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Old 06-11-2008, 07:56 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Did you get more RS's in? I was sad to get an email a day or two after my order seeing it was sold out. :-(
I was told more would be arriving this Week and will ship out to us, Tekin is close to us so we get our orders in about a day or 2 after they ship.

Once they arrive it will be hand to mouth.....
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:57 AM   #377
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Did you get more RS's in? I was sad to get an email a day or two after my order seeing it was sold out. :-(
I was told more would be arriving this Week and will ship out to us, Tekin is close to us so we get our orders in about a day or 2 after they ship.

Once they arrive it will be hand to mouth..... We have plenty of Hot Wires in stock
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:13 AM   #378
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You will be the first to have any units that are

**snip**

{repsonse to opensource the hotwire}

Not happening. The software for BL systems is very proprietary and personal.
Don't want to start up anything but i don't think he was referring to your brushless programs for the esc themselves, just the hotwire interface code so folks that don't run windows (don't forget mac/linux people drive rc/cars too) can use hotwire.

As to it being proprietary that is fine, you can still opensource the code for the interface and retain all rights to the brushless code, you can even retain the rights for the hotware interface code, but allow others to port the code to other operating systems, because something is "opensource" doesn't mean you are giving it away w/o rules govornign how people can use that code. Hell you can even have opt in where people have to sign a release stating they won't use it to compete w/ your hotwire interface etc.

This method has helped tons of companies reach people they would not have otherwise been able to reach because they lack the money or knowhow to program for lets say Symbian , you'd be amazed as to how resourceful some of the people out there are, who are willing to donate their skills just for the love. You race r/c heheh you know what doing it for the love is all about, computer programmers aren't much different!!

Also i'd like to point out that people who adamantly and vehemently prevent consumers from doing what they want to do usually find that consumers find a way to get around whatever block they put in place . A couple examples: napster and mp3's i'm sure all the mp3's you own are properly licensed , the sony psp home brew firmware (dude they figured out how to flash an eeprom in the dam BATTERY to crack that firmware), the dream cast (and just about any proprietary game system out there) they turned dreamcasts into web servers, hell they built a compute cluster out of 200 dream casts, i'm sure sega didn't plan on that!!!

Remember people who are going to steal software or IP are not going to let DRM (digital rights management) or anything else stop them from stealing software or IP, take a gander at all the "uncrackable" stuff floating around on peer to peer sights (like vista), and i can't remember the last time i saw the local crack dealer or career criminal in the gun shop applying for a gun license ;-).

In long and short i agree with you wanting to protect your intellectual property, but don't punish people who use a mac or linux or something other than windows, who want to legally use your software by not doing a little research into what opensource means and how it works.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:09 AM   #379
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Actually, just a white paper on the protocol used to make changes to the ESC would be enough. I'm sure it can be sniffed, but that's extra work. Someone writing their own client would just want to know what commands to send to the USB device to make it happen.

I have no interest in learning to disassemble the ESC's firmware, nor do I wish to be DMCA'd. :-)
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:51 AM   #380
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I doubt that any kind of open source for programming is going to happen any time soon. Besides all of the proprietary things that may or may not be involved they would lose control of what is programmed. Should Tekin be responsible for a burned up speedo that was programmed wrong by an open source program? Probably not.

They're having the same problem in the auto industry. Big name programmers that allow you to bump up a diesel to the point that things break under warranty. People are simply "putting it back" and returning a blown up transmission or engine to the dealership. GM is working on tracking this because it's such a big problem at the moment. Gone are the days of "I don't know it just stoped".

Personally, I think that if they were able to program the speedo so that you could adjust the timing there (with a coarse adjustment) it would be fine. I don't think that sensored only mode is real important to have on the speedo so that could stay on the Hotwire.

The ability to update the firmware on the speedo makes the Hotwire worth it as far as I'm concerned. A simple box or open source interface isn't going to have that ability.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:31 AM   #381
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I doubt that any kind of open source for programming is going to happen any time soon. Besides all of the proprietary things that may or may not be involved they would lose control of what is programmed. Should Tekin be responsible for a burned up speedo that was programmed wrong by an open source program? Probably not.

