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Old 04-17-2009, 04:38 AM   #3331
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I think it's actually simpler than that. With firmware before 1.89 in the RS, you had the timing advance slider. This only affected the timing in dual mode. IN dual mode, the RS used the endbell timing only, until the motor started spinning. At some RPM (pretty low) the RS would then ignore the endbell, and use the voltage induced by the rotor and windings to snense the rotor position, and would add the timing chosen with the timing advance feature. The timing advance slider has a range of 1 to 100, representing a percentage of available timing advance. A setting of 100% on the slider represents something in the neighborhood of 30 degrees of advance. This is independent of the endbell position, remember, once the motor has started spinning, the RS stops looking at the sensors in dual mode.

In Sensor Only mode, the RS looked only at the endbell (sensor) position for timing, the timing advance slider had no effect (unless the sensor cable came unplugged or got damaged, then the RS would fall back to sensorless operation, and use the timing advnace value stored (which is why we set the timing advance to max even when using sensored mode... if you lost the sensor cable during a run, you could finish the run with decent timing.)

In 1.89 and later revisions (and the corresponding newer Hotwire versions) the timing advance slider's name changes to timing boost when sensor mode is selected. The boost can be set in a range of 0 to 30, with the valkue representing degrees of timing rather than a percentage. From what I've read here, there's no RPM or throttle position based shift in timing when using boost, it's simply more timing added to what is set at the endbell of the motor, and is there the whole time the motor is running. I suspect it's slightly more complex than that, but i don't expect anyone at Tekin to divulge exactly what is going on... no one wants to do the competition's homework for them, right?

I don't think the boost comes in all at once at some certain RPM or throttle position, you'd feel a definite "shift" in the car if that were happening, almost like a nitro car hitting second gear. I've never experienced that sort of feeling with any combination of endbell and boost settings. I suspect that the boost comes in at some fairly low RPM, or maybe ramps in, maybe the RPM where this occurs is based on the amount of boost selected, but I don't know for sure.

What I'd LOVE to see in a future version would be a user-editable timing map. The interface could look like an x-y axis graph, with the horizontal axis representing RPM and the vertical axis representing timing. A line on the graph would represent the timing, and you'd click and drag points along the line to get the timing curve you want.
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Old 04-17-2009, 04:48 AM   #3332
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Hey Trips, that user interface timing map is scheculed for released next April 1st 2010. (Just kidding..... you got me good last time)

Yes that feature would be awesome .
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Old 04-17-2009, 04:53 AM   #3333
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:50 AM   #3334
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Originally Posted by Trips View Post
I think it's actually simpler than that. With firmware before 1.89 in the RS, you had the timing advance slider. This only affected the timing in dual mode. IN dual mode, the RS used the endbell timing only, until the motor started spinning. At some RPM (pretty low) the RS would then ignore the endbell, and use the voltage induced by the rotor and windings to snense the rotor position, and would add the timing chosen with the timing advance feature. The timing advance slider has a range of 1 to 100, representing a percentage of available timing advance. A setting of 100% on the slider represents something in the neighborhood of 30 degrees of advance. This is independent of the endbell position, remember, once the motor has started spinning, the RS stops looking at the sensors in dual mode.

In Sensor Only mode, the RS looked only at the endbell (sensor) position for timing, the timing advance slider had no effect (unless the sensor cable came unplugged or got damaged, then the RS would fall back to sensorless operation, and use the timing advnace value stored (which is why we set the timing advance to max even when using sensored mode... if you lost the sensor cable during a run, you could finish the run with decent timing.)

In 1.89 and later revisions (and the corresponding newer Hotwire versions) the timing advance slider's name changes to timing boost when sensor mode is selected. The boost can be set in a range of 0 to 30, with the valkue representing degrees of timing rather than a percentage. From what I've read here, there's no RPM or throttle position based shift in timing when using boost, it's simply more timing added to what is set at the endbell of the motor, and is there the whole time the motor is running. I suspect it's slightly more complex than that, but i don't expect anyone at Tekin to divulge exactly what is going on... no one wants to do the competition's homework for them, right?

