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Old 04-10-2008, 02:55 PM   #76
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wow easy with rubber sucks foam sucks deal lol....both have thier place.That being said we can't run every class everyone wants.We will have a good look at it in the coming weeks.And let you guys know exactly what we are going to run.

As far as masters class,1/12 master will be ran for sure tc masters is up in the air at the moment as is a rubber class.

I know the long list of things that were wrong last year.

Somethings that we have done away with already Hopefully to your happyness.

The old floor is gone we have been working a new setup for this year but we won't buy the wood till much closer to the race.

the old pizza is out what will take it's place I don't know I want wings lol

new width boxes (thanks to ray adams,zack adams,bob chester for the help)

A new schedule program is also in the works(thanks steve kelly)

The barrier system will be CRC's click track system.

The race order will change as well less back to back problems. it will look something like this
TC Stock
1/12 Stock
TC 19 turn
that should fix that problem with the breaks and forth.

I am already working with the tech crew now as to not have any problems later.

I won't sit here and tell you it's going to be perfect how would I know that now lol I wish but I am working on it PM me if you have any questions I will let you know what I can. I stop by from time to time but I can't always reply.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #77
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This is the only way to bring foam tire back. We are now at the point rubber tire was 7-8 years ago. What brought rubber back? SPEC TIRES- we need Purple and plaid

Oddly enough, I have been thinking this way for a while, and everybody I mention the idea to either is on board immediately or had the same idea as well. I have switched to rubber tire, since foam is dead in my area. I think foams are great, but the tire bills and peeled tires are adding up to be too great for most.
I like the idea of a handout foam tire like you said it did wonders for rubber would that be something everyone could get behind? Rubber aside of course.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #78
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or8ital,

I know it for a fact. Our local track ran for a year with VERY high bite when the track was treated i.e. flip off the track traction. rubber tires were NEVER run on it the first year it was down. the VERY first week we ran rubber tires (a year after it was put down) the track fuzzed up and traction instantly went down. From then on traction has been less for touring and 12th foam. 12th scales began getting loose and we had to switch to synthetic compounds like yellows and greys. pinks and magentas were too loose b/c they picked up more fuzz.

Nashrcracer can attest to it to... I wasn't sure what caused it either until this year when we started running rubber tires at our track.
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:59 PM   #79
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I'd run touring again if it went to handout foams... I spend enough on 12th tires at a big race I don't want to spend that much on touring too... I'm not made of money LOL
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:03 PM   #80
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We have had a different experience at Tri-State in Ohio. They added rubber tires and the temp of the track seems to play a MUCH MUCH bigger role in traction then the fact the rubber tires are running. We have all kinds of traction rolling problems on warm days but in the mornings when its cool you fight to get traction. The fact that people are traction rolling leads me to believe there is plenty of traction for everyone.

Just my opinion, sounds like your experience is different.

Sorry to be off topic. Im fortunate enough to live within driving distance of this race so Id love to one day race there with rubber tires. So I guess thats my bias.
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:14 PM   #81
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that would be true except in the case of 12th scales... at least at our track and the big races we have attended recently...

at our track we ran a couple of weeks ago traction was "high" for the rubber tire guys as they were traction rolling. however 12th scales were still loose. for whatever reason on a track where rubber tires are run there is "bite" but the 12th scales only gain front traction they don't seem to gain any rear traction and it causes the cars to oversteer and become loose. we can make the situation "better" with grey and yellow rears, but its a bandaid. I'm sure if the track every totally "defuzzes" it would be better. yes we vacuum it...

I know at big races they vacuum it and it gets better by the end of the weekend, but it totally throws out your first 2 or 3 practice runs at a big race altogether in 12th you have no bite and you can't even push the car at all. then slowly gets better. Its not a big deal as everyone says we are all in the same boat.

I run 12th and I'm biased LOL so I'm not hatin on you LOL
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:41 PM   #82
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I'd run touring again if it went to handout foams... I spend enough on 12th tires at a big race I don't want to spend that much on touring too... I'm not made of money LOL
I agree with Skeen on this one. Handout foam and I'm in, otherwise rubber tires for me.
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:44 PM   #83
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So you need to drop one class to add Pro 10. I would just like to see a stock rubber tires class; I bet you would have just as many entries as stock foam would. From seeing the entries at Vegas and Snowbirds they have to be on to something right..

