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Old 03-24-2008, 07:55 PM   #1
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Default Onroad Setup Tools and Tips

Does anyone know a good source of information on how to setup an onroad1/10 touring car for asphalt (parking lot) racing? I am running an old-school XXX-S and just started racing it for the first time. It's a whole lot different than just whipping around the street, and I've noticed that I'm having a lot of trouble setting the ride height to the recommended 1/4". It is riding substantially higher than that now, and I can't really figure out how to accurately measure the droop.

Also, do you recommend getting some sort of set up station, like the ones available from Integy? Is there a difference between the Integy 1 and 2 setup tables?

I realize that's a lot of questions at once, but after the debacle of my first race, I want to be better prepared the second time around. I've gone through, rebuilt the whole car, and done what I can to make sure that the car is as neutral as possible and the electronics are all set, now I just need some tips on tweaking, beyond what the manual can give me. Like rules of thumb and things to look out for.

Thanks, and if this thread turns into a repository for good information, then hopefully others can benefit too.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:24 PM   #2
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First question: How big is your budget?

The best, first advice you can get from anyone here is to seek out the 'free' advice from those you race with. There is a wealth of information that you can get at the track, either on practice days or race days.

The next thing, IMO, is to get a copy of XXX Main Chassis Setup Guide by Martin Crisp http://www.xxxmain.com/bookz.shtml.

Other than those starters, there are way too many variables to discuss sight-unseen: Shock Oil, Springs, Tire Diameter, Tire Compound, etc., etc.

After you check out the first two suggestions, come back and post a specific question, eg.: Why does my car's rear tires slip out when I accelerate out of a corner? It's much easier to help with options when we have more info to go on.

Good Luck and keep us posted...

Allan
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:29 PM   #3
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Download the XRAY Setup Book. Plenty of good tips and theory in it. Best of all, it is free.

http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/sho...p?file_id=2525
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Centerline Racing View Post
First question: How big is your budget?

The best, first advice you can get from anyone here is to seek out the 'free' advice from those you race with. There is a wealth of information that you can get at the track, either on practice days or race days.

The next thing, IMO, is to get a copy of XXX Main Chassis Setup Guide by Martin Crisp http://www.xxxmain.com/bookz.shtml.

Other than those starters, there are way too many variables to discuss sight-unseen: Shock Oil, Springs, Tire Diameter, Tire Compound, etc., etc.

After you check out the first two suggestions, come back and post a specific question, eg.: Why does my car's rear tires slip out when I accelerate out of a corner? It's much easier to help with options when we have more info to go on.

Good Luck and keep us posted...

Allan
Ironically, I had just placed an order with Tower earlier today with that book in it, so I am glad that I did because I couldn't really find any information on how good it was before I ordered it. Nice!

I'll see where I can get with that and then delve into the specifics on here when I need to start fine-tuning.

As for how big my budget is - well, it's not super-limited other than by how much I feel comfortable and justified spending. But seeing as I am trying to make it out of this house in Florida when I have to move next year, let's say roughly $300-400 of R/C stuff per month to be safe.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:46 AM   #5
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Their is a nice website here. http://users.pandora.be/elvo/
I hope it helps
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:00 AM   #6
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Ironically, I had just placed an order with Tower earlier today with that book in it...
Read the entire book, then read it again. For the most part, you'll use the last page summary chart the most. All the rest will just be for reference and to give you a better understanding of "why" and "how". This book sits in my pits and I use it between every run whenever I make an adjustment.

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...let's say roughly $300-400 of R/C stuff per month to be safe.
That's quite a big budget. You're envied by most here. Don't listen to what anyone says that you don't need a 10th scale setup station for indoor carpet or EP Asphalt. Get one! Even if it's a used one for 1/2 price, it is an indespensable tool. During the Nats in Omaha, I used mine between every single run during practice and heats to make sure that I started out with the exact setup that I wanted every single run. I love it. And, I found a cracked A-Arm before it broke by using the setup station. The adjustments were off so I investigated further and found a crack only visible when I put lateral stress on the arm.

Club racing is a little different, but if one wants to do good at a large race, it all starts at the local level. That is where good habits are formed and car understanding takes root.

Allan
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:07 PM   #7
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Read the entire book, then read it again. For the most part, you'll use the last page summary chart the most. All the rest will just be for reference and to give you a better understanding of "why" and "how". This book sits in my pits and I use it between every run whenever I make an adjustment.



That's quite a big budget. You're envied by most here. Don't listen to what anyone says that you don't need a 10th scale setup station for indoor carpet or EP Asphalt. Get one! Even if it's a used one for 1/2 price, it is an indespensable tool. During the Nats in Omaha, I used mine between every single run during practice and heats to make sure that I started out with the exact setup that I wanted every single run. I love it. And, I found a cracked A-Arm before it broke by using the setup station. The adjustments were off so I investigated further and found a crack only visible when I put lateral stress on the arm.

