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Old 08-27-2009, 09:45 AM   #6541
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What is the "set RPM" value? Or is it "set" depending on other variables too (such as amp draw)?
The "set RPM" is a pretty low rpm so unless you come to a complete stop you will be in the "boost band" the while time. Motor timing is pretty much in charge of the launch off the start for the first 3-5 feet or so.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:55 AM   #6542
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"not every motor is going to be exactly like the next" is reason enough for Tekin to not publish those figures i guess, since having lawsuits there are as common as road cones...
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:57 AM   #6543
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"not every motor is going to be exactly like the next" is reason enough for Tekin to not publish those figures i guess, since having lawsuits there are as common as road cones...
mhm. Plus with all the variables with motor timing, boost, and turbo there is no common curve.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:11 AM   #6544
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mhm. Plus with all the variables with motor timing, boost, and turbo there is no common curve.
Which makes me wonder when we will be able to set our own timing curve. It seems like everything is there to do it. All you need to know is RPM and TP(throttle position). The PC interface is there, we just need the software. Boost just seems to be so much timing at so much RPM, more like an on and off switch for timing. But Turbo, there is an obvious curve. So the ability to put a timing curve is there. I just wonder if the RS is capable of having a fully tunable timing curve.

Sure, it is probably too much time and work for each motor and the end result advantage could be minimal, but I would really like to be able to do it. If power is not gained(which I doubt), I am pretty sure at the least more heat can be reduced.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:13 AM   #6545
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"not every motor is going to be exactly like the next" is reason enough for Tekin to not publish those figures i guess, since having lawsuits there are as common as road cones...
Is that a real possibility? In Australia they would laugh at you with such whimsical case. After all they dynoed a Mustang recently on Top Gear and instead of the claimed 450BHP it only had 400. So I imagine you could sue Ford for that?

I envisaged a generic curve at least (like you see on Tamiya's black ca or other motors' boxes for instance, only a bit more explicit. That one is quite hopelss since it doesn't give voltage, so you can't work anything out of it).

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mhm. Plus with all the variables with motor timing, boost, and turbo there is no common curve.
That I realised was a factor. Not sure how to get past it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:48 AM   #6546
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Maybe just set motor timing at 10*, turn everything else off on the speedo and do a pull on 5 random motors. Then do a +/- 5* test. I'm just looking for the box to stay in to be defined so I'm not tearing up motors is all. I really like what I'm seeing, but I can't wrap my head around the results. This isn't last years Novak at all!
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:49 AM   #6547
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"not every motor is going to be exactly like the next" is reason enough for Tekin to not publish those figures i guess, since having lawsuits there are as common as road cones...
But seeing they are spec, some pattern should evolve if the test is the same with random motors chosen.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:19 PM   #6548
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Maybe just set motor timing at 10*, turn everything else off on the speedo and do a pull on 5 random motors. Then do a +/- 5* test. I'm just looking for the box to stay in to be defined so I'm not tearing up motors is all. I really like what I'm seeing, but I can't wrap my head around the results. This isn't last years Novak at all!
You know now with ESC's being a much bigger factor in how your car is set up than the old days (brushed), and with being able to adjust physical motor timing...I think you are gonna have to go with feel more so than a standard guideline based on dyno numbers. In the early days of brushless when everything was Novak GTB's and Novak motors my gearing was around 3.9 - 4.0. Then with the Tekin RS I ranged from 4.2 to 4.4. And now with the new software I'm around 4.7. And this can and will change based on the motors you use. So I guess what I'm getting at is it's less about dynoing the motors and it's more about what the ESC is going to do to your motors that matters.

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But seeing they are spec, some pattern should evolve if the test is the same with random motors chosen.
I don't want to start a debate about spec racing but with the current crop of top of the line ESC's the only thing that is spec is how the motors are built. With the additional features and programming available, spec is no longer truly spec.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:29 PM   #6549
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You know now with ESC's being a much bigger factor in how your car is set up than the old days (brushed), and with being able to adjust physical motor timing...I think you are gonna have to go with feel more so than a standard guideline based on dyno numbers. In the early days of brushless when everything was Novak GTB's and Novak motors my gearing was around 3.9 - 4.0. Then with the Tekin RS I ranged from 4.2 to 4.4. And now with the new software I'm around 4.7. And this can and will change based on the motors you use. So I guess what I'm getting at is it's less about dynoing the motors and it's more about what the ESC is going to do to your motors that matters.



I don't want to start a debate about spec racing but with the current crop of top of the line ESC's the only thing that is spec is how the motors are built. With the additional features and programming available, spec is no longer truly spec.

You're right on both counts. Its such a big box! I'm going to need days to test and take lots of notes. I ran into a situation where someone tried to get me to do the old school GTB method with the RS and all I got was slower and hotter. I'll get this all figured out sooner or later. I guess this is the bleeding edge after all.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:00 PM   #6550
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I see.

Well, now I have it installed in my speedy. What should I be looking out for?

I have the same setting as before

no drag brakes
full brake power
no reverse
throttle profile 3
brushless (sensored mode, of course)
3V cutoff
10 timing boost (12 on motor)

plus

Turbo at 10 and .5s delay.

you may want to check this 3v thing out bcuz you only want to run that at 3v if you are running a single cell. 1s lipo. if your running a 7.4v pak you need to change this, or risk destroying your battery and or car
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:49 PM   #6551
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is 20 degrees of timing too much on a speedpassion 13.5 fixed endbell
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:54 PM   #6552
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is 20 degrees of timing too much on a speedpassion 13.5 fixed endbell
No. It depends on the track. I used with the Speedpassion 10,5 a Boost of 18 to even 28.
28 was without the Turbo.
Last race I used 18 Boost and Turbo MAX with the Speedpassion.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:00 PM   #6553
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No. It depends on the track. I used with the Speedpassion 10,5 a Boost of 18 to even 28.
28 was without the Turbo.
Last race I used 18 Boost and Turbo MAX with the Speedpassion.
thanks my boost is also set the max , I will running a big track this weekend whats a good starting FDR for 13-5 and 10-5
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:25 PM   #6554
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thanks my boost is also set the max , I will running a big track this weekend whats a good starting FDR for 13-5 and 10-5
what do you call a big track.
I drive on a track that has a straight of 130 Feet.
I geared my car 5,4FDR when the straight is longer you can gear a bit heavier.
This is with 5 cell.
So if you have a straight that is around 130 Feet gear it around the 6FDR or lighter.
Just watch the motor temp.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:40 PM   #6555
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We "could" do motor dyno runs, efficiency etc. My PERSONAL opinion on this is that right now we have more than enough battery for any situation out there. We're not dumping or running out of battery power. Running high timing is NEVER efficient, you should see some of the current jumps you get by just going up 10 degrees!

Dyno ran motors can do one thing in my opinion, then can "help" find the right gear for that motor. However if we change the timing on this motor we then change the power that motor makes. SO now dyno'ing motors seems to only show which motor makes more watts at a given setting.

Sometimes a high rpm setup/motor that makes good efficiency but has low watts when geared right will have an overall faster run vs. a motor with gobs of torque but no spool out. Theoretically you "should" be able to gear them to work identical but that often doesn't happen.

I tease the dyno junkies in my area: "We don't race dynos, we race r/c cars"

It does have a purpose though as it does test motor vs motor.
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