Associated RC12R5
02-06-2011, 05:35 AM
#2747
i use Futaba S9650 servo. it really durable even if those gear still plastic.
02-06-2011, 09:25 PM
#2749
A few questions....
I'm looking to get back into RC racing after 4 years or so off, and looking at 12th scale. I have a small carpet course opening near me, going to be fairly tight. How does the 12r5 take to smaller courses? I'm sure the answer can be found somewhere in the nearly 200 pages but I'm not ready to read through all of them. I had a crc link car in the past and loved it. I must say the center shock deal looks more hi-tech yet simpiler than the damper tubes. Has durability been good? Looking for a solid starting point to jump back in.
I'm looking to get back into RC racing after 4 years or so off, and looking at 12th scale. I have a small carpet course opening near me, going to be fairly tight. How does the 12r5 take to smaller courses? I'm sure the answer can be found somewhere in the nearly 200 pages but I'm not ready to read through all of them. I had a crc link car in the past and loved it. I must say the center shock deal looks more hi-tech yet simpiler than the damper tubes. Has durability been good? Looking for a solid starting point to jump back in.
02-07-2011, 08:58 PM
#2750
nf_ekt: I found the shocks a little tricky to build, but I really like them. I've been told the o-ring can expand in really hot conditions and bind the shock, but last weekend I was racing outside in 40C heat with a track tem of > 65C and didn't have any problems.
In fact I want to get some more shocks to fill with different oil to save time. Does anyone know if there a part number to order a whole shock kit (incl. the balls and the grub screw) or do I have to buy all the individual pieces?
In fact I want to get some more shocks to fill with different oil to save time. Does anyone know if there a part number to order a whole shock kit (incl. the balls and the grub screw) or do I have to buy all the individual pieces?
02-08-2011, 03:21 AM
#2751
02-08-2011, 06:39 AM
#2752
nf_ekt: I found the shocks a little tricky to build, but I really like them. I've been told the o-ring can expand in really hot conditions and bind the shock, but last weekend I was racing outside in 40C heat with a track tem of > 65C and didn't have any problems.
In fact I want to get some more shocks to fill with different oil to save time. Does anyone know if there a part number to order a whole shock kit (incl. the balls and the grub screw) or do I have to buy all the individual pieces?
In fact I want to get some more shocks to fill with different oil to save time. Does anyone know if there a part number to order a whole shock kit (incl. the balls and the grub screw) or do I have to buy all the individual pieces?
02-08-2011, 02:56 PM
#2754
Thanks, I will take note of that. The only racing that will be taking place near me, to my knowledge, will be indoors so temp should not be an issue. The multiple shock thing is something to consider... I guess getting the shock that comes with the CRC gen Xl car might be one route since it looks to be a very quick procedure for swapping springs.
02-09-2011, 02:14 AM
#2755
I stand corrected
Michael
02-09-2011, 05:07 PM
#2756
No problem Michael, and thanks Serzoni.
I'm wanting to test the relationship between shock oil weight and spring rate in the pod movement. I realise that in general a softer pod equates to mover rear-end grip up to a point, but I'm trying to work out when I want to change oil and when I want to change springs. My previous 12th was a T-bar car, and I pretty much just ran the thinnest T-bar I could get away with, so this is somewhat new to me.
I'm guessing the answer has to do primarily with how the car behaves under change of directions, as well as straight line stability. My current feel is that a heavier oil will make the car slower to change directions, more stable in a straight line and more progressive in its turning, but it would also reduce overall rear end traction. Whereas a harder side-spring might make the car twitchier while reducing rear-end grip, without affecting change of direction too much. All of this assumes that the rear-end isn't so soft as to be lifting a wheel. An I on the right track here?
There is a particular spot on one track I race on that I have trouble with. Following a fast section, there is a right-hand hair-pin corner followed 5 m later by a left hand hair-pin and then a faster left hander. The car is unstable under acceleration out of the left-hand hair-pin and wants to spin. Could this mean the oil is too viscous, or do I just need a softer side-spring?
(The car takes those hair-pins better with the 5 degree king-pin angle, but it reduces high-speed steering that I need elsewhere on the track).
Another thing, Hooke's law means that the spring should produce a constant resistance through the majority of its range of movement, but the damping/resistance in the shock depends upon whether the flow of the oil through the piston is laminar or turbulent. Turbulent flow should occur if the shock is compressed quickly, normally that would be called 'pack', and would mean a greatly increased resistance to movement at that point. However, I don't have a good feel for which regime the side-shock is in most of the time.
It's a small shock with small pistons, so I'm guessing turbulent flow does occur at some point, perhaps on fast changes of direction, but I'd like some confirmation of this. I'd also like to know if we are in a regime where changing the oil viscosity is going to have much of an impact on where the 'pack' effect will kick in?
I'm wanting to test the relationship between shock oil weight and spring rate in the pod movement. I realise that in general a softer pod equates to mover rear-end grip up to a point, but I'm trying to work out when I want to change oil and when I want to change springs. My previous 12th was a T-bar car, and I pretty much just ran the thinnest T-bar I could get away with, so this is somewhat new to me.
