Tekin RS ESC sensored
11-03-2009, 03:54 AM
#7951
Tech Master
All the speedo's that are out there at the moment are all very close to each other. Only the SPX will lose ground because you can't update the speedo.
The only difference is the way you gear it. so each speedo has his own way of making the motor faster.
The only difference is the way you gear it. so each speedo has his own way of making the motor faster.
11-03-2009, 06:31 AM
#7952
The help we, the public at large (non pro drivers) expect from the people making these systems is to perhaps tell us where to start with tunning the system (i.e. what to adjust first). I understand these systems accept more than just one solution but perhaps a more in depth explanation of how they work would help us (I think that would help me at least).
11-03-2009, 07:17 AM
#7953
Tech Master
I just tried every thing and after a wile you now to learns the different settings with the different motors.
Also some tricks to get more top speed without loosing infield speed.
The only thing you need is guts to gear it light. this counts not for all the motors but for the Tekin motors, go light.
Not just 1 or 2 pinions but ad least 3 to even 4 or 5.
When you gear light, you can ad a bit more boost for a bit more top speed if you come to short.
The most important thing is the Turbo delay. Don't try to get it as low as possible.
You only lose infield power or use a very low Boost and motor timing, than you can lower the Turbo delay.
0,7 to 0,9 Turbo delay I use the most.
11-03-2009, 07:44 AM
#7954
In the beginning this was also my problem but after a wile you get to now it better and better.
I just tried every thing and after a wile you now to learns the different settings with the different motors.
Also some tricks to get more top speed without loosing infield speed.
The only thing you need is guts to gear it light. this counts not for all the motors but for the Tekin motors, go light.
Not just 1 or 2 pinions but ad least 3 to even 4 or 5.
When you gear light, you can ad a bit more boost for a bit more top speed if you come to short.
[...]
I just tried every thing and after a wile you now to learns the different settings with the different motors.
Also some tricks to get more top speed without loosing infield speed.
The only thing you need is guts to gear it light. this counts not for all the motors but for the Tekin motors, go light.
Not just 1 or 2 pinions but ad least 3 to even 4 or 5.
When you gear light, you can ad a bit more boost for a bit more top speed if you come to short.
[...]
Gearing light didn't work for me either. The car was just slow. I started from a very light gearing and I went up to gain some speed. As I said, I am quite happy with the car now, but don't think I would be able to do it easily if I changed track or class (different wind motor).
What I would like to be able to do is figure out a procedure to follow when faced with such changes. Sure, one could come back and pester people here or at the track, but that's not the way to do it. I would like to understand how the ESC works and then logic would help a lot more people like me who think for themselves.
Last edited by niznai; 11-03-2009 at 07:50 PM.
11-03-2009, 07:52 AM
#7956
Hi Guys
Between V198 and V200 Which one gives better balanced infield punch and Top end?
Because Top Tekin driver was using v198&45 max timing advance on Sunday and we were struggling to find that missing infield power-Punch with V200 Vegas
Best regards
P.S I use Ko Helios with Spektrum Module and Rx with no issues ...
Between V198 and V200 Which one gives better balanced infield punch and Top end?
Because Top Tekin driver was using v198&45 max timing advance on Sunday and we were struggling to find that missing infield power-Punch with V200 Vegas
Best regards
P.S I use Ko Helios with Spektrum Module and Rx with no issues ...
11-03-2009, 08:17 AM
#7957
Tech Master
That is the problem I was trying to suggest exists between pros and amateurs like me. I don't have a number of motors to play with or a number of tracks to test on. The only thing left is comparison with other systems/motors/ESCs which at my track are few.
Gearing light didn't work for me either. The car was just slow. I started from a very light gearing and I went up to gain some speed. As I said, now I am quite happy with the car now, but don't think I would be able to do it easily if I chnaged track or class (different wind motor).
What I would like to be able to do is figure out a procedure to follow when faced with such changes. Sure, one could come back and pester people here or at the track, but that's not the way to do it. I would like to understand how the ESC works and then logic would help a lot more people like me who think for themselves.
Gearing light didn't work for me either. The car was just slow. I started from a very light gearing and I went up to gain some speed. As I said, now I am quite happy with the car now, but don't think I would be able to do it easily if I chnaged track or class (different wind motor).
What I would like to be able to do is figure out a procedure to follow when faced with such changes. Sure, one could come back and pester people here or at the track, but that's not the way to do it. I would like to understand how the ESC works and then logic would help a lot more people like me who think for themselves.
The best is just to have one motor because than you now if you must gear him light or not to light.
The speedpassion for instance must be geared a lot heavier than the Tekin motor and the gearing is about the same as the SPX with the same motor.
Here is how I start with my Tekin 10,5T motor.
I always start with a basic setup.
Boost 15
Turbo Max
Turbo delay 0,8 (most of the time)
Motor on 10 to 12.
Than I gear light. Just 0,5FDR or even more lighter than the SPX users.
Than I just drive for about 3 mints and check the temp and see what the top speed is and the acceleration.
