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Old 07-03-2008, 10:12 PM   #601
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well, that's the way they do it in the full size lemans and the american lemans series... we are also debating on doing something similar, except that for GT we are using sport grade tourers (hpi sprint, cyclone s, etc) and 15t motors to keep the cost of entry low, while GTP would use the pancars (235mm hopefully!) with brushless and lipo.
As long as the track can accomodate both type of vehicles and the driving is clean things should run smooth.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:22 PM   #602
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hmmm. I have debated on other threads about mixing classes and everyone says it does not work. Looks like at least someone made it work!
SO what is the skinny on this...everyone like it?
You guys have a website?
The concept came from Ken Jones who is the owner of BBR Scale Motorsports. BBR was very active in the production of bodies all the way up until 1/10th, 235mm pan cars died off. Ken came to us and said that because the interest in 1/10th pan cars increasing, he made his NOS bodies available to us at a greatly reduced price and said that he would pay for the trophies for a series. We hammered out the concept, had a few races to test the concept and then with a few changes, started the series. In an attempt to gain interest and support for the series we opened it up to several different chassis/motor/battery/body combinations. This allows racers to jump in without adding too much cost. As mentioned, we even allowed touring cars as long as they use foam tires, GT bodies and the same power formulas. I would venture to guess that as more 200mm chassis are produced and purchased, we may see the 235mm chassis fade away. There are not very many options for a Sports Prototype body in the 200mm size which will force the movement to just GT only.

I have to say that it is really cool to see the mix of chassis and bodies on the track at the same time. The power formulas are the same for both the Sports prototype and GT but because the aerodynamics on the GT bodies are not as good, their speeds are lower but not so much slower as to make them obstacles on the track. The GT guys are racing each other and the Sports Prototype guys are racing each other. It makes for some interesting tactics on the track.

We donít have a website. We just post on www.rcracing.com under the BBR LeMans Cup thread.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:39 PM   #603
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what is all this gt10, pro10, worldGT stuff? a resurgence in pan is a great thing either way, but is this a 'wide' vs 'narrow' deal?

R
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:02 PM   #604
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I 've been watching the threads on the GT/Pro10 cars and it always gets brought back why no lipo.

First
LiPO is not the problem! The motors are. When the Brushless motors are wound higher than a crawler and still cary more speed than needed that is an obvious problem.

Manufactures need to ingore the rules for once and make a BL motor that works in 1:12 and 1:10 pan cars for stock racing.

My solution is just make a 480 sensored BL motor and stuff it into a oversized 540 Can. This will allow deeper ribs for cooling, would lighten the motor and reduce the torque of the motor bring the rollouts back where they should be 3.00" and lower.

exactly what i said in another thread but also, someone could start working on 3.7v speedos and up the voltage for the bec...
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:23 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Crashby View Post
The concept came from Ken Jones who is the owner of BBR Scale Motorsports. BBR was very active in the production of bodies all the way up until 1/10th, 235mm pan cars died off. Ken came to us and said that because the interest in 1/10th pan cars increasing, he made his NOS bodies available to us at a greatly reduced price and said that he would pay for the trophies for a series. We hammered out the concept, had a few races to test the concept and then with a few changes, started the series. In an attempt to gain interest and support for the series we opened it up to several different chassis/motor/battery/body combinations. This allows racers to jump in without adding too much cost. As mentioned, we even allowed touring cars as long as they use foam tires, GT bodies and the same power formulas. I would venture to guess that as more 200mm chassis are produced and purchased, we may see the 235mm chassis fade away. There are not very many options for a Sports Prototype body in the 200mm size which will force the movement to just GT only.

I have to say that it is really cool to see the mix of chassis and bodies on the track at the same time. The power formulas are the same for both the Sports prototype and GT but because the aerodynamics on the GT bodies are not as good, their speeds are lower but not so much slower as to make them obstacles on the track. The GT guys are racing each other and the Sports Prototype guys are racing each other. It makes for some interesting tactics on the track.

We donít have a website. We just post on www.rcracing.com under the BBR LeMans Cup thread.
Hmmm, some outside the box thinking...I like it! Thinking like this is what is good for the hobby...way to go guys and good luck!
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:25 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by ultegrasti View Post
what is all this gt10, pro10, worldGT stuff? a resurgence in pan is a great thing either way, but is this a 'wide' vs 'narrow' deal?

R
Pro10 was teh name for the 10th scale 235mm pan car class that was prevalent through the 80s and 90s in RC before the advent of touring cars.

GT10 was the preliminary name for the class of 200mm 10th scale pan cars that were being developed (from companies like Darkside, CRC, BMI, Associated, Hyperdrive, and CEFX)

World GT is the official name for the 200mm class at the International Indoor Championships in Las Vegas and more than likely will be THE name for the 200mm pan car class from here on out.

this has never been about a "wide vs. narrow" sort of thing, at least in my personal view...now others may see it differently
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:33 AM   #607
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what is all this gt10, pro10, worldGT stuff? a resurgence in pan is a great thing either way, but is this a 'wide' vs 'narrow' deal?

R
Nope. People have short memories... The TC class started with people converting their 10th Buggies to track cars. Tamiya's TC kits made the class more attractive, and once IFMAR released Rules in 1995, all the manufacturers made cars. The 250mm, ex-buggy cars simply died out because the 190mm cars were better, more widely available, and promoted.