I'm guessing the answer has to do primarily with how the car behaves under change of directions, as well as straight line stability. My current feel is that a heavier oil will make the car slower to change directions, more stable in a straight line and more progressive in its turning, but it would also reduce overall rear end traction. Whereas a harder side-spring might make the car twitchier while reducing rear-end grip, without affecting change of direction too much. All of this assumes that the rear-end isn't so soft as to be lifting a wheel. An I on the right track here?
There is a particular spot on one track I race on that I have trouble with. Following a fast section, there is a right-hand hair-pin corner followed 5 m later by a left hand hair-pin and then a faster left hander. The car is unstable under acceleration out of the left-hand hair-pin and wants to spin. Could this mean the oil is too viscous, or do I just need a softer side-spring?
(The car takes those hair-pins better with the 5 degree king-pin angle, but it reduces high-speed steering that I need elsewhere on the track).
Another thing, Hooke's law means that the spring should produce a constant resistance through the majority of its range of movement, but the damping/resistance in the shock depends upon whether the flow of the oil through the piston is laminar or turbulent. Turbulent flow should occur if the shock is compressed quickly, normally that would be called 'pack', and would mean a greatly increased resistance to movement at that point. However, I don't have a good feel for which regime the side-shock is in most of the time.
It's a small shock with small pistons, so I'm guessing turbulent flow does occur at some point, perhaps on fast changes of direction, but I'd like some confirmation of this. I'd also like to know if we are in a regime where changing the oil viscosity is going to have much of an impact on where the 'pack' effect will kick in?
02-09-2011, 05:56 PM
#2757
No problem Michael, and thanks Serzoni.
I'm wanting to test the relationship between shock oil weight and spring rate in the pod movement. I realise that in general a softer pod equates to mover rear-end grip up to a point, but I'm trying to work out when I want to change oil and when I want to change springs. My previous 12th was a T-bar car, and I pretty much just ran the thinnest T-bar I could get away with, so this is somewhat new to me.
I'm guessing the answer has to do primarily with how the car behaves under change of directions, as well as straight line stability. My current feel is that a heavier oil will make the car slower to change directions, more stable in a straight line and more progressive in its turning, but it would also reduce overall rear end traction. Whereas a harder side-spring might make the car twitchier while reducing rear-end grip, without affecting change of direction too much. All of this assumes that the rear-end isn't so soft as to be lifting a wheel. An I on the right track here?
There is a particular spot on one track I race on that I have trouble with. Following a fast section, there is a right-hand hair-pin corner followed 5 m later by a left hand hair-pin and then a faster left hander. The car is unstable under acceleration out of the left-hand hair-pin and wants to spin. Could this mean the oil is too viscous, or do I just need a softer side-spring?
(The car takes those hair-pins better with the 5 degree king-pin angle, but it reduces high-speed steering that I need elsewhere on the track).
Another thing, Hooke's law means that the spring should produce a constant resistance through the majority of its range of movement, but the damping/resistance in the shock depends upon whether the flow of the oil through the piston is laminar or turbulent. Turbulent flow should occur if the shock is compressed quickly, normally that would be called 'pack', and would mean a greatly increased resistance to movement at that point. However, I don't have a good feel for which regime the side-shock is in most of the time.
It's a small shock with small pistons, so I'm guessing turbulent flow does occur at some point, perhaps on fast changes of direction, but I'd like some confirmation of this. I'd also like to know if we are in a regime where changing the oil viscosity is going to have much of an impact on where the 'pack' effect will kick in?
I'm wanting to test the relationship between shock oil weight and spring rate in the pod movement. I realise that in general a softer pod equates to mover rear-end grip up to a point, but I'm trying to work out when I want to change oil and when I want to change springs. My previous 12th was a T-bar car, and I pretty much just ran the thinnest T-bar I could get away with, so this is somewhat new to me.
I'm guessing the answer has to do primarily with how the car behaves under change of directions, as well as straight line stability. My current feel is that a heavier oil will make the car slower to change directions, more stable in a straight line and more progressive in its turning, but it would also reduce overall rear end traction. Whereas a harder side-spring might make the car twitchier while reducing rear-end grip, without affecting change of direction too much. All of this assumes that the rear-end isn't so soft as to be lifting a wheel. An I on the right track here?
There is a particular spot on one track I race on that I have trouble with. Following a fast section, there is a right-hand hair-pin corner followed 5 m later by a left hand hair-pin and then a faster left hander. The car is unstable under acceleration out of the left-hand hair-pin and wants to spin. Could this mean the oil is too viscous, or do I just need a softer side-spring?
(The car takes those hair-pins better with the 5 degree king-pin angle, but it reduces high-speed steering that I need elsewhere on the track).
Another thing, Hooke's law means that the spring should produce a constant resistance through the majority of its range of movement, but the damping/resistance in the shock depends upon whether the flow of the oil through the piston is laminar or turbulent. Turbulent flow should occur if the shock is compressed quickly, normally that would be called 'pack', and would mean a greatly increased resistance to movement at that point. However, I don't have a good feel for which regime the side-shock is in most of the time.
