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Old 06-23-2009, 03:20 AM   #4441
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I found a fix for the drag brake issue.

found a 194 update, and installed that over my latest update.

set drag brake to 100 on hotwire. Drag brake actually locked up the wheels.

So I went to adjust the drag brake manually on the speedo to reduce it to the about 6-7 leds, and it was crap. Then adjusted on the speedo to the max led, and it was very bad also.

re-updated the RS with 194 again, adjust drag brake with hotwire, and...bingo, fantastic drag brake again.

So bottom line is, decent drag brake works only if you adjust the setting with the hotwire.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:50 AM   #4442
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Try maxing out your brakes in hotwire then adjust drag brake and see if it is still weak. On mine with the brakes maxed in hotwire I still get good drag brake when adjusting on the ESC.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:30 AM   #4443
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yes brake was maxed on hotwire when I adjusted drag brake on RS
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:41 AM   #4444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
(1) This response seems to be a reasonable example of someone who indicates that they have brakes with the TEKIN RS PRO. However, as the author indicates it is on a small track.

(2) I dont think there is any argument that the TEKIN RS PRO works at SLOWER speeds (small tracks, or whatever). As mentioned in my original post, the car brakes ok at about 60% of race speed. So lets NOT debate that the RS PRO brakes at slower speeds.

(3) The problem is HIGH speed braking, which is obviously more noticeable on large flowing tracks. Using the TEKIN 10.5 with boost, the car is almost as fast as the modified guys, but the FDR is quite different. I can assure everyone that the car just rolls, the wheels are not even remotely close to locking up. Other TEKIN RS PRO drivers at my track, and on this forum, report the same braking issue under similar racing conditions.

(4) Hopefully it can be fixed in firmware, and does not require a hardware modification.

Cheers
I drive also on high speed tracks. Very high speed tracks and the brakes work great. I think it's what Randy says a setting in your transmitter.
I hath some problems that i lost throttle or it stayed in throttle. After changing my EPA, recalibrate the speedo with the radio and changing back the EPA my problems were gone. All the problems i hath.

Here is my setup for my home track.
Drag Brake = 0
Brake strength = 70
Neutral width =10
Throttle Profile = 5
Timing Boost = 18

Motor that i use is a Tekin 10,5T
Timing on the motor 12
5 cell.
6,3FDR for a track the size of a handball field.
About 40m long straight.

I have a great top speed and the best acceleration.
Last race i was in booth the fastest.
Wasn't my home track but my car was the fastest in the infield and the straight.
Used than 4 timing on the motor and max boost.
I think that i was even faster as i used what i use now.w.

Maybe i must gear 1 pinion heavier but that will i now tomorrow.
This Sunday i go to a track were i will test with my speedpassion motor.
That's a big track and the speedpassion motor is used in the national champion chip.
That is a big track. Almost everything full throttle. 1 place braking and the rest is almost full throttle.
I drove there already and i hath enough braking power.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:45 AM   #4445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker View Post
I found a fix for the drag brake issue.

found a 194 update, and installed that over my latest update.

set drag brake to 100 on hotwire. Drag brake actually locked up the wheels.

So I went to adjust the drag brake manually on the speedo to reduce it to the about 6-7 leds, and it was crap. Then adjusted on the speedo to the max led, and it was very bad also.

re-updated the RS with 194 again, adjust drag brake with hotwire, and...bingo, fantastic drag brake again.

So bottom line is, decent drag brake works only if you adjust the setting with the hotwire.
I do all of my settings with the hotwire.
Works easy. I have always a laptop with me so that's why is do it like that.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:49 AM   #4446
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Why are all you guys using brakes? Is this modified racing or something?
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:54 AM   #4447
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on mine it doesnt matter if i use the hotwire or esc to change settings the brakes is just weak at speed.
I recalibrated esc a few times and rebind the Spektrum as well as reduce my end points and increase them.
Only difference is i get a bit better brakes with 40-50% drag brakes but only on the slower corners.
Our back straight is about 40 meters long and our middle straight is a bit longer.
coming from full speed to the hairpins is where i am having the hassle.
all the slower sections the brakes is ok.