When I have a lot of infield speed but come top speed to short and the motor is cool I can do 2 things.
1. Ad some Boost
2. Gear heavier.
When I come infield speed to short and the top speed is one of the highest I gear lighter and I lower my motor timing a bit.
Some times also my Boost but with the Tekin motor my Boost is around 15 to 20.
So when you set it about 1 sec it takes 1 sec after you reached full throttle that it ads Turbo.
The Turbo delay is not different on what track you are but on the motor timing and Boost you use.
With a low motor timing and a low Boost you can set the Turbo delay lower.
Personally I love a higher Turbo delay because i love light gearing and some more Boost.
Best to now what your best Turbo delay is, is by setting the Turbo to 0.
Than set your car right for the infield. When you have don that, you look at the straight. Look ad when you reached the top speed and at that moment you want to get the Turbo coming in.
As it comes in earlier, you lose infield speed and your motor gets hotter.
Best is when you are not shore if you set the Turbo delay to low, to set it high and see if it comes in after you reached the top speed. you see it stop accelerating and than again accelerate.
Than you lower it a bit.
When you have it to low you see the car accelerate, than hold in and than accelerate again. Than your Turbo delay is to low.
11-03-2009, 08:35 AM
#7958
What I would like to know is if the boost is ramping up the timing as the motor revs up or it is added full on all the time. Or is it added full on at a certain motor rpm.
Likewise with the turbo.
About the turbo it is not clear yet to me if it is more timing or not because common sense would suggest timing can not be added ad infinitum.
As far as I have figured it out, the turbo function can be more timing (which as I said above am not sure it is possible) or an electronic trick that would lower the final control transistors' on-resistance all of a sudden (as if you added more transistors alongside for instance). There may be other possibilities to do it that I am not aware of (perhaps changing the drive frequency?), but this is the general question.
11-03-2009, 08:56 AM
#7959
Tech Master
That requires you have a SPX driver on hand to ask.
What I would like to know is if the boost is ramping up the timing as the motor revs up or it is added full on all the time. Or is it added full on at a certain motor rpm.
Likewise with the turbo.
About the turbo it is not clear yet to me if it is more timing or not because common sense would suggest timing can not be added ad infinitum.
As far as I have figured it out, the turbo function can be more timing (which as I said above am not sure it is possible) or an electronic trick that would lower the final control transistors' on-resistance all of a sudden (as if you added more transistors alongside for instance). There may be other possibilities to do it that I am not aware of (perhaps changing the drive frequency?), but this is the general question.
What I would like to know is if the boost is ramping up the timing as the motor revs up or it is added full on all the time. Or is it added full on at a certain motor rpm.
Likewise with the turbo.
About the turbo it is not clear yet to me if it is more timing or not because common sense would suggest timing can not be added ad infinitum.
As far as I have figured it out, the turbo function can be more timing (which as I said above am not sure it is possible) or an electronic trick that would lower the final control transistors' on-resistance all of a sudden (as if you added more transistors alongside for instance). There may be other possibilities to do it that I am not aware of (perhaps changing the drive frequency?), but this is the general question.
The Turbo comes in ad the time you set after you reached full throttle.
It ads more timing but it does it on an other way than the Boost and because it comes in later, the motor can handle the power.
How it works I don't now and Randy will not tell you. Tekins secret Turbo.
on what track are you driving now and what is your setup?
Witch motor do you use and how many turns?
11-03-2009, 09:50 AM
#7960
We effectively have a 3 speed tranny. Instead of changing the gearing we are changing the rpms of the motor. As we add timing to increase rpms we loose torque. So we use lower timing during the launch where we need torque and add more timing as we accelerate and shift to second gear, and even more timing at top speed where the toque load is low and we want the extra rpms. If you add too much timing too soon it is like shifting half way up the tach in a real car only instead of bogging we just pull the power to get it done and make a lot of heat due to the inefficiency.
The heat effects are exponential as you pass the sweet spot. A few degrees of timing or turbo kicking in barely too soon can cause temps to increase significantly, but go fast for the first few minutes.
Motor Timing: Launch
Motor timing is an absolute. It’s effective throughout the entire range of the cars speed. This is the adjustment that should be made for the first few feet of car travel. It should not be forgotten in the “overall” timing calculation. Less motor timing gives you more torque and less rpm, more motor timing gives less torque and more rpm. With the additional advantages of mechanical gearing we can get a little of both worlds The additional timing we add above the motor timing as the motor spools up allows us to get the rpms for top speed without losing the extra torque at low speeds.
Timing Boost: Acceleration
Timing boost occurs after the car has travelled a short distance and has met a certain rpm. This setting should be adjusted for use in the infield sections and the majority of the track. This is along with motor timing is your midrange setting. This is a very critical setup as it can determine how much speed is carried onto the straight away, how much punch you have in the infield sections, etc.
