will see no difference running 13.5. Save your money and get the regular RS unless you're running mod.
__________________
Pete Waydo
2010 Big Fat Turkey Race Mini Cooper AAA Main Champion
*** currently in stasis ***
reenmachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 02:17 PM   #8201
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 649
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

You know what, you guys are right. We should go back to brushed because there wasn't any work or "black magic" that went into a "tuned" "stock" motor. Zapping magnets, balancing arms, new brushes (every run in mod 12th), Countless hours tuning on the dyno cutting (ruining mostly) 30 pair of brushes to find that extra couple of watts. Yeah, I'd be glad to drag out the old Twister lathe and all the extra weight to haul around.

Yeah, lets go back to the days when you had to have 3 or so handout motors to find one good one at Cleveland (motors that weren't used after the race). Yeah, that was cheap. Lets go back to the days when they checked all of the handout motors in order to catch the guys cranking comms. Lets go back to the days of ruining the TV in your hotel room zapping magnets. Lets go back to the days of cutting the comm down to nothing because you were running on a big track. Oh, and my personal fave, lets go back to the days of cutting brushes so that I can cut my throttle finger up on the first practice day of a big race. I really liked cutting brushes all the time.

Yeah, running brushless is so much more complicated and harder to tech. The free updates that we get from Tekin are so much more expensive than the brushes we wasted trying to find that magic shape. Oiling the bearings in a BL motor every couple of months is so much harder than cutting the comm and rebreaking-in the brushes every 1 to 5 runs or so.

And if we are going to go back to brushless I want to go all the way back to ROAR 91's. You remember the old motors like the Parma wet mag motors with stand-up brushes. Yeah, those were the bomb.
Fred_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 02:34 PM   #8202
Tech Master
 
TRXRACER99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,094
Trader Rating: 10 (92%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
You know what, you guys are right. We should go back to brushed because there wasn't any work or "black magic" that went into a "tuned" "stock" motor. Zapping magnets, balancing arms, new brushes (every run in mod 12th), Countless hours tuning on the dyno cutting (ruining mostly) 30 pair of brushes to find that extra couple of watts. Yeah, I'd be glad to drag out the old Twister lathe and all the extra weight to haul around.

Yeah, lets go back to the days when you had to have 3 or so handout motors to find one good one at Cleveland (motors that weren't used after the race). Yeah, that was cheap. Lets go back to the days when they checked all of the handout motors in order to catch the guys cranking comms. Lets go back to the days of ruining the TV in your hotel room zapping magnets. Lets go back to the days of cutting the comm down to nothing because you were running on a big track. Oh, and my personal fave, lets go back to the days of cutting brushes so that I can cut my throttle finger up on the first practice day of a big race. I really liked cutting brushes all the time.

Yeah, running brushless is so much more complicated and harder to tech. The free updates that we get from Tekin are so much more expensive than the brushes we wasted trying to find that magic shape. Oiling the bearings in a BL motor every couple of months is so much harder than cutting the comm and rebreaking-in the brushes every 1 to 5 runs or so.

And if we are going to go back to brushless I want to go all the way back to ROAR 91's. You remember the old motors like the Parma wet mag motors with stand-up brushes. Yeah, those were the bomb.
rather not
TRXRACER99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 02:35 PM   #8203
Super Moderator
 
Kraig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 6,493
Trader Rating: 71 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
You know what, you guys are right. We should go back to brushed because there wasn't any work or "black magic" that went into a "tuned" "stock" motor. Zapping magnets, balancing arms, new brushes (every run in mod 12th), Countless hours tuning on the dyno cutting (ruining mostly) 30 pair of brushes to find that extra couple of watts. Yeah, I'd be glad to drag out the old Twister lathe and all the extra weight to haul around.

