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Old 11-16-2011, 07:51 PM   #21286
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I don't like soldering a cap on top of my speedo. I don't like trying to find a neat little space to put a booster. I DO like the fact that I can put my speedo in any car that I own. I DO like the size and think it's easier to solder a booster in place when I need it and not have to deal with it when I don't need it. I'd rather have freedom of choice on where I mount the speedo and accessories rather than have to find space for a larger speedo. There are alot of Tekins in the A-mains. I guess they're doing something right.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #21287
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Originally Posted by ByteStream View Post
Why is that awesome? If they are thinking of this, then they see demand in the market for a 1s booster, then why not just build it into the speedo.


Honestly, who here thinks having a built in booster is not a good idea?
Because to work properly, a built in booster in an ESC that the end user may use 1S or 2S also has to have a sensor to detect which voltage it's getting before turning on or off the booster (dedicated purpose built add on 1S boosters that will never see 2S don't need this circuit, that's why they can be made so cheaply), and by design it's usuallly integrated with the Battery Eleminator Circuit (BEC).

It's not the booster/BEC that goes bad because it's pretty robust electronics, it's the voltage sensor that goes bad because it's usually done as some sort of descriminator circuit(relatively fragile electronically), thus rendering the entire ESC a paperweight. LRP V2 ESCs are well known for this, as it's about the only thing that really goes bad with them other than getting plugged in backwards. Turn around time has been about 6-8 weeks for warranty or service work. (Tekin turn around is about 8 days door to door).

An add on module prevents being stopped by a $1 circuit on a $10 booster in a $200 ESC.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:07 PM   #21288
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
I don't like soldering a cap on top of my speedo. I don't like trying to find a neat little space to put a booster. I DO like the fact that I can put my speedo in any car that I own. I DO like the size and think it's easier to solder a booster in place when I need it and not have to deal with it when I don't need it. I'd rather have freedom of choice on where I mount the speedo and accessories rather than have to find space for a larger speedo. There are alot of Tekins in the A-mains. I guess they're doing something right.
If your talking about size, of course all of the SP/HW are big, even their non built in booster speedo's are big, but take a look at these which are pretty similar in size, the LRP and Viper have built in boosters, so I am sure Tekin could build one without it being much larger than what is out there.

Tekin RS Dimensions: 33 x 25.4 x 11.5mm
Viper VTX1 Dimensions: 30 x 32.5 x 14.5mm
LRP SXX SS: 30.5 x 33 x 21mm

Once again, this topic has nothing to do with the performance of the Tekin.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:23 PM   #21289
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Why is that awesome? If they are thinking of this, then they see demand in the market for a 1s booster, then why not just build it into the speedo.


Honestly, who here thinks having a built in booster is not a good idea?
A plug in booster would be just like having a built in one as it would fit within the form factor...but when the booster goes bad you can just drop in another one rather than having to send in your whole ESC to be repaired.

I'm thinking it could be something similar to the extended life batteries for laptops that lock on to the back or the bottom of the laptop through a connector on the bottom of the laptop. Imagine a module that locks on to the top of the ESC and bingo you've got a booster built into the ESC with no extra wires going all over the place. Then in applications that don't need a booster you can remove all that extraneous circuitry...or if the booster ever fails your ESC isn't toast as you could use a RX pack until you could get a replacement booster module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByteStream View Post
If your talking about size, of course all of the SP/HW are big, even their non built in booster speedo's are big, but take a look at these which are pretty similar in size, the LRP and Viper have built in boosters, so I am sure Tekin could build one without it being much larger than what is out there.
I'm sure they could too...but as noted above the LRP and other 1s ESCs have a pretty high failure rate involved in the circuitry needed to add a booster to the ESC. By having it a plug in module that circuit (voltage sensor) is not needed and should the booster fail it can be replaced.