Overall Timing Calculation: Motor Timing + Timing Boost = Overall timing
For the majority of spec motor racing you don’t want to exceed 30 degrees of overall timing. Spinning the motor to the highest limits is not the best answer for lap times. Remember that we race r/c cars, not dynos! Set your cars up to get the best lap times!
Timing boost is the acceleration
Turbo Timing: Top speed
Turbo timing is timing on top of Motor Timing and Turbo Timing. This is effectively used on longer straight away sections where lower gearing and timing settings that give you the edge for the infield sections isn’t the ideal setting for the straight away. This gives you the best of both worlds. You have a fast car/setup for the infield sections but will not give up the top speed on the longer sections. The optimal time for the turbo timing to come on is the apex or 10-20 feet past the apex leading onto the straight away.
Ideally you want your car to begin spooling out a bit, but not flattening out the acceleration curve. Imagine a real car; you’d want turbo to come on right where you’d be shifting into 2nd gear. If this comes on too soon, motor damage can be the result it just creates a lot of heat. This will show up initially as motor heat, cogging (should never cog in any condition, slow or hot maybe but never actually run rough. Then again if timing is advanced to the point of actually being in the next phase and we are not rotating fast enough to coast thru it we could be rough. I still hate to even say that term), etc.
Ideal Setups:
There isn’t a “magic” setup for any motor or wind. Each track, each driver and each setup will differ slightly. I recommend setting up your cars Motor and Timing Boost along with gearing for the infield sections initially. Then once you’ve gotten that setup correctly and lap times in those sections are on then you move forward with Turbo Timing. Delay is critical. Too soon will get you excessive motor heat, too late and the car will stop accelerating efficiently.
The heat effects are exponential as you pass the sweet spot. A few degrees of timing or turbo kicking in barely too soon can cause temps to increase significantly, but go fast for the first few minutes.
Motor Timing: Launch
Motor timing is an absolute. It’s effective throughout the entire range of the cars speed. This is the adjustment that should be made for the first few feet of car travel. It should not be forgotten in the “overall” timing calculation. Less motor timing gives you more torque and less rpm, more motor timing gives less torque and more rpm. With the additional advantages of mechanical gearing we can get a little of both worlds The additional timing we add above the motor timing as the motor spools up allows us to get the rpms for top speed without losing the extra torque at low speeds.
Timing Boost: Acceleration
Timing boost occurs after the car has travelled a short distance and has met a certain rpm. This setting should be adjusted for use in the infield sections and the majority of the track. This is along with motor timing is your midrange setting. This is a very critical setup as it can determine how much speed is carried onto the straight away, how much punch you have in the infield sections, etc.
Overall Timing Calculation: Motor Timing + Timing Boost = Overall timing
For the majority of spec motor racing you don’t want to exceed 30 degrees of overall timing. Spinning the motor to the highest limits is not the best answer for lap times. Remember that we race r/c cars, not dynos! Set your cars up to get the best lap times!
Timing boost is the acceleration
Turbo Timing: Top speed
Turbo timing is timing on top of Motor Timing and Turbo Timing. This is effectively used on longer straight away sections where lower gearing and timing settings that give you the edge for the infield sections isn’t the ideal setting for the straight away. This gives you the best of both worlds. You have a fast car/setup for the infield sections but will not give up the top speed on the longer sections. The optimal time for the turbo timing to come on is the apex or 10-20 feet past the apex leading onto the straight away.
Ideally you want your car to begin spooling out a bit, but not flattening out the acceleration curve. Imagine a real car; you’d want turbo to come on right where you’d be shifting into 2nd gear. If this comes on too soon, motor damage can be the result it just creates a lot of heat. This will show up initially as motor heat, cogging (should never cog in any condition, slow or hot maybe but never actually run rough. Then again if timing is advanced to the point of actually being in the next phase and we are not rotating fast enough to coast thru it we could be rough. I still hate to even say that term), etc.
Ideal Setups:
There isn’t a “magic” setup for any motor or wind. Each track, each driver and each setup will differ slightly. I recommend setting up your cars Motor and Timing Boost along with gearing for the infield sections initially. Then once you’ve gotten that setup correctly and lap times in those sections are on then you move forward with Turbo Timing. Delay is critical. Too soon will get you excessive motor heat, too late and the car will stop accelerating efficiently.
11-03-2009, 12:32 PM
#7962
Wow, that was a really great explanation of how everything works Randy. That will help out tremendously.
11-03-2009, 12:33 PM
#7963
the delay is how long you hold full throttle before turbo boost kicks in
11-03-2009, 12:56 PM
#7964
Hey Iam just getting into Tc racing and was hoping someone could help me out. I was looking at the Tekin RS Pro and the Tekin RS as a rooky to TC is there a big difference between the two or a difference as a rooky that I would never know the difference.The class I will be running is 17.5 and I have a TC5R. Thanks for any help you can give.
Rob
Rob
11-03-2009, 12:59 PM
#7965
Tech Adept
Rob, RS Pro and RS are the same with one difference: RS Pro has no motor limit, RS is limited to 5,5T motor. Therefore RS is a few grams lighter.