Why does everything have to be one thing or the other, why can't it be a lot of people getting together to have fun? It doesn't matter that there might always be four classes of car - the more choice, the more people entered. This approach hasn't done any of the LMP series' any harm, not Le Mans itself. Chill, people! It's a pan car class, and that's about the only Rule we need! The type of car that goes best, or sells best, will become the most popular.

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exactly what i said in another thread but also, someone could start working on 3.7v speedos and up the voltage for the bec...
They will have to work very hard. This would be a minority market, and the answer would be to get a receiver pack.

The LiPo enthusiasts will be at a disadvantage in Pan Cars. The light weight of the LiPo works against the handling of the cars. Where this has been solved (BMIs LiPo-weight) you will need to use 7.4v, and where this is used you will need a 22.5 motor to make the car driveable. This is going to be one class where LiPo is a disadvantage!

Still, with the return of cells that work as they used to (EnerG) NiMh owners are getting to be as lazy as LiPo owners, so there isn't that problem any more. Using light cars, less-powerful motors and fewer cells, the packs don't go off either.

This class will get big because it is cheaper by far than TC, easier to set up, much more rewarding for a good driver, and equally at home indoors or out.
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Old 07-05-2008, 05:15 PM   #608
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does anyone use foam front bumpers on the new 200mm pan cars? if so, where to get them?
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:16 PM   #609
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Well I finally did it, my first run on a real track nothing spectacular but it was good. Unfortunately my day got cut very short as after 30 minutes I lost one of the tweak springs and I am new to this, I have not built up my extra parts drawer yet. On that note what are some of the common parts that I should keep in stock for the gen x 10? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Well here is a very short video and I should have zoomed in on the track but you can still see the car 3 laps so be patient as it takes me a bit to get back around twice before the video ends.. Now I shot this at the end of the straight away corner.

P.S. Nitro guys were cool with me since I was the only guy with an electric there but I did catch some guys attention and were impressed with the car.
I will get video next weekend from the second angle where the nitro guys are going into the straight.

Here is my video shot today
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wRGFLUzPBTI
and here is a different angle of the track some time ago.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xYVOdW6Dt9M
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:10 AM   #610
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LowET

You can use just about any foam bumper for 200mm pan cars.

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Custom works
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:51 AM   #611
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They will have to work very hard. This would be a minority market
Slower, if you group 1:12 oval and road course with 1:10 oval and road course the market is more than large enough to demand a motor line for stock racing with lipo.

The problem is that when a company like Novak tired to make a motor to reduce speeds they physically hit a limit the the maximum number of windings that can be stuffed into a can under the current rules. This makes the 21.5 motor the botom limit for 540 brushless motors.

There used to be a day when stock and mod moters were physically different. You could not swap a stock arm with a mod arm. Brushes were laydown not standup. The bushings could not be replaced with beartings ect ect.

Under the rules now the only thing brushless motor makers can do is just change the number of windings in a MOD motor to try to make it slower. The problem with winding up the motors is that the motors are gaining alot of torque and it becomes really expensive to buy Longer motor pods, smaller spurs, and pinions that are just as big as the spur.

If the rules were ignored for once and the engineers were given a set of goals to make a lower powered motor that would bring the RPM and torque to the levels of a CO27 motor alot of racers would be very happy to use it with LiPO. On this path development they would probably discover that this goal will be acomplished by a smaller rotor and lower wind count. For this reason I suggested make a 480 motor and place in a 540 can. For shits and grins, a 13.5 mongoose 380 motor could have the endbell removed and replaced with a custom 540 sized endbell and the results would be close to what racers want in a stock/lipo solution for pan cars.
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:06 PM   #612
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Slower, if you group 1:12 oval and road course with 1:10 oval and road course the market is more than large enough to demand a motor line for stock racing with lipo.

The problem is that when a company like Novak tired to make a motor to reduce speeds they physically hit a limit the the maximum number of windings that can be stuffed into a can under the current rules. This makes the 21.5 motor the botom limit for 540 brushless motors.

There used to be a day when stock and mod moters were physically different. You could not swap a stock arm with a mod arm. Brushes were laydown not standup. The bushings could not be replaced with beartings ect ect.

Under the rules now the only thing brushless motor makers can do is just change the number of windings in a MOD motor to try to make it slower. The problem with winding up the motors is that the motors are gaining alot of torque and it becomes really expensive to buy Longer motor pods, smaller spurs, and pinions that are just as big as the spur.

If the rules were ignored for once and the engineers were given a set of goals to make a lower powered motor that would bring the RPM and torque to the levels of a CO27 motor alot of racers would be very happy to use it with LiPO. On this path development they would probably discover that this goal will be acomplished by a smaller rotor and lower wind count. For this reason I suggested make a 480 motor and place in a 540 can. For shits and grins, a 13.5 mongoose 380 motor could have the endbell removed and replaced with a custom 540 sized endbell and the results would be close to what racers want in a stock/lipo solution for pan cars.
Good points, and then we still have the weight/handling problems to sort out - and that's a lot harder. If you want LiPo, stay in TC and Off-Road - pan cars aren't going LiPo any time soon.

There is another answer - stay with BR, then you can have the performance you want (without the handling!! ) with LiPo. No?
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:09 PM   #613
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Ok as long as we are settled on that for now lets get behind WGT and get out on the track in force!
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:05 PM   #614
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Anyone know where to find a couple of the Protoform Corvette C6 bodies? Having a hard time finding any.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:22 PM   #615
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Would that be this one. More pics here. This is a local hobby shop order.
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