As for the Viper...their 1s ESC will have a booster...however that ESC is not out yet.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:34 PM   #21290
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I'm sure they could too...but as noted above the LRP and other 1s ESCs have a pretty high failure rate involved in the circuitry needed to add a booster to the ESC. By having it a plug in module that circuit (voltage sensor) is not needed and should the booster fail it can be replaced.
As noted by whom? One person that heard from another person that brand X goes bad? I only heard mention of LRP, not SP or HW. Please point me to some posts or real information about built in boosters going bad specifically, rather than hearsay.

No one running an LRP or SP has had the booster go bad at my track. If there was such a high rate of failure, then I would expect at least one person to have had that problem and none have.

I've been running a 1s HW in my WGT car without any problems whatsoever.
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Old 11-16-2011, 11:59 PM   #21291
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Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Because to work properly, a built in booster in an ESC that the end user may use 1S or 2S also has to have a sensor to detect which voltage it's getting before turning on or off the booster (dedicated purpose built add on 1S boosters that will never see 2S don't need this circuit, that's why they can be made so cheaply), and by design it's usuallly integrated with the Battery Eleminator Circuit (BEC).
Are you refering to the same type of voltage sensor that can in effect be used as a "lipo cutoff" sensor (that is already a part of most ESC's today), detects the voltage of the battery then takes some action like shutting down the speedo?
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:03 AM   #21292
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Originally Posted by ByteStream View Post
As noted by whom? One person that heard from another person that brand X goes bad? I only heard mention of LRP, not SP or HW. Please point me to some posts or real information about built in boosters going bad specifically, rather than hearsay.
Hey, now, RC only works if you assume everybody is ignorant about software and hardware design. Stop picking at the cracks in the system, you're ruining everything!
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:16 AM   #21293
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Honestly, who here thinks having a built in booster is not a good idea?
I do not think a built in booster is good, for reasons already suggested.

I would rather have the ability to switch out a seperate booster if it failed on me, than to ship an ESC back to the manufacturer for service.

IMHO, some things NEED to be in an ESC, other things do not need to be in an ESC...

It's like waterproofing an ESC.

Nice to have, not so easy to fix though if it goes wrong - and not an essential feature...
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:35 AM   #21294
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Me personally, I prefer the battery pack. The Tekin RS is so light that I have to add weight to make the minimum so I might as well use the tiny LiFe pack (16g) and place it where the weight gives some benefit. Tekin plus pack = 76g. Hobbywing = 105g, on ounce more.

I have been using the same type of pack in both my 1/12 and WGT for two years without any problems or failure. The current used is 47-50mah for 6 minutes in the WGT and 55-60mah for 8 minutes in 1/12. The battery has a 220mah capacity so as you can see if I neglect to charge it (charging takes between 5 to 10 minutes) I will not have a problem.

An added benefit is the slightly higher voltage to the servo. Cost is less than the expensive boosters and a little more than the cheaper ones. No soldering needs to be done which helps to keep the wiring simple.

I use a dedicated inexpensive charger just for the LiFe packs and in case my main charger goes south I still have this one as a back-up.

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Old 11-17-2011, 07:44 AM   #21295
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In the 2+ years I've been back into 12th I have had zero issues with Tekin, or LRP. Nor have I seen any issues with either, that were not user error.
In fact I've picked up some deals on here from people that were scared to even crack open the package for fear of what they read on RC Tech

I have seen many issues with other brands in that time, that were not user error.

At least 1 out of 5 new 12th scale racers that I talk to, opt for the built in booster type esc.

I always explain that the Tekin is known as the fastest bar none, track record and such. I say that the TQ booster has been in my car for 2 years, and how you forget it's there, works perfect, and so on.

They generally want the easiest option of LRP or HW.

You can bury your heads in the sand, and say what you want, but sales are sales.

I still run both Tekin and LRP in my cars, and honestly don't think that will change anytime soon.

just my $.02
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:58 AM   #21296
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Originally Posted by tc3team View Post
I do not think a built in booster is good, for reasons already suggested.

