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Old 02-05-2010, 04:41 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by decibels View Post
Guys if you crank up the time shift then you will be slow when you are feathering the throttle!! because when turbo is activated it seems to only have rip when you hit full throttle!! This is why i am prefering turbo1 and a bit of motor timing!! because the motor naturally wants to perform down low with motor timing and when you hit turbo it wants to rocket! now remember turbo on this speedy is different to every other it seems to ramp current to the motor which produces power and as a side effect seems to give more rpm as well or timing as most people refer. turbo 2 definately adds timing on top as well. but always remember time shift will not give you more timing with turbo switched on. now i have had no success with timing on turbo 2 but i had a test firmware from original prototype which i now have version b so will test a bit more and let you know!!
Wouldn't motor timing put down to the lowest would give you the biggest torque (acceleration) out of a corner? Then timing kicks in as your motor revs up then turbo would give you the extra kick in the straight? This is my theory at least... maybe all wrong unlike you I did not get to test it yet on a track
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:53 AM   #947
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Originally Posted by cvt01 View Post
Wouldn't motor timing put down to the lowest would give you the biggest torque (acceleration) out of a corner? Then timing kicks in as your motor revs up then turbo would give you the extra kick in the straight? This is my theory at least... maybe all wrong unlike you I did not get to test it yet on a track
The theory is correct but with turbo on the bottom end is a bit slow and does not have much before turbo cuts in then there is a big jump! Now if you crank the time shift then it seems softer before turbo! But if you add some timing you get more rpm before turbo kicks in because at same throttle input it has more speed and when you back the time shift down you get more punch. And with the extra timing you also get more top end when you hit turbo. but if you go to far you actually confuse the speed control as i have found out on a motor dyno! but that was with older software. And i've been to busy to check with the newer software. hopefully i can do some testing and get back to all of you on some better up to date info but this has been my fastest setup to date. By the way brushless generates torque straight away so it is more a case of where the main surge of power is and the more timing the more power at a particular point.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:24 AM   #948
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Default Turbo Meaning

cvt01 and decibels

you all get it now! congratulates!


the fact is There is the real Turbo,
yes it was mostly about Timing finding it's best Torque,
some of them called Turbo, but in fact it's not really true.

The step

For it's best timing is set to it's Max Torque.
when RPM rise to it's limits Timings Advanced Moved.
More RPM to produce.
when RPM reach it's limits again,
here comes What you called Turbo
(mostly they are not really Turbo mix Timing)
and then RPM rise again,
after it reach its RPM limits, and the Amps Draw low enough.

there is the Real Turbo, you can find it look's like
example
1S Smart Boost, this will rise 3.6v to 6v.
but build inside ESC
That, is where your RPM at certain kV Rise and that is the real TURBO.
where it work's on very limited time,
after that it will returned to Dynamic Timing.

that is why Dynamic Timing is also required.
to find it's best torque Kt.
and not to forget Timing Change your kV.

This is why TeamWave Recomend
not to use Capacitor, cause it will
ruin the whole system.http://www.rctech.net/forum/5923175-post341.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/5938200-post351.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...system-23.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEAMWAVE View Post
Never use "supercap" !! It is a burden to the whole system and won't help !
.
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Last edited by AdminD; 02-05-2010 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:43 AM   #949
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Would the RB 30 work on a sensorless 17 turn b/l , if not geared too high ??(in a 1/10th pan car on 2s)
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:02 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by AdminD View Post
cvt01 and decibels

you all get it now! congratulates!


the fact is There is the real Turbo,
yes it was mostly about Timing finding it's best Torque,
some of them called Turbo, but in fact it's not really true.

The step

For it's best timing is set to it's Max Torque.
when RPM rise to it's limits Timings Advanced Moved.
More RPM to produce.
when RPM reach it's limits again,
here comes What you called Turbo
(mostly they are not really Turbo mix Timing)
and then RPM rise again,
after it reach its RPM limits, and the Amps Draw low enough.

there is the Real Turbo, you can find it look's like
example
1S Smart Boost, this will rise 3.6v to 6v.
but build inside ESC
That, is where your RPM at certain kV Rise and that is the real TURBO.
where it work's on very limited time,
after that it will returned to Dynamic Timing.

that is why Dynamic Timing is also required.
to find it's best torque Kt.
and not to forget Timing Change your kV.

