Next Gen Touring Cars - Will they be designed for Lipo?
 

Im just wondering all your thoughts on this..... Any one seen any prototypes?

Im using a antique of a Yok-SD now and am in the market for a new Car....

Something tells me to wait till 2009 cars are out...

What you think?

I would say not exclusively but but maybe a 3rd chassis option(rubber,foam,lipo). The rest of the world still has not jumped on board.

I don't see why all the companies releasing Lipo batteries don't add weight inside the case to make them similar in weight to the current batteries so cars don't need to be redesigned and everyone doesn't have to go out and buy new cars if Lipo's become the standard. I believe some companies have done this with their Lipo batts, all of them should.

I agree with you there. Maxamps is the only company that I know that makes a 2S 14oz lipo.

Yes I too Agree also but still 3 factors..

1- Size adding wt to inside hard case will increase size so those may yet fit even less cars.

2- Currently we are not sure weather ballance is best with lipos with wt added to top,side or below packs all cars react diffrent from current designs and wt ballance.

3- Say you add 220 grams to a lipo to make up to wt of a std battery, What's to say thats good for brand X Chassie which is right at wt limit. Where Brand Y Chassie is already heavy and fully loaded Lipo with wt added will make that car heavy again.

Seems there will be a needed guide line for lipos and that needs to become standard for time to come . Then chassie companys car make a car to take lipos correctly.

Just my thoughts...

Because it's silly, and this is a better idea:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=213504

One nice thing about adding your own weight is you can pick where it goes, and maybe do a better job with ballast. There's enough weighting solutions now that it's not really hard to do. You can also hang the weight way out to the right side and get a little more leverage, which makes balancing easier.

As for designing cars around LiPo, that might be tough considering many car designers are in areas where 5 cell has become the norm.

It will never happen. Not all RC's need to add weight, in fact racing is a small part of RC and bashers in most cases welcome the lighter packs. Look at the new LiPo's coming out and look at how many run the new Traxxas connector and that will lead you to basis of my point. ;)

One of the best features of lipo is reduced weight. Why change to a lipo if you want it to be like a NiMH?

I'm going to have 2 chassis made that will be spefic for lipos, but not for the hard cased lipos though. I could make some changes that would allow the hard cased lipos to be used.

This type of pack is already available and on the market. It is the same size and weight as a NiMH.

http://www.maxamps.com/Lipo-5000SS-74.htm

Personally i would like to see them bulk up things like arms, hubs, etc.

I run an Xray T2 with an Orion 3600 and 4800 lipo, I added the weight to the outer side of the lipo and didn't have to change anything with my setup, I couldn't even tell the difference between lipo and nimh, handling wise I mean.

Hallelujah! Well, except for unsprung weight concerns.

It continues to amaze me that so many RC people think you make a racing car faster and better handling by adding weight. Incredible. Hope you don't have any carbon fibre or aluminum on your car, that stuff will really slow ya down.

And if your concern is new cars & batteries, then run the old ones. I've ran a 14 year old car recently, had a blast, plan to do it some more. Wish I could revive some 1400s for it to really relive my mispent youth. Am going to update to new tires though!

Change the rules to reflect LiPO's

Lower the min weight!
Put a max on capacity! 4800mah should be enough, but I would perfer lower.

With a max capacity rule as the technology gets better with LiPO, the battery packs will start thinning down to the thickness of the Orion Carbon packs or smaller. It won't end the battery war, but it should help remove the chase for the most amps that can be drawn in 5-min.

I think this is exactly right. With the loss of weight due to going lipo, I think we should see a little more bulk in the hubs and all. I think this could also have a positive impact on the hobby as well...less maintenance AND more durability????

I also think it would be, in a sense, counter-productive at this time since the shape of touring car lipos hasn't 'really' been standardized. They're blocks now; who knows in 6-8-12months. Not to mention other non-nimh/li-po tech that's on the come up.

Exactly. I've used my 2200mAh packs in a 1/8 scale buggy for over 20 minutes. I've used the same pack in my 1/10 TC3 for over 15 minutes. I know it wasn't race conditions, but I'm sure they can handle 5 or so minutes without any issue. The only bad thing is that they are 3S lipos.

i dont think the weight should be reduced for lipos bcause if so 98% of the cars tc's wouldnt work because they would not be balanced so to redesign would take a decent amount of time. so it would be stupid to drop weight now at least until tc's were redesigned and everyone is on the same page. li pos are just really good for the non spon. or for people with lite pockets. i think the switch to li pos would be very good for the hobby, because the cars are really getting out of hand with horsepower. nic metals are faster so just use lipos and lets go racin. 10.5 should be the mod class, those 3.5, 4.5 are just crazy, we love our horsepower until someone gets seriously hurt by a out of control monster horsepower car. then were going to have major restrictions put on these thinks, so lets stay ahead of the game and prevent this before it happens.....

instead of roar doing away with the 10.5 class because its to close the mod how about doing away with anything higher than a 10.5. whats next putting puting wings on the things or what, its just getting out of hand. if you want that much power run nitro where their is a lot more room for error and usually the spectators are behind the fence, or just further away. i think 10.5 is plenty to keep people ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhh and awwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn

Yep, I'm sure they will.
But technology will soon bypass the new designs within a year is my guess.

Incorrect. See here:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=213504

Most of the cars do not need to be rebalanced or great changes in design.
Yes the pro's will want the newest and greatest, but for many club racers their cars will work just fine.

First, let me say ingnore the min weight rules. The rules can change, and most likely will due to LiPOs.