I would rather have the ability to switch out a seperate booster if it failed on me, than to ship an ESC back to the manufacturer for service.
Once again, who says it's going to fail on you? This all seems like scare tactics to me. A rumor gets started without any proof and everyone points to it as the reason that XYZ technology is bad.

Along those lines we should probably rip out the BEC circut then, cause that might fail as well.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:04 AM   #21297
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I was on the fence as to which ESC to get and decide to go with the Tekin and an RX pack for my new 12th scale. Apparently the LRP in my offroad car got upset as it went up in smoke later that evening. I'm not sure what caused the issue as the only thing that was different was I inadvertently had the switch in the on position when I plugged the battery in. Lights came on, I reached for the switch and the smoke beat me to it. I'm guessing this is an indication I made the correct decision on the Tekin.

What I would like to see in the future is a Speed control that is long and slim. This would allow it to be mounted in positions current ones can't be. Specifically I'm looking at the inline CRC Xi, make it narrow enough to fit next to the battery or between the battery and servo. It would also help quite a bit with the latest off road cars where the trend is building narrow chassis.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:11 AM   #21298
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Originally Posted by ByteStream View Post
Once again, who says it's going to fail on you? This all seems like scare tactics to me. A rumor gets started without any proof and everyone points to it as the reason that XYZ technology is bad.

Along those lines we should probably rip out the BEC circut then, cause that might fail as well.
Woah horsey....

Scare tactics no. I am not in r/c to scare anyone.

personal preference, yes
It's nice to have the choice of it not being integrated atm as you can replace it for any external brand you choose to race with....

Choice is a good thing, right? Rather than being stuck with the one inside it.

But, if one does get added interally, you have that choice too.

Also, If there was only an internal one, people would want what we have already

Whatever we prefer, enjoy the racing....
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:52 AM   #21299
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Woah horsey....

Scare tactics no. I am not in r/c to scare anyone.

personal preference, yes
It's nice to have the choice of it not being integrated atm as you can replace it for any external brand you choose to race with....

Choice is a good thing, right? Rather than being stuck with the one inside it.

But, if one does get added interally, you have that choice too.

Also, If there was only an internal one, people would want what we have already

Whatever we prefer, enjoy the racing....
I would have to agree with HAVING the built-in booster in the ESC. I recently got back into R/C from being away since the late 90's and I must say it was a drag learning that I needed yet another piece to make my 12th scale work. I opted for the receiver pack but since I was just starting out, I had only 1 charger. Yes, its a pain charging yet another thing on my single charger. I then went with a tiny booster i got from hobbyking (like 2$ a piece), Works like a charm! However I would've much preferred not even thinking about this when I first got my stuff together a few months ago. Make it easier for the new guys, we need more people doing on-road since offroad sucks !
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:39 AM   #21300
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To sum things up ..

There is a market for speedo's that work with 1s without the need for external packs/boosters. LRP, SP/HW, Viper have realized this and released products and they have been selling pretty well. I venture that all new speedo's released by these companies will have have this tech as well.

These speedo's still allow you to plug in an external rx pack if that is what you really want, giving you the choice to do so.

These speedo's are really no bigger or weigh more than their own brands counterparts. Yes SP/HW are big, they have always been big, no matter if they have a built in booster or not. So the booster is not adding significant size or weight to any of these. If your going to do that comparrison, compare a speedo with/out an internal booster from the same company.

Just because Tekin does not have this tech yet, is not a reason to defend that by spreading some rumor that "all other 1s speedo's fail because the booster went bad", there simply is no proof to that. If there is please point it out to me .. cause my best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's speedo went bad cause of the internal booster. Bah. That is what I meant by scare tactics.

There already is a voltage sensor in the speedo, so that arguement does not fly with me .. it's used as a lipo cutoff. I have not heard of any Tekin lipo cutoffs going bad.

I see more and more ppl going to other brands in 1s racing due to this, it's just easier for them.

Patiently waiting for the RS-1S and RSPro-1S to hit the shelves.
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