This is why TeamWave Recomend
not to use Capacitor, cause it will
ruin the whole system.http://www.rctech.net/forum/5923175-post341.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/5938200-post351.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...system-23.html


.
Could you please try to rephrase the above post, I just don't get it. Also when you are saying not to use the capacitor, what do you mean? The ESC comes with one soldered on. I guess you are referring to an extra capacitor, could you please confirm.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:36 AM   #951
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Originally Posted by cvt01 View Post
Could you please try to rephrase the above post, I just don't get it. Also when you are saying not to use the capacitor, what do you mean? The ESC comes with one soldered on. I guess you are referring to an extra capacitor, could you please confirm.
which one you don't get it ?

you can ask TeamWave,
about capacitor read again above post what TeamWave says.
Capacitor TeamWave
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:35 PM   #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdminD View Post
cvt01 and decibels

you all get it now! congratulates!


the fact is There is the real Turbo,
yes it was mostly about Timing finding it's best Torque,
some of them called Turbo, but in fact it's not really true.

The step

For it's best timing is set to it's Max Torque.
when RPM rise to it's limits Timings Advanced Moved.
More RPM to produce.
when RPM reach it's limits again,
here comes What you called Turbo
(mostly they are not really Turbo mix Timing)
and then RPM rise again,
after it reach its RPM limits, and the Amps Draw low enough.

there is the Real Turbo, you can find it look's like
example
1S Smart Boost, this will rise 3.6v to 6v.
but build inside ESC
That, is where your RPM at certain kV Rise and that is the real TURBO.
where it work's on very limited time,
after that it will returned to Dynamic Timing.

that is why Dynamic Timing is also required.
to find it's best torque Kt.
and not to forget Timing Change your kV.

This is why TeamWave Recomend
not to use Capacitor, cause it will
ruin the whole system.http://www.rctech.net/forum/5923175-post341.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/5938200-post351.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...system-23.html


.
Very interesting post, so if I have this right:

The standard brushless 'advanced' timing system works like this:

With the car stopped, no extra timing, only motor timing.

Once the motor reaches a certain RPM, the timing dynamically advances such that the torque remains maximum (I think this is the main advantage over standard ESCs).

When the throttle is applied to max, and the motor has a high enough RPM, the speedo adds a lot of timing to achieve maximum top speed - Tekin call this 'turbo'.

This is what I understand from a tekin post, and some thinking.

Now, are you saying that the Team Wave has another type of turbo also, one which actually influences the voltage, probably through variable internal resistance?

This might explain how those Black Diamond speed controls are so fast for 12th, if they can send more voltage to the motor, at the cost of current?

Why does the super capacitor bad? Only reason I can guess (total guess) is that there is a complicated LCR circuit created which slows the response of the extra voltage?

My understanding of electronics is not great though, and my basic knowledge can't explain how they could increase the voltage, can you try to explain?

I will race my RB-50 with RB-S software for the first time on Sunday, so I wan to try to maximise my setings, and not blow anything up!

Regards

Neal
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:15 PM   #953
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
This might explain how those Black Diamond speed controls are so fast for 12th, if they can send more voltage to the motor, at the cost of current?

Why does the super capacitor bad? Only reason I can guess (total guess) is that there is a complicated LCR circuit created which slows the response of the extra voltage?

My understanding of electronics is not great though, and my basic knowledge can't explain how they could increase the voltage, can you try to explain?
Correct !

i am not saying Super Capacitor bad,
for that you should asked TeamWave
it involved what inside TeamWave ESC.

you should see 1S Smart Booster, for an example


this thing increase voltage,
from the source : 1S Lipo Battery for example.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:58 PM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Very interesting post, so if I have this right:

The standard brushless 'advanced' timing system works like this:

With the car stopped, no extra timing, only motor timing.

Once the motor reaches a certain RPM, the timing dynamically advances such that the torque remains maximum (I think this is the main advantage over standard ESCs).

When the throttle is applied to max, and the motor has a high enough RPM, the speedo adds a lot of timing to achieve maximum top speed - Tekin call this 'turbo'.

This is what I understand from a tekin post, and some thinking.

Now, are you saying that the Team Wave has another type of turbo also, one which actually influences the voltage, probably through variable internal resistance?

This might explain how those Black Diamond speed controls are so fast for 12th, if they can send more voltage to the motor, at the cost of current?

Why does the super capacitor bad? Only reason I can guess (total guess) is that there is a complicated LCR circuit created which slows the response of the extra voltage?