Club racing is a little different, but if one wants to do good at a large race, it all starts at the local level. That is where good habits are formed and car understanding takes root.

Allan

Do you have a preference on the setup station? I've seen some integy ones on Ebay for a good price, but I don't have any reference as to how good they are (and the advantages between getting the older or newer version of the two). Which one do you use?

That's like my max budget before I start feeling like I am just throwing money into the wind. Plus, I have been out of the hobby for almost 12 years so I have some catching up to do as far as parts, tools, batteries, etc. It will probably settle down in a few months when I don't have to catch up on what most racers already have laying around.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:49 PM   #8
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It will probably settle down in a few months when I don't have to catch up on what most racers already have laying around.
You'd think that it would...

Tires, never ending cost. Batteries, more of the same for NiMH. At least for good "race quality" packs.

Do yourself a favor and buy good tools. The old saying holds true in R/C, too. Buy good tools once, or cheap tools over and over.
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:00 PM   #9
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The Integy Setup Station 2 (with pit board) is a pain to use. If your setup station gets bumped, you have to stop the camber gauge from swinging. Get either the cheaper setup station plus pit board separately or buy the Hudy all in one setup station. The Hudy is hard to find currently, so its best to scour the for sale section and ebay, but it comes with everything you need.

Good tools brands to buy: Hudy and MIP. I prefer the Hudy for the bling, but the MIP because they do not roll.
Mugen Seiki and Losi also make great tools.
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:16 PM   #10
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If I had it to do over, I'd buy nothing but Hudy hand tools. The Integy ones are good, but not the spring steel like Hudy. I've replaced more tips than I care to remember.

I bought a used Integy setup station and love it. Hudy is spendy, but if I had the money for that, I'd buy it. I use the Integy built in tweak board along with the setup station.

Go right to Hakko for a soldier station. Heats up in less than 30 seconds, quick change tips are awesome. It's my third brand and most likely the last one I'll have to buy

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Old 03-25-2008, 06:23 PM   #11
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If I had it to do over, I'd buy nothing but Hudy hand tools.

Hudy is spendy, but if I had the money for that, I'd buy it. I use the Integy built in tweak board along with the setup station.

Go right to Hakko for a soldier station.
+1 on all three of these points. You can't go wrong buying Hudy tools. Everything they make is quality. Expensive, but quality costs. If you decide to race foam tires, Hudy's tire truers are great, too.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:37 PM   #12
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It looks like I can score an Integy setup station for $60 on ebay, or an Integy NT setup station for $83 (both of those include shipping). An Integy tweak board will set me back another $42.

Another option is this company:
http://www.rc-setup.com/products.html
but I don't see any associated tweak boards to go with their setup stations.
The bonus is that their setup station runs $50 with shipping on Ebay.

Am I correct in assuming that all of these will do the same job? This is an area I really haven't done a lot of research into (or seen much written about) so I'm taking my time to make the right decision. All of you are definitely giving me some good inputs though - I've learned a lot just from this thread alone

Right now I am just rocking some Dynamite hex drivers, but as those wear out I will replace them with some higher quality pieces. Not having been in this hobby when I actually had some cash to spend (when I was 13 or 14 and had to save up for that 1400 NiCd for a few weeks) I can be a little more discriminating at this point.

Thanks for the soldering gun tip - that's also on my short list of purchases.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:15 PM   #13
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Thanks for the soldering gun tip - that's also on my short list of purchases.
When you're ready to buy, LMK, there is a local company that I got mine from NIB for $70, 1 tip of my choice included less than 6 months ago. I can check with them on current price...

For the most part, setup stations do: f/r camber, front caster, f/r toe, l/r steering degrees.

A good all in one board will check tweak, ride height, droop, etc

Allan
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:45 PM   #14
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When you're ready to buy, LMK, there is a local company that I got mine from NIB for $70, 1 tip of my choice included less than 6 months ago. I can check with them on current price...

For the most part, setup stations do: f/r camber, front caster, f/r toe, l/r steering degrees.

A good all in one board will check tweak, ride height, droop, etc

Allan
I'll definitely let you know. It will probably be sometime in the next month or so.

I just got the xxx-main on-road book from Tower today, so I will be reading that over the next couple of days. I also should be getting a setup station from ebay next week, so I can least get a verified neutral setup for my car before I start asking a lot of questions that are easily fixed. I'll keep you posted - 2nd onroad race is next Sunday so hopefully it will go better this time!
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:16 PM   #15
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I never realized having a setup station was so key. My car was unbelievably off - I just had time to adjust the camber tonight and each wheel was different. Tomorrow I will get the caster and toe-in/toe-out dialed in.

Any tips for setting ride height? I'm using the springs that came with the kit, but it seems like the car is still about 1/4" too high, even with the shock collars up all the way (or is that wrong?).
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