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Old 04-15-2012, 08:51 PM   #22516
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Default B4.1 timing and gearing

I've been having to run in the 13.5 class at my track, because there aren't a lot of 17.5 guys. Right now I have my B4.1 geared at 33/72 (FDR 5.67) and am coming off the track under 150F, but can't really keep up with the boosted 13.5 guys. What gearing and timing is a good starting point?

It looks as though the default timing is around 16 degrees, is that normal?

I don't have the Hotwire interface. Is there a difference between advancing motor timing and timing in the ESC?

Equipment:

Tekin RS Pro (no updates)
Redline 17.5T brushless sensored motor

Last edited by InfamousJon; 04-15-2012 at 09:00 PM. Reason: To add info
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:31 PM   #22517
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I've been having to run in the 13.5 class at my track, because there aren't a lot of 17.5 guys. Right now I have my B4.1 geared at 33/72 (FDR 5.67) and am coming off the track under 150F, but can't really keep up with the boosted 13.5 guys. What gearing and timing is a good starting point?

It looks as though the default timing is around 16 degrees, is that normal?

I don't have the Hotwire interface. Is there a difference between advancing motor timing and timing in the ESC?

Equipment:

Tekin RS Pro (no updates)
Redline 17.5T brushless sensored motor
First off, in order to use boost, you'll need to find someone with a Hotwire, since I'm pretty sure that the RS/RS Pro still ships with 1.89 firmware, which didn't have boost/turbo. The only way to update the firmware is with a Hotwire.

Timing in the motor is always there, since it is a physical moving of the sensor board. Timing in the ESC can be adjusted via start/end RPM, plus adding turbo/turbo ramp.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:34 PM   #22518
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Default mod setting

I am thinking about going mod racing at leisure hours raceway, people are telling me i will not be able to go lower than a 10.5 any truth to this? I am running a t3 with an rs not pro. any suggestions for gear would be appreciated.

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj9rh...5&feature=plcp
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:36 PM   #22519
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First off, in order to use boost, you'll need to find someone with a Hotwire, since I'm pretty sure that the RS/RS Pro still ships with 1.89 firmware, which didn't have boost/turbo. The only way to update the firmware is with a Hotwire.

Timing in the motor is always there, since it is a physical moving of the sensor board. Timing in the ESC can be adjusted via start/end RPM, plus adding turbo/turbo ramp.
I know that the boosting on the ESC is electronic and Hotwire is needed to modify it and I also know that the motor timing is physical, but I'm curious as to how they compare. Maybe you answered the question I just don't know the difference between turbo and turbo/ramp.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:58 AM   #22520
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Originally Posted by sobiski racer View Post
I am thinking about going mod racing at leisure hours raceway, people are telling me i will not be able to go lower than a 10.5 any truth to this? I am running a t3 with an rs not pro. any suggestions for gear would be appreciated.

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj9rh...5&feature=plcp
You'd be surprised how fast a boosted 10.5 TC car can be.

Tough to say on gearing. Try Hara's 11.5 TITC setup: http://www.teamtekin.com/hotwire/ESC..._11.5_v212.pdf
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #22521
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Originally Posted by InfamousJon View Post
I know that the boosting on the ESC is electronic and Hotwire is needed to modify it and I also know that the motor timing is physical, but I'm curious as to how they compare. Maybe you answered the question I just don't know the difference between turbo and turbo/ramp.
Motor timing is always there, regardless of motor RPM, so if you have a lot of motor timing, the motor can feel like it is bogging (same if you add too much timing in the ESC too fast). When you add it in the ESC, you have some control of when it is added, and over what range it is ramped up. Timing is ramped linearly between the start and end RPM. After the motor has reached the end RPM, the amount of timing would be the same (given "zero" motor timing and the same amount of timing added in the ESC). It is how is it added that is the difference.

Then, "turbo" is added on top of that (also ramped up) after full throttle has been active for the specified amount of time, regardless of motor RPM.

All that timing does is affect when the each phase of the motor is energized in relation to the magnetic pole of the rotor, based on the signal from the sensor.