It's a small shock with small pistons, so I'm guessing turbulent flow does occur at some point, perhaps on fast changes of direction, but I'd like some confirmation of this. I'd also like to know if we are in a regime where changing the oil viscosity is going to have much of an impact on where the 'pack' effect will kick in?
(sorry if you posted and I missed it)
btw I have never heard of heat causing problems with the dampers on an R5, and I've raced in some fairly hot conditions.
02-09-2011, 06:54 PM
#2759
Complete set-up: ok, sure, it changes a little (tyres and caster mainly) depending upon the exact conditions, because this is an open outdoor track on rough tarmac. But here is my standard set-up for this track after 3 meetings with the car: Motor: 6.5 turn, mild timing; Gearing 65/30; Tyres: (generally 46-44 mm) Exceed Hard Front, Exceed Medium Rear/CRC Pink (have also used CRC purple fronts with the pink rears, but that's a little twitchy); Caster: 1.8 degrees, Camber: 2.5 degrees right wheel, 1 degree left wheel (otherwise the tyres cone so much my trim is badly off at the end of the race – there are 3 high speed left handers on the circuit, and not much in the way of turning right); upper-arm mounts: 10 degrees; Side-spring: silver; side shock: 30 wt; centre shock 30 wt blue spring, top mounting position; ~ 1.5mm droop; body: Protoform Aston-Martin Lola; front and rear track is standard; battery forward; slight toe-out; ride-height: 3.5 mm; front springs 0.020; diff: fairly tight.
Edit: I assume you want the complete set-up to help diagnose the hair-pin problem, which I appreciate. I'm most interested in the fundamentals of oil vs. springs though; give a man a fish etc.
Last edited by Radio Active; 02-10-2011 at 04:28 AM.
02-10-2011, 01:07 PM
#2760
Like I say, I didn't have any problems in 40 degree heat, it was just something I was told.
Complete set-up: ok, sure, it changes a little (tyres and caster mainly) depending upon the exact conditions, because this is an open outdoor track on rough tarmac. But here is my standard set-up for this track after 3 meetings with the car: Motor: 6.5 turn, mild timing; Gearing 65/30; Tyres: (generally 46-44 mm) Exceed Hard Front, Exceed Medium Rear/CRC Pink (have also used CRC purple fronts with the pink rears, but that's a little twitchy); Caster: 1.8 degrees, Camber: 2.5 degrees right wheel, 1 degree left wheel (otherwise the tyres cone so much my trim is badly off at the end of the race – there are 3 high speed left handers on the circuit, and not much in the way of turning right); upper-arm mounts: 10 degrees; Side-spring: silver; side shock: 30 wt; centre shock 30 wt blue spring, top mounting position; ~ 1.5mm droop; body: Protoform Aston-Martin Lola; front and rear track is standard; battery forward; slight toe-out; ride-height: 3.5 mm; front springs 0.020; diff: fairly tight.
Edit: I assume you want the complete set-up to help diagnose the hair-pin problem, which I appreciate. I'm most interested in the fundamentals of oil vs. springs though; give a man a fish etc.
Complete set-up: ok, sure, it changes a little (tyres and caster mainly) depending upon the exact conditions, because this is an open outdoor track on rough tarmac. But here is my standard set-up for this track after 3 meetings with the car: Motor: 6.5 turn, mild timing; Gearing 65/30; Tyres: (generally 46-44 mm) Exceed Hard Front, Exceed Medium Rear/CRC Pink (have also used CRC purple fronts with the pink rears, but that's a little twitchy); Caster: 1.8 degrees, Camber: 2.5 degrees right wheel, 1 degree left wheel (otherwise the tyres cone so much my trim is badly off at the end of the race – there are 3 high speed left handers on the circuit, and not much in the way of turning right); upper-arm mounts: 10 degrees; Side-spring: silver; side shock: 30 wt; centre shock 30 wt blue spring, top mounting position; ~ 1.5mm droop; body: Protoform Aston-Martin Lola; front and rear track is standard; battery forward; slight toe-out; ride-height: 3.5 mm; front springs 0.020; diff: fairly tight.
Edit: I assume you want the complete set-up to help diagnose the hair-pin problem, which I appreciate. I'm most interested in the fundamentals of oil vs. springs though; give a man a fish etc.
But my strategy is K.I.S.S.
It's usually the simple things that keep a car from handling somewhat neutral.
Your camber idea sounds odd, I would think you would have inconsistent handling, and tweak with that setup.
If there are bumps on the track you may consider raising the ride height.
imo, the 12R5 with 1s can work very well at 4 to 5mm ride height.
This can help the car to roll through the corner more, instead of scrubbing the front tires so much.
Obviously if traction roll is an issue a lower ride height is necessary.
Have you considered something like a Jaco yellow or Grey on the rear with lilac or PinkX2 up front ?
The kit setup on the R5/5.1 should work well everywhere with the "right tires"
And fine tune from there.
For the dampers, I have found 20wt side and 30wt center to work well as a base setup.
remember to replace the o-ring often (every rebuild) to keep them working consistent.