So before you start adding lead to the battery try, try taking weight off the electronics side. Lighter Motor, Lighter/Shorter Servo, Lighter/Smaller ESC, Lighter RX, shorten all the wiring. It should be somewhat easy to find 50 to 60g to remove off the electronics side to off set the lighter weight lipo.

that guy has really good ideas and opinions but as of right now the weight limit is what it is and lipos are at a disadvantage with the current weight. take a tc with lipo no added weight get the car balanced by moving things around, and make 10.5 the mod class

Why limit mod to 10.5? 10.5 are far from being close to a 4.5 or 3.0 in speed....

i think he is referring to the '09 ROAR motor rules placing the 10.5 into mod... perhaps not but those are the plans either way.

it might be a big horse power difference but the lap times are very close, not close enough that it should be considered a mod but left alone as a 19t/10.5 class. i hate when roar starts messing with the popular classes and run people away because of their changes instead they should be focusing on the classes that doesn't draw many entries and find ways to make it more appealing without disturbing the other classes. mod is the class that needs the most help, mostly all factory guys. quite a few factory guys even admit that the horsepower is just ridiculous if their is no limit where does it end.

I don't think this is true.

How could a LiPo be at a disadvantage? You can add weight to simulate NiMh to balance a LiPo, but you cannot remove weight to simulate LiPo with NiMh...so advantage clearly LiPo...more versatile.

NiMh are faster, if lipos were faster i sure paul, baker etc etc would be running them. how many factory guys ran lipos at the nats, well rick and who else.

Factory guys run NIMH cuz theyre sponsored by matchers and get them for free....or close to it.:D

ok so your saying that of all the factory guys rick was the only one who ran for a battery company who offered lipos?

Let's hope we get cars designed for Lipos, that the weight distribution has balanced L / R and we can reduce the minimum race weight of our cars to get better tire wear and longer run times. This is long overdue IMHO.

To answer the question of the thread will we see Lipo designed cars? For now I would say no... North America is the only place where is Lipo is legalized for sanctioned racing and since almost all cars are designed overseas and overseas still only runs NIMH cells I doubt they would come out with a completely Lipo designed car. I can see that manufacturers designing cars for NIMH cells but adjust designs to accommodate Lipo, much like what most companies already do now, but at least for the next couple years I do not see any company coming out with a Lipo only car...

I'd disagree that it is "long" overdue. LiPo's are just now being accepted in the US amongst racers, and safer hard packs are just being designed. We are in a transition phase..I'd expect prob. 2 years of this min. Balance your car to suit your needs and enjoy the other benifits of LiPo...like only needing 2 packs instead of 6 for racing and practice.

I really doubt that a few oz's difference will make much impact on tire wear or runtime....possibly slight. ;)

I have had my Orion hard case lipo's for almost two years, the rate of the acceptance has taken too long, for anyone who has wasted money and time on inferior IB, EP, etc sub-c cells over the years. Plus the extra equipment you must own, transport - waste of time and money, if they waste another two years on the change-over kiss even more racers goodby out of the hobby.

If you doubt the tire wear issue, talk to racers who run 4 instead of 6 cells, it does make a difference.

Comparing 4 to 6 cell tire wear is not the same as as just loosing weight. You have alot more voltage applied to tire spin that needs to be considered. But...my point is, most racers have not been running Lipo 2 years because they haven't had near equal power that long (IMO). The packs coming out over the last year have improved to the point the NiMh guys are finally letting go...in some cases slowly.

What are you really loosing that would make you leave the hobby over?? Adding a couple oz's of weight is enough to make you leave...I dont get that. There will be chassis for lipo prob. before 2 years I bet...little by little I think they'll be offered as an option to begin....but rule changes will lag behind...and they have to ....otherwise they force too many people to HAVE to buy new chassis and electronics...how many people does that drive away??

Wow I just started running Lipo's for two weeks and could care less about cars being designed specifacilly for lipo. There are enough cars out there that will fit lipos with out mods. I added some weight for balance if you want to call that a mod but that was it.....
Nobody is leaving this hobby anytime soon especially with the convenience of Spectrum, brushless systems, and now lipo. IMO this is the best time to get started.....

My biggest expense now are tires and CVD joints... Thats what happens when you get more track time vs wrench time. lol

What you experienced in the last two weeks using Lipo, myself and many others experienced 2 yrs ago, the convenience of the batteries are just amazing when compared to sub-c's. Now just think two years from now, they are still messing around with chassis's and races, etc that are being designed for sub-c's, you would think it is silly and possibly a waste of time and money. The arguement for a slow adoptment of the lipo battery technology has been safety and that everyone will have to re-buy equipment and batteries, etc, safety has been proven to be a non-issue and with sub-c's you are buying those packs through-out the race season anyway - that is if you want to be competitive, and as far as new chassis, I have seen more new chassis's come and go from Tamiya, Losi, Xray, Associated then I care to count. Most racers I know have to buy at least a new car each year if for no other reason that to replace the worn out chassis that have been running throughout the season. So the argument for replacement just doesn,t make much sense, especially after two years.

I am in full agreement, the hobby has never been better to participate in, with spektrum, brushless and lipos, but don't drag the conversion to lipo specific chassis's for another 2 years, this is not necessary. The great thing about lipos is the battery packs can be made into just about any shape a chassis designer could want. What is stopping Tamiya, from designing a car with a custom designed battery pack from Kokam, specifically shaped for its chassis design, helping to create the elusive perfect balance? The packs will last easily a year or two, by that time you will want a new chassis and new packs anyway - IMHO we have a technology that can take RC cars to the next level of handling, convenience, and possibly better wear and tear - just a thought.

All that would need to be done is for the FK04 or Tamiya 414 to be reborn with the minor refinements. That chassis layout would be great for lipos or sub c.