Have you guys thought about dropping the 19T class? My first year at Clv was 01 and you could either run stock mod or masters, sedan or 12th. And the house was packed..
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:09 PM   #84
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Why not be the first race with spec foam tires? The novak was the first with all brushless. Even if you went spec for 19t and stock, it would be a great way to separate from the other races.
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:19 PM   #85
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Looks to me like racers want to run rubber. Run rubber and the 1/12 guys can adjust their cars.

That is what racing is about right, tuning equipment.

Just becouse one group of racers has an effect on the track some dont like lets not run an entire other group of cars.

I am not saying that rubber should come to Cleavland it just seems like some always what things their way regaurdless of what other groups or classes of racers want.
Boice: Thanks for the props, last year I was lacking in my duties due to some personal issues. This year I'll be full bore again. Mr. Bill, Bill Jr. and everyone else involved work very hard to put this race on, we know there are areas in need of improvement and we're working to address those. Last year I thought we improved in some areas, but still more is needed.

Actually, since The Champs is THE BIGGEST 12th scale race in the WORLD, and TC, rubber or not, is dying in popularity in this country, I don't see a need to add rubber. Wasn't the biggest class at the Nats atock 12th scale?We don't limit the number of 12th scale entries to make room for more TC's or cut down on the time it takes to run a round. We are the LAST race that doesn't treat 12th scale as a red-headed stepchild, which at this point is really cool for us as 12th scale begins to regain ground on the skinny 4wd dirt cars

I get so sick of the rubber vs. foam debate. It doesn't matter what you run, people are gonna bitch. If you run both, it hurts the track for what is once again the core class. If we do run rubber, I hope Jack gets the Jaco premount situation sorted, 'cause lord knows the rubber guys have done nothing but bitch about the new standard tire for their class.

Long Live the Champs.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:43 PM   #86
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Whats up Sobottka? school going well?

Ian... Yup thats why I like the champs 12th isn't the red headed step-child there LOL

To be fair I like touring too and as sad as it is to say I like rubber tire asphalt just b/c once you get your setup no checking ride height, droop, or truing tires and not worrying about rollout once you got it geared right. its the lazy mans touring car LOL
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:32 PM   #87
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I mentioned it several months ago, but handout foam tires might be kind of cool. Make it real simple. Purple only. You get one set with your entry and you can purchase up to 3 or 4 more complete sets. If someone feels another racer is cheating by using another compound just break out a durometer.

This creates issues of who is going to be the handout tire. Does Jaco monopolize on all of the big races for foam and rubber? This would be horrible to other manufacturers and will put a serious dent into their business. For this reason I do not see it happening and probably shouldn't happen.

Question. Why are mod entries usually only $5 - $10 cheaper? That makes no sense when you are charging $25-$28 for extra stock motors. If a stock entry is $80 with a motor; modified should be $25 less. Or lower the cost to something reasonable ($35-$50) and bring your own motor. It worked at the Nationals and I did not hear of any issues. This is not only for Cleveland, but most of the major races.
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:33 PM   #88
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I say Old days were best racing ever..Either you were Stock OR Mod....Drop 19T touring and 1/12.... and Add Rubber Stock and Pro 10 watch race sell Out!!
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:43 PM   #89
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I agree with what John Tag wrote. After all, what exactly is the purpose of 19T to begin with? Is it for those that are better than stock, but not good enough for mod?

And, maybe it's time to add in a stock rubber class!
What pre-mounted handout tire would be the drivers choice?

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Old 04-10-2008, 07:50 PM   #90
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I mentioned it several months ago, but handout foam tires might be kind of cool. Make it real simple. Purple only. You get one set with your entry and you can purchase up to 3 or 4 more complete sets. If someone feels another racer is cheating by using another compound just break out a durometer.

This creates issues of who is going to be the handout tire. Does Jaco monopolize on all of the big races for foam and rubber? This would be horrible to other manufacturers and will put a serious dent into their business. For this reason I do not see it happening and probably shouldn't happen.

Question. Why are mod entries usually only $5 - $10 cheaper? That makes no sense when you are charging $25-$28 for extra stock motors. If a stock entry is $80 with a motor; modified should be $25 less. Or lower the cost to something reasonable ($35-$50) and bring your own motor. It worked at the Nationals and I did not hear of any issues. This is not only for Cleveland, but most of the major races.
actually roar is $80 bucks for every class and no handouts at all for any class
I believe so was snowbirds. I don't know if anyone else other then jaco that makes rubber tires I know rp30's were popular for a bit but I don't think you can get them anymore.
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