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Old 11-23-2010, 02:25 AM   #18406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCoult View Post
Randy's talking about cheehtae's setup, not yours.

For your setup, your end rpm seems a little low, but that wouldn't cause the problem you are having. Is your drivetrain completely free? If it is, try a high amount of minimum throttle, 20 or above. Push won't make any difference. It only has an effect at neutral.

cheetae, as Randy says, your rpm range is way out for a TC, it's even a little out for a 17.5 12th! You really need to be in the range of 5000-20000. The way you have it now you are getting practically instant full timing.

Trev
Sorry, my bad!
Drivetrain is free running. I'll try the higher min throttle and the wider rpm range, thanks.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:40 AM   #18407
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try 203 paul if all else fails.

im going back to 203 as I feel 212 is lacking punch and top end.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:57 AM   #18408
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try 203 paul if all else fails.

im going back to 203 as I feel 212 is lacking punch and top end.
I much prefer 208/212 Al, seems to have all the bases covered, wheelspinning off the line up to balistic speed and lower motor temps that 203 didn't have...

Worst case I'll drop the Trinity Duo back in and add motor timing and drop off the turbo timing, no timing problems then
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:26 AM   #18409
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Default good 1/12th scale setup

Can we please come up with a GOOD 17.5 1/12th scale carpet setup?

There is not 1 on the website!

I am currently running:

~750 start rpm
~6500 end rpm
45 boost
10 turbo
.3 delay
ramp 2
Profile 4
rollout of 3.1"
minimum throttle of 5

I am about .4 seconds off fast lap (against VERY FAST guys)
My lap times fall off by about .4 seconds from beginning to the end. I come off the track about 140 F.

I have heard of people running some other things that are pretty fast as well.

Such as:

~750 start
~4500 end
40 boost
5 turbo
.1 delay
ramp 3
profile 4
minimum throttle 10
rollout of 3.25

I tried running this and came off at 170F. It was not so good.

Are these any good?

Thanks!

Rob
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:55 AM   #18410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink and Blue View Post
Can we please come up with a GOOD 17.5 1/12th scale carpet setup?

There is not 1 on the website!

I am currently running:

~750 start rpm
~6500 end rpm
45 boost
10 turbo
.3 delay
ramp 2
Profile 4
rollout of 3.1"
minimum throttle of 5

I am about .4 seconds off fast lap (against VERY FAST guys)
My lap times fall off by about .4 seconds from beginning to the end. I come off the track about 140 F.

I have heard of people running some other things that are pretty fast as well.

Such as:

~750 start
~4500 end
40 boost
5 turbo
.1 delay
ramp 3
profile 4
minimum throttle 10
rollout of 3.25

I tried running this and came off at 170F. It was not so good.

Are these any good?

Thanks!

Rob
what size is the track
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:17 AM   #18411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink and Blue View Post
Can we please come up with a GOOD 17.5 1/12th scale carpet setup?

~750 start rpm
~6500 end rpm
I tried running this and came off at 170F. It was not so good.
3k start and 10k end rpm for 17.5 (and 3k to 12k for 13.5) was suggested to me by a really fast and smooth racer.

i haven't tried 17.5 but for 13.5 i was using 7k to 9k end rpm and suffering. i was shocked how much my lap times improved.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:28 AM   #18412
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really the goal for 1/12 17.5 setups with boost is to run as much gear as you can and still get good infield speed. then use timing boost to accelerate out of the corners and then turbo to get you to top speed down the straight.

IMHO 700 is way too low for even 17.5 1/12. at that rpm range, it should be all motor torque getting you around. remember that electric motors have infinite amount of torque at sero rpm and near zero it is exponention. if you log your session on the track, i would bet that you are never off timing boost. even on smaller tracks, I have not seen cars rolling less then 1500-2000 rpm with a 17.5 1/12. and for the top end, you will never get past 9000 in a 1/12. if you do, then you are geared too low. if you figure a 17.5 motor is ~2200Kv, the max voltage out of a pack is 4.22, then your top rpm is 9284.

figure your low rpm to be the rpm at which you exit a corner and max rpm is the rpm at which you enter a corner before you let off. and turbo timing to be engaged 1/12 down the straight. the timing boost and turbo values are basically what you can set to keep the motor from fading.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:40 AM   #18413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
IMHO 700 is way too low for even 17.5 1/12. at that rpm range, it should be all motor torque getting you around.
I agree, a 1/12th will never see 700rpm on the track. Just rolling around checking circles puts it slightly above that. I recently ran a bunch of practice sessions with a Novak Sentry. This is on a 90'ish x 45'ish track. It is kewl that you can see the laps just by looking at the data! Realistically the top RPM was about 12k on a fresh pack and averaged out to be about 11k. I feel the 15k spikes were from bumps letting it free rev.