I don't think the boost comes in all at once at some certain RPM or throttle position, you'd feel a definite "shift" in the car if that were happening, almost like a nitro car hitting second gear. I've never experienced that sort of feeling with any combination of endbell and boost settings. I suspect that the boost comes in at some fairly low RPM, or maybe ramps in, maybe the RPM where this occurs is based on the amount of boost selected, but I don't know for sure.

What I'd LOVE to see in a future version would be a user-editable timing map. The interface could look like an x-y axis graph, with the horizontal axis representing RPM and the vertical axis representing timing. A line on the graph would represent the timing, and you'd click and drag points along the line to get the timing curve you want.
WOW! bring back the plug n play speedos dude
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Ive just bought the RS and luckily I have a couple of buddy's that will help me out setting it up, coz atm this is rocket science at this present time
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:10 AM   #3335
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What I'd LOVE to see in a future version would be a user-editable timing map. The interface could look like an x-y axis graph, with the horizontal axis representing RPM and the vertical axis representing timing. A line on the graph would represent the timing, and you'd click and drag points along the line to get the timing curve you want.
I don't think that most people are ready for a timing map yet. I'd bet adjustable timing maps would just lead to more burned up motors.

If Tekin were to release several user downloadable profiles that had a reasonably safe timing map built in that might be ok. Set-ups for the spec motors on 4 or 6 cell would be a great start.
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:16 AM   #3336
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I don't think that most people are ready for a timing map yet. I'd bet adjustable timing maps would just lead to more burned up motors.

If Tekin were to release several user downloadable profiles that had a reasonably safe timing map built in that might be ok. Set-ups for the spec motors on 4 or 6 cell would be a great start.
and 5 cell?
don't forget 5 cell.
here everybody drives 5 cell
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:07 AM   #3337
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and 5 cell?
don't forget 5 cell.
here everybody drives 5 cell
cells, what are they, that's what they keep prisoners isn't it
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:16 AM   #3338
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I don't think that most people are ready for a timing map yet. I'd bet adjustable timing maps would just lead to more burned up motors.
You may be right, but I'm not sure that everyone was ready for boost either... I've seen several people smoke motors since 1.89 came along... Heck, I've been seeing people fry motors for the last 30 years for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
If Tekin were to release several user downloadable profiles that had a reasonably safe timing map built in that might be ok. Set-ups for the spec motors on 4 or 6 cell would be a great start.
Reasonably safe defaults I can see, but there are too many variables with track size, layout, car type, 4 cell, 5 cell, 6 cell, LiPO 3.7, 7.4... You'd need dozens or even hundreds of safe profiles to find the right one for a specific application. I'd be willing to take the risk of burning a few motors up to have complete control of the timing. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:40 AM   #3339
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Yes I will be at Speedworld working tomorrow! LOL

It's been quite some time since I raced TC on asphalt. I did a quick one hour paint job and tossed it on the car.

Most of the guys running Tc 17.5 are running the setup that the Prez mentioned.

Anyone looking to get the latest software need only email me here with the request:

[email protected]
I'll be coming by to help with what I can. I can't really practice because I have to leave by 1:30 so it's useless for me to try and practice for that short period of time. Besides.....you may need all my help with your sedan See ya shortly.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:02 AM   #3340
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Yeah no doubt!

I rushed a body last night and in that rush didn't mount it before I painted.

All jokes aside it's been years since I've driven on the asphalt.

C ya in awhile.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:37 AM   #3341
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Trips.

Awsome explaination. cleared up a lot for me I dont feel confused. Though i am wondering if i have an old software version of Hotwire because I am in sensored only mode and the timing slider is still timing and not boost. Ill check tekins site for a download. maybe that is my issue any thoughts

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Old 04-17-2009, 10:55 AM   #3342
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heres what im seeing. as you can see i dont have a dual mode option and sensored only is selected.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:58 AM   #3343
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Dan do you run Vista? If you do your hotwire is up to date but the RS software isn't!

Check out this video if you're a vista user. You're going to need to uninstall and re install your software. OR you can get the latest 194 from me and do it all at once!

[email protected]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTp3tUL9u8Y
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:35 PM   #3344
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ok there we go. now that i have the updated desktop software all is clear thank you to everyone for their help

Dan
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:57 PM   #3345
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can someone email me the lastest and greatest software, thanks in advance
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