Yeah, lets go back to the days when you had to have 3 or so handout motors to find one good one at Cleveland (motors that weren't used after the race). Yeah, that was cheap. Lets go back to the days when they checked all of the handout motors in order to catch the guys cranking comms. Lets go back to the days of ruining the TV in your hotel room zapping magnets. Lets go back to the days of cutting the comm down to nothing because you were running on a big track. Oh, and my personal fave, lets go back to the days of cutting brushes so that I can cut my throttle finger up on the first practice day of a big race. I really liked cutting brushes all the time.

Yeah, running brushless is so much more complicated and harder to tech. The free updates that we get from Tekin are so much more expensive than the brushes we wasted trying to find that magic shape. Oiling the bearings in a BL motor every couple of months is so much harder than cutting the comm and rebreaking-in the brushes every 1 to 5 runs or so.

And if we are going to go back to brushless I want to go all the way back to ROAR 91's. You remember the old motors like the Parma wet mag motors with stand-up brushes. Yeah, those were the bomb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRXRACER99 View Post
rather not
I sense sarcasm.
__________________
There is great need for a sarcasm font.

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

Sometimes I post just to look at my avatar.
Kraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 02:35 PM   #8204
Tech Master
 
whynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,481
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

I am getting back into racing because of the bl motors and lipo's it just seemed like so much work before,always soldering,charging,discharging,cutting comms.
whynot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 02:38 PM   #8205
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
You know what, you guys are right. We should go back to brushed because there wasn't any work or "black magic" that went into a "tuned" "stock" motor. Zapping magnets, balancing arms, new brushes (every run in mod 12th), Countless hours tuning on the dyno cutting (ruining mostly) 30 pair of brushes to find that extra couple of watts. Yeah, I'd be glad to drag out the old Twister lathe and all the extra weight to haul around.

Yeah, lets go back to the days when you had to have 3 or so handout motors to find one good one at Cleveland (motors that weren't used after the race). Yeah, that was cheap. Lets go back to the days when they checked all of the handout motors in order to catch the guys cranking comms. Lets go back to the days of ruining the TV in your hotel room zapping magnets. Lets go back to the days of cutting the comm down to nothing because you were running on a big track. Oh, and my personal fave, lets go back to the days of cutting brushes so that I can cut my throttle finger up on the first practice day of a big race. I really liked cutting brushes all the time.

Yeah, running brushless is so much more complicated and harder to tech. The free updates that we get from Tekin are so much more expensive than the brushes we wasted trying to find that magic shape. Oiling the bearings in a BL motor every couple of months is so much harder than cutting the comm and rebreaking-in the brushes every 1 to 5 runs or so.

And if we are going to go back to brushless I want to go all the way back to ROAR 91's. You remember the old motors like the Parma wet mag motors with stand-up brushes. Yeah, those were the bomb.
Brushes were $1.99 to 3.99 a pair

Laptop=LATHE
rotor tester=MAGNET ZAPPER

Weak rotor replacement= $30, bad brushed arm $15
Poor quality can windings= $50, Weak brushed can $25
Totally bad BL motor= $80, 3 handout motors $75

Yeah the horrible expense of brushes and the "black art" of motor tuning

Noone was suggesting that we return to brushed, just that it had been pointed out before the change over that it wasn't gonna level the playing field like many had claimed.

I've done both and both have their disadvantages/advantages, and noone was really proposing we return to brushed. In the end it's pretty much the same. I didn't spend any less racing the Halloween Classic this year than I did in the days of brushed motors, nor did I spend any less time looking for horsepower. Now we just do it differently.

Next up: How Lipo has ended the battery wars
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tekin Redline RS Sensored ESC and motors, opinions for offroad? Cain Electric Off-Road 4230 06-07-2015 04:38 PM
Sensored vs. Sensorless lemansracer Electric On-Road 71 02-14-2009 03:19 AM
New Tekin Redline Sensored Motors are Roar Legal! Randy_Pike Electric On-Road 3 08-05-2008 02:08 AM
Tekin Redline Sensored 10.5 HUCKMAN Electric On-Road 6 07-15-2008 08:50 PM
sensored vs sensorless bprocket Rookie Zone 5 05-16-2008 09:38 AM


Tags
v203, vegas 2.0


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:26 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net