Just for reference (yes I know it is a no-no, but I'm a big boy and understand the consequences) it free revs to about 22k with this set-up on the bench.

I have other runs with different settings, the same settings, and different gearing as well.

Obviously this won't apply to everyone and each track will be different... But I put this out there as some quantitative food for thought!

Setup used is at the top (this was my first time using a Tekin so be kind) and the average, min and max is in the upper left side. Duo 1 17.5 0 deg. timing.

Mike Slaughter
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Last edited by masterhit; 11-23-2010 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:43 AM   #18414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterhit View Post
Realistically the top RPM was about 12k on a fresh pack and averaged out to be about 11k. I feel the 15k spikes were from bumps letting it free rev.

Just for reference (yes I know it is a no-no, but I'm a big boy and understand the consequences) it free revs to about 22k with this set-up on the bench.
you are talking boosted for those top rpms? the value of ~9000 is the motor alone, no software timing. and they are based on what most manufactures use for kV ratings of a 17.5 motor
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Last edited by theisgroup; 11-23-2010 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:45 AM   #18415
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Originally Posted by goBezerk View Post
5 to 20K is what I used to great effect with the 10.5t, feels a little lack lustre with the 17.5 though.
All other things equal the wide RPM range will feel "soft" but you can always compensate in other ways (with gearing, motor timing, throttle profile, etc.).
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:56 AM   #18416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
you are talking boosted for those top rpms? the value of ~9000 is the motor alone, not software timing. and they are based on what most manufactures use for kV ratings of a 17.5 motor
Yes, per the set-up on the PDF.

Mike Slaughter
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:59 AM   #18417
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Originally Posted by masterhit View Post
Yes, per the set-up on the PDF.

Mike Slaughter
you ever log the throttle position and over lay it with the rpm? do you see a dip in rpm right when you see 100% throttle? if you ever figure that out, lmk. i have never figured that phenom out. it does not happen when the pack is fresh, but after a little bit, you start to see the dip in rpm. i always wonder if that is because we are not seeing a high enough resolution on the samples to get a real rpm at that time.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:49 AM   #18418
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
it does not happen when the pack is fresh, but after a little bit, you start to see the dip in rpm. i always wonder if that is because we are not seeing a high enough resolution on the samples to get a real rpm at that time.
I have not run with throttle position yet. However, we have definitely experienced some falling off. My theory was that (and not knowing all the parameters on how the Tekin applies boost and turbo) with high end RPMs the motor was no longer getting out of the boost range and the decrease we saw was the lack of turbo kicking in as the pack went flat.

I have ran with the voltage logger and the packs do take a beating and the correlation is fairly obvious. This resulted in us dropping the end RPM down to the 6k range. I will dig up the raw data, but the first 3-6 laps are absolutely phenomenal with the Tekin and then they drop off hard.

My usual mule is a Black Diamond. I lose up front but at the end I am matching Tekin times. Were basically trying to figure out why the Tekin drops so hard.

For reference, I have lap time data and run with some of the fastest carpet racers each week at Rapid Competition in Grand Rapids MI. Our mains consist of multiple ROAR champions, multiple year Cleveland winners (including last years), and even Worlds finalists.

Not bragging, just putting that out there that we can run consistent laps with some of the best for comparison. Your mileage may very, this is only worth the price paid, etc......

Mmmmmm! I love me some data!!!

Mike Slaughter

Last edited by masterhit; 11-23-2010 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:02 AM   #18419
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yeah, i was not talking about turbo. i do see the turbo actually kicking in, but it is not as dramatic as at the beginning of the pack. but if you watch the first sample after the 100% throttle sample, you will see the rpm drops about 500.

as far as the trubo, it think it is because most are over timing the motor and by the end of the run, the timing is not as effective at boosting rpm and just generates heat. I think if you bump the timing down and then watch the logger, you will see a more consistent spike in rpm as turbo kicks in even at the end of the run. that is what i saw when 203 first came out. we ran the loggers for hours and on several cars. consistently they showed the turbo kicking in, but much less effective on boosting RPM at the end of the run, if we put a lot of timing/tubo in on the setup.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:59 AM   #18420
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I had a strange problem this weekend running 212 with no boost in 17.5 tc. Mostly always run Throttle Profile 3, but thought I would try to smooth things out and try TP2. When I did this the car would not respond to forward throttle input at all and if I pushed brake the car would go forward like an on off switch. Tried recalibrating the esc to the radio but still wouldn't recognize throttle input, only brake. Tried reversing the throttle on the radio, same thing. Went back to TP3 and all was normal again. Toggled back and forth between TP3 and 2, everytime I select TP2 it does the same thing. Anybody else ever have a similar issue? It wasn't really a problem as I just ran TP3 and put neg expo in the radio, but still thought it was strange.
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