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Old 04-02-2008, 07:35 PM   #16
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In the total scope of everything RC, Just how many Amps do you require from your packs? I thought mod motors pull in the neighbor hood of 30 amps or so? Even the orion 4800 15C pack will pull 72 amps with a burst of 150. Are you sure your not getting C ratings confused with IR? I really dont see how anyone can feel a differance in C ratings, most packs are going to be able to supply atleast 2x-3x the power requirements you will ever use.
Improving the C rate will improve the IR and average voltage of the pack thus giving better performance.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:44 PM   #17
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It is like asking the government to control us more. ROAR does not need to make a standard for C rating.

People will use what works best on the track. This is the same as NIHM cells.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:04 AM   #18
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I'm sure improving C rating does have advantages, such as slighly better IR, and maybe more voltage. But in my own experiance, it soo small the avarage racer will not notice. I've been using all sort of lipos in my planes, heli's, boats, and now cars. I for one cannot tell between from my 15C and 20C packs.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:01 AM   #19
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None of this really matters. Until we see some of the Top RC Drivers winning with LiPo's in their cars, LiPo's will continue to mostly be used for bashing, practicing, and club racing. This past weekend we had a big race where only 3 of the top 10 ran LiPo's. While the LiPo cars/drivers put down some fast laps, they were only within .150 seconds of the fastest drivers running NiMh batteries, and on average finished lower since overall power/punch remains lower from a LiPo. FYI - I'm not bashing, I don't run NiMh's anymore, LiPo exclusive.

If you want ROAR to do more regarding LiPo's batteries, then ask ROAR to create a "Race-Spec" standard. By this I mean a LiPo battery package based upon min/max Size and Weight.

A standardized LiPo battery pack would allow all the manufacturers out there to base a new car/truck/buggy design on a specific set of measurements, and for all LiPo manufacturers to focus on "Race-Spec" battery packs. Leave it to the LiPo manufacturers to determine what cells, mah and C-Rating they want. If they perform, and people win races with them, they will sell. Besides, all the car manufacturers engineer these things to death, so having a controlled LiPo battery by size/weight would be the same as other items in the ROAR rulebook like car width/length/weight, wheel/rim diameter, body dimensions, motor diameter, battery voltage and types, etc..., so why not LiPo battery size/weight?

My point is, the difference between 15C, 20C, 25C, and 28C doesn't matter to the average Joe. He is probably more concerned about capacity and fitment.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:58 AM   #20
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None of this really matters. Until we see some of the Top RC Drivers winning with LiPo's in their cars, LiPo's will continue to mostly be used for bashing, practicing, and club racing. This past weekend we had a big race where only 3 of the top 10 ran LiPo's. While the LiPo cars/drivers put down some fast laps, they were only within .150 seconds of the fastest drivers running NiMh batteries, and on average finished lower since overall power/punch remains lower from a LiPo. FYI - I'm not bashing, I don't run NiMh's anymore, LiPo exclusive.

If you want ROAR to do more regarding LiPo's batteries, then ask ROAR to create a "Race-Spec" standard. By this I mean a LiPo battery package based upon min/max Size and Weight.

A standardized LiPo battery pack would allow all the manufacturers out there to base a new car/truck/buggy design on a specific set of measurements, and for all LiPo manufacturers to focus on "Race-Spec" battery packs. Leave it to the LiPo manufacturers to determine what cells, mah and C-Rating they want. If they perform, and people win races with them, they will sell. Besides, all the car manufacturers engineer these things to death, so having a controlled LiPo battery by size/weight would be the same as other items in the ROAR rulebook like car width/length/weight, wheel/rim diameter, body dimensions, motor diameter, battery voltage and types, etc..., so why not LiPo battery size/weight?

My point is, the difference between 15C, 20C, 25C, and 28C doesn't matter to the average Joe. He is probably more concerned about capacity and fitment.
ROAR already has LiPo rules which regulate battery dimensions.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:36 PM   #21
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Xtreme2008: I have never mentioned that the Core packs would not be 20C based on the industry standard to test Lipos C rate. I'm pretty sure they would be 20C. Our 28C packs are true 28C packs based on the industry standard. We have posted the graphs on our Lipo thread.

I really don't see what ROAR would have to do with this and I don't think they would want to invest in the equipment to test C rate as it's very expensive to get accurate equipment that can load a cell in the 140+ amp range.

Since SMC, REEDY , Core , Maxamps , Checkpoint , Orion and others are only buying packs and reselling them we have nothing to do with C rate. We use the C rate that is provided to us by the manufacturer.

SMC decided to cycle all packs on the T35GFX so we show the consumer what he's getting and this also allows us to see if any packs are faulty or not up to standards. This is an extra step to costs money but we feel it's the way it should be done. All our competitors have access to the T35GFX and can do the same as what we do.
Rick, would say it be fair to say that some mfr's "c" ratings are more accurate than others? I'm hearing that's the case. Therefore it would be nice to know which mfr's are putting out the "accurate ratings" and in turn who our suppliers (SMC, REEDY etc) are reselling from. From the end user perspective it would be nice to know. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:01 PM   #22
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Rick, would say it be fair to say that some mfr's "c" ratings are more accurate than others? I'm hearing that's the case. Therefore it would be nice to know which mfr's are putting out the "accurate ratings" and in turn who our suppliers (SMC, REEDY etc) are reselling from. From the end user perspective it would be nice to know. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
That's exactly one of my points. How can this keep going on? Who is telling us the truth about "C" rating? Danny/SMC is proving that C rating actually is very important factor in on track performance. Danny has the test data and equipment and has shown info on his posts and comment more on this. So as a consumer I like to know what C rating I'm getting, as well as mah, voltage, IR, etc. Imagine, different manufatures were selling packs claiming they're 4000mah packs, yet there were different ways each manufaturer came up with those numbers?

Its misleading and plain out wrong and dishonest.

What is the industry standard for determinig true C rating for Lipos? If there are more than one used in the profession what are they and where can we read about these methods?
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:11 PM   #23
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This topic has been discussed on the rcgroups.com forums for several years... ever since airplane guys were taking apart laptop batteries to salvage cells.

It has always been open to interpretation to some degree.

Even if there was some "standard" testing methods put in place, I think it would be like the BCS computer polls in college football... people would still argue about whether it's right or not, etc....
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:15 PM   #24
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I think this is a non-issue from ROAR's standpoint. ROAR is not the law, and what you are complaining about is a legal issue of the company making false claims. If you can prove that 'x' manufacturer is telling a fib, make a frivolous lawsuit and take them to court and lose your money employing a lawyer...
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