They're having the same problem in the auto industry. Big name programmers that allow you to bump up a diesel to the point that things break under warranty. People are simply "putting it back" and returning a blown up transmission or engine to the dealership. GM is working on tracking this because it's such a big problem at the moment. Gone are the days of "I don't know it just stoped".

Personally, I think that if they were able to program the speedo so that you could adjust the timing there (with a coarse adjustment) it would be fine. I don't think that sensored only mode is real important to have on the speedo so that could stay on the Hotwire.

The ability to update the firmware on the speedo makes the Hotwire worth it as far as I'm concerned. A simple box or open source interface isn't going to have that ability.
I guess the point i was trying to make is if someone really really wanted to make their own program for hotwire there is nothing tekin or anyone else could do to really stop them besides say ... "don't do that", which is why i pointed out the sony psp and other things that have been hacked to bits by determined people despite the best efforts of sony to stop them.

I also maybe didn't clearly make my point that the actual programming (the esc brains so to speak) is not what i'm talking about, i can't see the ability to change timing blowing up your esc, and if it would blow it up in linux it would do the same in windows, and i can't see tekin building the limits of how you set timing into the programmer vs into the esc code itself. Simply said if it can be programmed then it really shouldn't be able to blow up your esc, the esc should be smart enough to know when you have sent an invalid or dangerous setting.

So the best analogy i can come up with is the universal remote control (cheap 3in1 type, hell even the expensive logitech and above universals w/ lcd screens). Although television and dvd player manufacturer's closely guard their IP, you can go out and buy a functional replacement for their remote for 9.99 at walmart. Does it void your tv's warranty if you use a 3rd party remote? Of course not, but yet that 3rd party device can send commands to that tv even though it may be proprietary. I don't think the company who said if you use a universal remote your tv warranty would be void would be in that business very long, i also don't see a tv company fielding calls for the 3in1 and actually helping people program it to their model tv, they would most likely either hang up on you or tell you to call the company that made the 3in1 for help.

So just like the universal remote, it is my wish that tekin allow people to make their own universal computer software interface (again taking pains to separate that from ESC SOFTWARE).

I just don't like using windows, i don't want to be forced to use windows and i don't think in this day and age of perfectly viable alternatives that i should have to compromise. Again i understand the resource issue, i'm sure it was an investment creating hotwire and i respect that, i also respect the small return on investment creating hotwire software for other platforms outside of windows is, therefore it would be best for everyone if they allow the people who want it to make it themselves.

Again i have an example of how this works well , Digitrax DCC (model train stuff, it allows you to run multiple trains on the same track individually controlled via a square wave dc signal, and optionally a computer interface), i can if i were so inclined program my own interface for a Digitrax dcc booster. Digitrax owns the IP, the code in the booster, BUT i can write software that talks to it on any platform i want (just so happens someone wrote software for linux and it works great!!) Digitrax doesn't have to support it, the developer does, it can't blow up my 400$ dcc booster because the booster is smart enough to ignore dumb instructions. And get this ... I'm happy i don't use windows to control my trains. Digitrax is happy because now they have an additional customer they didn't have to spend a penny extra to make happy that would have otherwise gone elsewhere (actually my purchasing decision was based on the fact that digitrax opened their command language).

So my bottom line is choice, i chose Tekin and hotwire(it's on order i have to go pick it up at my lhs on friday), i didn't choose LRP, or Novak or anyone else, but here is the deal i HAD a choice. W/ the hotwire programming software i have no choice i MUST run windows (spent 4 bleedin hours of my life installing and patching it too, goes to show you my commitment to tekin hahaha), and for those mac owners out there who don't own a windows pc or windows license key is it fair for them to have to plunk down 130$ for a windows license JUST to get the most out of their esc? This may very well push them to losi or speed passion that have hand held units and don't require windows to get the most out of the esc.

Wasn't intended to be a soapbox, and i'm not really a zealot pushing one thing or the next, i understand that windows rules the world and such, hell i made a living for a good bit designing windows server infrastructure, i just like options, just food for thought.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:47 PM   #382
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We could go on and on about the open source thing. I'm really not in the mood but I will say that it's not like a universal remote unless the universal remote can program the TV to have a different volume curve, max volume, refresh rate, and picture settings.