Clear as mud?
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:34 PM   #22522
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Motor timing is always there, regardless of motor RPM, so if you have a lot of motor timing, the motor can feel like it is bogging (same if you add too much timing in the ESC too fast). When you add it in the ESC, you have some control of when it is added, and over what range it is ramped up. Timing is ramped linearly between the start and end RPM. After the motor has reached the end RPM, the amount of timing would be the same (given "zero" motor timing and the same amount of timing added in the ESC). It is how is it added that is the difference.

Then, "turbo" is added on top of that (also ramped up) after full throttle has been active for the specified amount of time, regardless of motor RPM.

All that timing does is affect when the each phase of the motor is energized in relation to the magnetic pole of the rotor, based on the signal from the sensor.

Clear as mud?
Clear as muddy water...

So if i am understanding you correctly, both high motor timing and ESC boost isn't a good thing. Bogging would cause slower acceleration and response, but allow for higher top speeds? Does that mean a mix of the two is best or should I turn my motor timing down to 0* and begin by bumping up the boost in the ESC?

And it sounds like 'turbo' adds punch (voltage? or current?) to the motor when max throttle is applied?

I'm taking a physics course, so I think I understand what you mean about energy and pole relationship. In essence the magnetism applied is being 'stretched' by changing when they alternate current? Stretch it too much and it has a weaker 'pull and push.'
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:58 PM   #22523
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Clear as muddy water...

So if i am understanding you correctly, both high motor timing and ESC boost isn't a good thing. Bogging would cause slower acceleration and response, but allow for higher top speeds? Does that mean a mix of the two is best or should I turn my motor timing down to 0* and begin by bumping up the boost in the ESC?

And it sounds like 'turbo' adds punch (voltage? or current?) to the motor when max throttle is applied?

I'm taking a physics course, so I think I understand what you mean about energy and pole relationship. In essence the magnetism applied is being 'stretched' by changing when they alternate current? Stretch it too much and it has a weaker 'pull and push.'
If the sum of motor timing and ESC timing is above a certain amount, the motor won't even run (or won't run right), since the phases will be fired so far out out of time compared to the magnet.

I believe that the amount of throttle is converted to pulse width modulation (PWM) and varies the amount of time each pole of the motor is energized, basically giving the rotor little pulses of magnetic field to force the rotor to move.

Since almost all motors have some built-in timing (you can't really get to zero), tuning the motor timing and the ESC timing really comes down trying to find the optimum mix for a given motor and gearing combo.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:53 PM   #22524
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ok guys im very confused, i have an old tc3 that i was trying to run in the gt 10 class. its has a tekin 17.5 and an rs pro in it and i just got smoked. any way i have it on the hot wire now and it is showing 80 timing advance, is that ok? how do i get the turbo and boost to work? sorry for the long post im just confused
thanks ralph
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:56 PM   #22525
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you need to click sensor mode to get timing boost and turbo also have you looked at youtube for helpful videos
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #22526
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you need to click sensor mode to get timing boost and turbo also have you looked at youtube for helpful videos
thanks smoke i just clicked it and it came up. i will check the youtube thing any idea of a starting point for this turbo and boost?
ralph
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:05 PM   #22527
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Originally Posted by ralph brunt View Post
ok guys im very confused, i have an old tc3 that i was trying to run in the gt 10 class. its has a tekin 17.5 and an rs pro in it and i just got smoked. any way i have it on the hot wire now and it is showing 80 timing advance, is that ok? how do i get the turbo and boost to work? sorry for the long post im just confused
thanks ralph
Go to the Tekin website and refer to their reference manual for the RS. It will explain much of what you need to know. I printed out a copy for future reference.

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Old 04-16-2012, 08:36 PM   #22528
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thanks smoke i just clicked it and it came up. i will check the youtube thing any idea of a starting point for this turbo and boost?
ralph
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:00 PM   #22529
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just read the rules and i cant run turbo or boost so now im back to gearing
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:28 AM   #22530
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so you have to be in blinky,run max motor timing and start to find some gear,play with the throttle setting with the hotwire so you don't loose to much punch
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