In the pic we run the shorter orange layout for 13.5

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Old 06-23-2009, 06:55 AM   #4448
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Default High Speed Braking Issue (RS PRO +10.5 BL + high speed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikky32 View Post
I drive also on high speed tracks. Very high speed tracks and the brakes work great. I think it's what Randy says a setting in your transmitter.
I hath some problems that i lost throttle or it stayed in throttle. After changing my EPA, recalibrate the speedo with the radio and changing back the EPA my problems were gone. All the problems i hath.

Here is my setup for my home track.
Drag Brake = 0
Brake strength = 70
Neutral width =10
Throttle Profile = 5
Timing Boost = 18

Motor that i use is a Tekin 10,5T
Timing on the motor 12
5 cell.
6,3FDR for a track the size of a handball field.
About 40m long straight.

I have a great top speed and the best acceleration.
Last race i was in booth the fastest.
Wasn't my home track but my car was the fastest in the infield and the straight.
Used than 4 timing on the motor and max boost.
I think that i was even faster as i used what i use now.w.

Maybe i must gear 1 pinion heavier but that will i now tomorrow.
This Sunday i go to a track were i will test with my speedpassion motor.
That's a big track and the speedpassion motor is used in the national champion chip.
That is a big track. Almost everything full throttle. 1 place braking and the rest is almost full throttle.
I drove there already and i hath enough braking power.
Randy,

Some comments on the above track & setup data which you may find interesting in your investigations.

(1) Above, main straight is 40m (about 120 feet).
My track, has about 210 foot straight.
Note: My track, total length about 1000 feet (305m).

(2) Above FDR is 6.3
My track, non-TEKIN RS PRO drivers, using FDR about 4 to 4.5-ish.
My track, with TEKIN RS PRO, I'm using FDR about 5.1, to achieve about the same top end speed.

(3) Above, using 5 cell
My track, everyone uses 2 cell LiPos.

(4) Above, Brake=70
My setup, Brake=100.

(5) Above, Motor=12 & Boost=18
My setup, Motor=6 & Boost=24 (1st race meet)
My setup, Motor=0 & Boost=29 (2nd race meet).

(6) I think its getting obvious that different groups of people are going to have quite a different definition of subjective terms like "small", "medium" & "large". Therefore, we should all disclose real data, rather than subjective terms.

Hope this identifies some differences for your consideration.

Cheers
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:39 AM   #4449
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just to add a data point regarding brakes, in case it helps.

I'm using a futaba 3PK/fasst, 17.5, 2s lipo, 4.4 FDR, rubber tire touring car with front spool; RS Pro with 198 firmware, sensor only, ~ 25 neutral width, no reverse, 0 mechanical timing on motor (trinity pulse), ~ 20 in the speedo. I haven't touched the throttle profile or the sensorless timing. Drag brake is around 40. amp limiter disabled, lipo cutoff disabled.

My brakes when set to 100 via hotwire are simply too strong, the car will not turn AT ALL under full brakes and it stops very aggressively. I tend to run the brakes around 94-96 on the hotwire and then they are controllable (still some steering available under full brakeS) and they still work very strong.

I also have an brand Orange 13.5 SS, and the braking is just as strong on that motor.

I wonder if any of the timing settings (perhaps the sensorless timing, which I have not changed) has any effect on brake strength?
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:08 AM   #4450
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Can someone please answer this question? I am ready to make a purchase and need to know asap. Does this braking problem happen with the regular RS, or is it only a problem with the RS Pro? Plan on putting one in an F104 and will definitly need late braking.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:24 AM   #4451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
just to add a data point regarding brakes, in case it helps.

I'm using a futaba 3PK/fasst, 17.5, 2s lipo, 4.4 FDR, rubber tire touring car with front spool; RS Pro with 198 firmware, sensor only, ~ 25 neutral width, no reverse, 0 mechanical timing on motor (trinity pulse), ~ 20 in the speedo. I haven't touched the throttle profile or the sensorless timing. Drag brake is around 40. amp limiter disabled, lipo cutoff disabled.