It would take a lot of programming to make the system foolproof for an open source interface. I'd rather have that space taken up with new features that help me on the track than foolproofing.

The MAC guy that sets next to me had a good laugh though. His reply to the whole windows thing and programmers like this... "but that's how it is".

Remember Gilbertson's Law:

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:12 PM   #383
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We could go on and on about the open source thing. I'm really not in the mood but I will say that it's not like a universal remote unless the universal remote can program the TV to have a different volume curve, max volume, refresh rate, and picture settings.

It would take a lot of programming to make the system foolproof for an open source interface. I'd rather have that space taken up with new features that help me on the track than foolproofing.

The MAC guy that sets next to me had a good laugh though. His reply to the whole windows thing and programmers like this... "but that's how it is".

Remember Gilbertson's Law:

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Isn't that the truth hahah!! funniest part is that usually i'm that sufficiently talented fool!!

Agree w/ you, but hey can you blame me for asking? Stranger things have happened.

I guess that is the whole thing i like, i don't have to wait on a company to decide when it's time to fix a bug or issue w/ something if i'm motivated i can fix it myself.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:39 PM   #384
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Open source isn't really a big deal here. If they wanted to encourage developers to make a client for other platforms, they could document the protocol, but really, how often does that happen in R/C? I could do it for Mac, but it's so much easier to just use parallels. Doing it for a portable device like iPhone might be worth it so I don't have to lug a laptop around, but it doesn't have the right outputs to make that easy/reasonable.

Anyway, this isn't so much about Tekin, but just RC in general. As more companies turn to using PC's for added funtionality, the age-old problem of supporting multiple OS's will always come up. If you pick only one, obviously windows is the right choice. I'm not going to complain, being able to do things like update our own firmware is totally worth it.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:53 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Open source isn't really a big deal here. If they wanted to encourage developers to make a client for other platforms, they could document the protocol, but really, how often does that happen in R/C? I could do it for Mac, but it's so much easier to just use parallels. Doing it for a portable device like iPhone might be worth it so I don't have to lug a laptop around, but it doesn't have the right outputs to make that easy/reasonable.

Anyway, this isn't so much about Tekin, but just RC in general. As more companies turn to using PC's for added funtionality, the age-old problem of supporting multiple OS's will always come up. If you pick only one, obviously windows is the right choice. I'm not going to complain, being able to do things like update our own firmware is totally worth it.
Yup what he said ;0 which is why i setup windows hahah.

Seriously i'm dying to get my hands on it. I bought a rotor for my motor too can't wait to get to the track on sat!!
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:17 PM   #386
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...**puts the train back on the rails***

Anyway! Back to the RS!
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:19 PM   #387
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Is Tekin working on a new firmware version? If so, what are some of the changes that would be in it?

Also, when will the pro driver ESC profiles begin being posted?
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:47 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
Gone are the days of "I don't know it just stoped".
Milwaukee Power tool batters contain a chip that records the battery usage for waranty reasons. For sure it keeps track of the cycles and temps. So data logging is working deep into our society.

Food for thought. High End computer equipment is completly adjustible to attract market of overclockers. The "locked down" hardware is mostly found in big box stores selling desktops.

By Tekin having the Hotwire available is already a bigger sellingpoint than Modes 1~6 on the other brands.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:55 PM   #389
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I wouldn't be surprised if Jim decided to make the RS/RS Pro and Hotwire a package deal sometime soon. Either way, it's not that expensive of a tool and it really allows you to fine tune the adjustments, much more than any other speed control.
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Old 06-12-2008, 10:17 PM   #390
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It seems that this ESC is real good..have 4 TC ESC from LRP, and 2 of them have been in real trouble (RMA) warranty job.

Havnt read the hole thread, but any link to where i can buy it? the BL Sensor speedo, think it will be ace in my 4wd buggy and TC

any links would be great, i think it is time to move on should i give it a try?

Best regards Thomas
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