My understanding of electronics is not great though, and my basic knowledge can't explain how they could increase the voltage, can you try to explain?

I will race my RB-50 with RB-S software for the first time on Sunday, so I wan to try to maximise my setings, and not blow anything up!

Regards

Neal
i believe that if you search back in this thread its explained by Team Wave...

Timeshift added timings... however turbo adds voltage... not sure how they doe it but more voltage equates to higher rpms since rpm is a function of Kv...

for example, when less than full throttle, voltage going to the motor in 7.4v pulses... but upon activation of turbo, internal circuitry ramps up the voltage of the pulses to say 8.4v... that is why you realise that the motor heats up very fast if you engage turbo for too long... more volts = more power and likewise resistance losses....

Maybe Team Wave can confirm....
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:14 PM   #955
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Did some racing last night in 10.5 TC with an RB-S on a tight indoor medium grip track. I set the nights fastest lap and according to some spectators had similar speed to the club champ with his Tekin.

After the racing I tested more endbell timing with my DUO 1. Middle hole was a noticeable improvement and last hole(most timing) was better. I had to gear down a lot but the end result was good. I did find that with max timing the speedo went into lipo cut a few times. I will try the RB-S b firmware to see if that helps.

I think more timming could be the answer to keep up with Tekins in 17.5?? I will test that soon with a Duo endbell on a Linear motor.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:09 AM   #956
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with more motor timing, did you use a low timeshift setting?
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:40 AM   #957
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Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
I think more timming could be the answer to keep up with Tekins in 17.5?? I will test that soon with a Duo endbell on a Linear motor.
Thanks you for your time with testing this gives me hope

if timing helps then time to sell my linear and opt for an adjustable motor.

cheers !
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:10 AM   #958
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Am running sp11.5t on rds with a 5.1 fdr. Problem is running on normal setting it works fine, but when i change the setting to 1x turbo, the performance is worse then the normal setting. Can anyone tell me why this happening? Rd-s is brand new, do i have to update the software? Or else does anyone has the same prob that im having?
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:35 PM   #959
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Originally Posted by katze View Post
i believe that if you search back in this thread its explained by Team Wave...

Timeshift added timings... however turbo adds voltage... not sure how they doe it but more voltage equates to higher rpms since rpm is a function of Kv...

for example, when less than full throttle, voltage going to the motor in 7.4v pulses... but upon activation of turbo, internal circuitry ramps up the voltage of the pulses to say 8.4v... that is why you realise that the motor heats up very fast if you engage turbo for too long... more volts = more power and likewise resistance losses....

Maybe Team Wave can confirm....

That is a pretty good understanding. The only thing that is really different is that Voltage is what moves the current and the current draw is determined by the resistance of the load (Motor) which in this case is dynamic. From how I gathered the information is that they can add voltage or Amplify it. The timing is actually how and when they apply voltage to the sections of the field in relationship to a fixed point that they know to be a certain value for this I would say 0 as a number to create a more "advanced" movement. You could look at a car with a distributor to understand this idea. When they rotate the pick up advance or retard they are doing the same thing just with the different sections of the motors stator.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:34 PM   #960
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Back from the raceday with rb-50 and rb-s firmware, here is what I've found:
- Brakes are somewhat weaker with the new software, there was a 180 hairpin at the end of the straigth and I had to brake much earlier than the rest of the field (an other rb user complained about this too). It can be that I just did not realize this before as this was the first time we had a turn like this since I got this speedo. In the infield the brakes were more than enoguh.
- speedpassion 13.5 V3 does not like this ESC , it actually was fastest with a lot of gearing turbo off timeshift 7. Turbo 2x and timeshift 3 and timeshift 7 did not show big difference. The best setup was turbo off, rollout 4.42, timeshift 7 max motor timing - but it came out kinda hot (185-190-ish).
- then we tested it with a corally 10.5 and that was a whole different ballgame. The motor screamed like crazy and it was wicked fast with turbo 2x timeshift 7 and 35mm rollout.

Too bad we must use the speedpassion in our class. , we had an spx and bench raced the same motor on both ESCs (car was free wheeling) and the SPX looked like it just gonna blow the motor while the rb was nothing great we have seen when the turbo kicking in but the timing advance did not do much except in the program #7.

Dear Teamwave, could you please look into the issue as I can't come up with a sensible explanation why the the SP V3 is acting up like that. "goingfast" posted this concern earlier in the thread, altough he uses a 17.5 turn one. These two are most probably the same just different winds...
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