My brakes when set to 100 via hotwire are simply too strong, the car will not turn AT ALL under full brakes and it stops very aggressively. I tend to run the brakes around 94-96 on the hotwire and then they are controllable (still some steering available under full brakeS) and they still work very strong.

I also have an brand Orange 13.5 SS, and the braking is just as strong on that motor.

I wonder if any of the timing settings (perhaps the sensorless timing, which I have not changed) has any effect on brake strength?
Can you please provide more details on:
-- the main straight track length
-- track length prior to the corner(s) requiring lots of braking (if any)

Track length (& therefore top speed) before a hairpin, or tight S corner, is part of the key to this issue. Some tracks don't have these challenges and therefore do not require hard braking; in this case, the RS PRO + 10.5 (13.5) BL doesn't get stressed from a braking perspective.

Cheers
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:27 AM   #4452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
Randy,

Some comments on the above track & setup data which you may find interesting in your investigations.

(1) Above, main straight is 40m (about 120 feet).
My track, has about 210 foot straight.
Note: My track, total length about 1000 feet (305m).

(2) Above FDR is 6.3
My track, non-TEKIN RS PRO drivers, using FDR about 4 to 4.5-ish.
My track, with TEKIN RS PRO, I'm using FDR about 5.1, to achieve about the same top end speed.

(3) Above, using 5 cell
My track, everyone uses 2 cell LiPos.

(4) Above, Brake=70
My setup, Brake=100.

(5) Above, Motor=12 & Boost=18
My setup, Motor=6 & Boost=24 (1st race meet)
My setup, Motor=0 & Boost=29 (2nd race meet).

(6) I think its getting obvious that different groups of people are going to have quite a different definition of subjective terms like "small", "medium" & "large". Therefore, we should all disclose real data, rather than subjective terms.

Hope this identifies some differences for your consideration.

Cheers
This is the setup with the Turbo on it.
I used the Turbo on the max.
Normally i drive with this motor 5,12FDR on the same track.
I will use about 4,5 tot 5FDR on the bigger tracks with the Turbo on max.
I will test it again this Sunday.

The track were i drive this Sunday has a bigger straight. I don't now the size but it's a lot bigger than my home track. I think 3 times the length that i can go full throttle.
I used there also 70 on the brake. I only need it in one corner but normally i never brake.
Some drivers brake on my home track but i have never used there my brake.
Just run an other line and it was even faster than using the brakes.
I use a Tekin motor. It runs better with a light gearing. With the speedpassion i will use about 4,5FDR or even lower. I must try that this Sunday.

The 210 Foot is still a small straight out here. MACH is a lot bigger.
And we drive with 5 cell and a 10,5T almost as fast as a 13,5T Lipo.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:30 AM   #4453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Why are all you guys using brakes? Is this modified racing or something?
you got that backwards, people tend to use brakes in stock/prostock and not in mod
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:44 AM   #4454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_dono View Post
you got that backwards, people tend to use brakes in stock/prostock and not in mod
Unless there is a sharp 180 on the track I never use brakes in stock and even then its just enough to slow the car down slightly. I don't really need strong brakes. Im just surprised people are looking for such strong drag brake or brakes in general. Seems like you would lose a lot of speed (and increase the motor temp).
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:50 AM   #4455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razzor View Post
on mine it doesnt matter if i use the hotwire or esc to change settings the brakes is just weak at speed.
I recalibrated esc a few times and rebind the Spektrum as well as reduce my end points and increase them.
Only difference is i get a bit better brakes with 40-50% drag brakes but only on the slower corners.
Our back straight is about 40 meters long and our middle straight is a bit longer.
coming from full speed to the hairpins is where i am having the hassle.
all the slower sections the brakes is ok.

In the pic we run the shorter orange layout for 13.5

Nice track but were are you using the brakes? (Except the 180 corner)
And why drag brake?
Looks like a smooth track.
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Last edited by mikky32; 06-23-2009 at 09:01 AM.
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